CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[minazoe]

police have ruled out homicide? or did I misread you?

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

@Pumphouse363 - If Jon's phone were found in his pocket, as I believe it was-- doesn't that rule out foul play or homicide by outside parties? If someone were to force them down a brutal trail and leave them stranded with little water (which is a brilliant plot for a detective story, by the way. ) or attack them on the trail, it seems that any n'er-do-well would confiscate or destroy the phone. Another factor against this idea, is how very unknown this trail is, even by locals.

 

[WillieMac]

Thank you for that detailed explanation. That’s why I think we need to consider the reason the media thought it important to report that they had uploaded a picture of the backpack on social media - but nobody seems to have actually seen it and it wasn’t in any of the news reports. We are still no wiser as to how Miju was carried nor how she was found.

I remember seeing that picture. I haven't followed any discussions about this particular case from any other SM sites or anywhere so I am fairly certain it must have been from a link shared to either the 1st thread or maybe one of the earlier pages of the second thread. It really was just a post of the carrier on the table as I recall, along with the post stating something to the effect that they were ready to go - or something like that. I don’t recall there having been any big mystery around it. ...well, other than there had been some misunderstandings stated by some users here who hadn't actually seen the pic and weren't sure if the baby was actually in it when the pic was taken. (It was not.) If the link is no longer in one of the threads, it must have been removed or edited in some fashion. I guess if the pic is no longer visible on any of their SM accounts, that might seem odd. ...unless the pic i saw was a screenshot of the post and the post was actually shared only with their "friend" or a smaller audience somehow.

 

[Officer Dibble]

That’s one of the reasons I posted the question as to whether LE had followed the entire trail but I think it was removed by admin. If they saw footprints going towards Hites Cove they would have to follow all the way round the loop to reach the area where Jon, Ellen and Miju were discovered. Would they do that in the dark? Alternatively, they may have only gone so far on the HC trail and decided to take the SL trail from the same starting point and discovered the family just one and a half miles away. I wonder they didn’t send somebody in both directions but, I believe they said there were no footprints in the direction of SL - so no need for them to check in that direction. Another possibility is that they couldn’t see sufficiently in the dark and waited until daybreak to commence the search? MOO

and perhaps in the dark didn't want to add LE footprints so they could follow the footprints at daylight?

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

@Pumphouse363 - If Jon's phone were found in his pocket, as I believe it was-- doesn't that rule out foul play or homicide by outside parties? If someone were to force them down a brutal trail and leave them stranded with little water (which is a brilliant plot for a detective story, by the way. ) or attack them on the trail, it seems that any n'er-do-well would confiscate or destroy the phone. Another factor against this idea, is how very unknown this trail is, even by locals.

If a phone is in an area that's known to not be able to receive any kind of signal then I guess that would render the phone useless anyway.

JMO

 

[Pumphouse363]

If a phone is in an area that's known to not be able to receive any kind of signal then I guess that would render the phone useless anyway.

JMO

I believe you can still take pics and leave messages on your phone. It could just provide further proof of their whereabouts to help family come to terms with what has happened. No stone unturned.

 

[Pumphouse363]

I remember seeing that picture. I haven't followed any discussions about this particular case from any other SM sites or anywhere so I am fairly certain it must have been from a link shared to either the 1st thread or maybe one of the earlier pages of the second thread. It really was just a post of the carrier on the table as I recall, along with the post stating something to the effect that they were ready to go - or something like that. I don’t recall there having been any big mystery around it. ...well, other than there had been some misunderstandings stated by some users here who hadn't actually seen the pic and weren't sure if the baby was actually in it when the pic was taken. (It was not.) If the link is no longer in one of the threads, it must have been removed or edited in some fashion. I guess if the pic is no longer visible on any of their SM accounts, that might seem odd. ...unless the pic i saw was a screenshot of the post and the post was actually shared only with their "friend" or a smaller audience somehow.

MOO The only evidence we have that Jon/Ellen/Miju were ostensibly alive and well and going on a hike is a picture of a backpack at 6.45am and a sighting of their vehicle at 7.45am I would say that the photo of the bag is very important considering it’s 50 per cent of tangible evidence they were going on a hike at all that day. It was also mentioned that Jon was researching the HC trail the day before (Saturday) How do LE know that if they didn’t have access to the phone contents at the time? It has been noted that the phone was sent to the FBI to access the information but that was after it was reported Jon accessed Alltrails.

 

[Parsnip]

MOO The only evidence we have that Jon/Ellen/Miju were ostensibly alive and well and going on a hike is a picture of a backpack at 6.45am and a sighting of their vehicle at 7.45am I would say that the photo of the bag is very important considering it’s 50 per cent of tangible evidence they were going on a hike at all that day. It was also mentioned that Jon was researching the HC trail the day before (Saturday) How do LE know that if they didn’t have access to the phone contents at the time? It has been noted that the phone was sent to the FBI to access the information but that was after it was reported Jon accessed Alltrails.

MOO:

I also think the backpack photo is key, but you know that already.

As for the AllTrails info, JG may have searched it on another device…laptop, desktop, tablet, etc. If LE were let into or accessed the home, they could have discovered the HC search at that time, perhaps with help from a friend. This could also explain the source of the backpack photo and various other photos shared with LE and the media.

ETA: We have no reason to believe EC’s phone was with the family on the trail. It may have been in the car or in their home. Maybe JG searched AllTrails on it? And IG posts/photos were accessed from it?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I remember seeing that picture. I haven't followed any discussions about this particular case from any other SM sites or anywhere so I am fairly certain it must have been from a link shared to either the 1st thread or maybe one of the earlier pages of the second thread. It really was just a post of the carrier on the table as I recall, along with the post stating something to the effect that they were ready to go - or something like that. I don’t recall there having been any big mystery around it. ...well, other than there had been some misunderstandings stated by some users here who hadn't actually seen the pic and weren't sure if the baby was actually in it when the pic was taken. (It was not.) If the link is no longer in one of the threads, it must have been removed or edited in some fashion. I guess if the pic is no longer visible on any of their SM accounts, that might seem odd. ...unless the pic i saw was a screenshot of the post and the post was actually shared only with their "friend" or a smaller audience somehow.

I saw it too. As you said, it said something like ‘ready for the day ‘ or something. I’ll keep trying to find it.

 

[NSamuelle]

I believe you can still take pics and leave messages on your phone. It could just provide further proof of their whereabouts to help family come to terms with what has happened. No stone unturned.

The phone would also have a record of any attempts to call 911 even if there was no reception. Even if service was very bad, I’d be holding that phone over my head on speaker and trying to gain a signal for as long as I could if there was an emergency. If they had even a few minutes of awareness that something terrible was happening, I would be very surprised if no one attempted to call emergency services or attempted a text.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

MOO The only evidence we have that Jon/Ellen/Miju were ostensibly alive and well and going on a hike is a picture of a backpack at 6.45am and a sighting of their vehicle at 7.45am I would say that the photo of the bag is very important considering it’s 50 per cent of tangible evidence they were going on a hike at all that day. It was also mentioned that Jon was researching the HC trail the day before (Saturday) How do LE know that if they didn’t have access to the phone contents at the time? It has been noted that the phone was sent to the FBI to access the information but that was after it was reported Jon accessed Alltrails.

I don't see any way they got 1.5 miles out that trail and 1000' downhill without walking there- they're hikers equipped for a hike, with their baby in a backpack and their dog. The scene as described by the sheriff is a scene of despair, with no evidence of a crime. Nature can be unforgiving. The significance of the new baby carrier is it allowed them to do some real hiking again by shifting the weight to his back, no mystery, it represented more freedom. I had to go a step farther to continue our summer backpacking trips, here's a photo of the homemade carriers we used to get our kids to a base camp in the Emigrant. We hired packers to carry our gear, and our wives rode horses. This was a 12 mile hike in, with a couple thousand feet of elevation gain, but in cooler mountain air. MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

I don't see any way they got 1.5 miles out that trail and 1000' downhill without walking there- they're hikers equipped for a hike, with their baby in a backpack and their dog. The scene as described by the sheriff is a scene of despair, with no evidence of a crime. Nature can be unforgiving. The significance of the new baby carrier is it allowed them to do some real hiking again by shifting the weight to his back, no mystery, it represented more freedom. I had to go a step farther to continue our summer backpacking trips, here's a photo of the homemade carriers we used to get our kids to a base camp in the Emigrant. We hired packers to carry our gear, and our wives rode horses. This was a 12 mile hike in, with a couple thousand feet of elevation gain, but in cooler mountain air. MOO

I don’t think this compares with the current events at all. As you state you had someone to carry your gear and your wives rode horses. Two men carrying the children. This is simply a man and his wife with his 12 month old child and a dog.

 

[jonjon747]

I don't see any way they got 1.5 miles out that trail and 1000' downhill without walking there- they're hikers equipped for a hike, with their baby in a backpack and their dog. The scene as described by the sheriff is a scene of despair, with no evidence of a crime. Nature can be unforgiving. The significance of the new baby carrier is it allowed them to do some real hiking again by shifting the weight to his back, no mystery, it represented more freedom. I had to go a step farther to continue our summer backpacking trips, here's a photo of the homemade carriers we used to get our kids to a base camp in the Emigrant. We hired packers to carry our gear, and our wives rode horses. This was a 12 mile hike in, with a couple thousand feet of elevation gain, but in cooler mountain air. MOO

If my memory serves me right, there were family's footprints discovered near the trailhead of HC.
Knowing that the trail ground there are of typical dirt, soiled ground, more footprints should've been discovered.
Have the investigators located any more footprints elsewhere?
We just don't know for how long or how far the family was hiking without a single trace of evidence leading up to the SL trail.
Without any further update in this regard, it's all just a speculation.

 

[Pumphouse363]

police have ruled out homicide? or did I misread you?

The whole thing is very ambiguous. Some reports saying homicide has been ruled out - others that other than shooting or stabbing all options are still open.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I don’t think this compares with the current events at all. As you state you had someone to carry your gear and your wives rode horses. Two men carrying the children. This is simply a man and his wife with his 12 month old child and a dog.

It's not a comparison. It's evidence that I have a lot of experience with children, backpacks, and wilderness. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was one of those people who claims to have relevant knowledge, but doesn't really seem to.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

I don't see any way they got 1.5 miles out that trail and 1000' downhill without walking there- they're hikers equipped for a hike, with their baby in a backpack and their dog. The scene as described by the sheriff is a scene of despair, with no evidence of a crime. Nature can be unforgiving. The significance of the new baby carrier is it allowed them to do some real hiking again by shifting the weight to his back, no mystery, it represented more freedom. I had to go a step farther to continue our summer backpacking trips, here's a photo of the homemade carriers we used to get our kids to a base camp in the Emigrant. We hired packers to carry our gear, and our wives rode horses. This was a 12 mile hike in, with a couple thousand feet of elevation gain, but in cooler mountain air. MOO

How creative!

 

[minazoe]

there are a lot of very , no extremely intelligent people that could venture out on a warm summer morning and never give a thought to the weather..but in light of the extreme temps I would think many warnings would be out in the media about dangerous life threatening heat. But it could happen..maybe something happened like the dog got lost/loose or something and it prolonged their time on the trail, maybe it wasn't meant to be a long hike into the afternoon.. mOO

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

I don't see any way they got 1.5 miles out that trail and 1000' downhill without walking there- they're hikers equipped for a hike, with their baby in a backpack and their dog. The scene as described by the sheriff is a scene of despair, with no evidence of a crime. Nature can be unforgiving. The significance of the new baby carrier is it allowed them to do some real hiking again by shifting the weight to his back, no mystery, it represented more freedom. I had to go a step farther to continue our summer backpacking trips, here's a photo of the homemade carriers we used to get our kids to a base camp in the Emigrant. We hired packers to carry our gear, and our wives rode horses. This was a 12 mile hike in, with a couple thousand feet of elevation gain, but in cooler mountain air. MOO

That photo is amazing! That's some weight to be carrying on your back. I bet the kids felt like royalty haha

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

there are a lot of very , no extremely intelligent people that could venture out on a warm summer morning and never give a thought to the weather..but in light of the extreme temps I would think many warnings would be out in the media about dangerous life threatening heat. But it could happen..maybe something happened like the dog got lost/loose or something and it prolonged their time on the trail, maybe it wasn't meant to be a long hike into the afternoon.. mOO

I still wonder if they lost the car keys. Half way back up the hill they realise and then have to spend time retracing their steps knowing that it was pointless getting to the vehicle without the keys because:

1. There's no phone signal up there so they can't phone for help or for a lift back home for the spare set of keys
2. There's no shade from the sun/heat at the vehicle so they can't shelter alongside the truck until a passing vehicle or hiker sees them
3. It's very remote, so fairly unlikely someone would pass the vehicle whom they could ask for help

Maybe they had no option but to try and find the keys that they'd dropped en route. This exhausted them further, exposed them to more heat, potentially caused them to use up more of their water supply, and lengthened the total time they were out there.

Just MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

I’m sure you are competent and

It's not a comparison. It's evidence that I have a lot of experience with children, backpacks, and wilderness. I wouldn't want anyone to think I was one of those people who claims to have relevant knowledge, but doesn't really seem to.

Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. Let’s suppose that Jon and Ellen have similar expertise. Would they have gone on the hike that’s been suggested, in that heat, with a 12 month old child and a dog? Would they attempt the SL trail without telling friends or relatives where they were going and when they expected to be back?