CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[MrsEmmaPeel]

DP. sorry.

 

[Pumphouse363]

In the 2007 local adventure story I posted a while back and will repost again, the writer mentions that the trail down to the river accommodates 4-wheel drive vehicles. He encounters two men camping at the river, who drive up the trail in their Jeep. I would assume LE would see tracks if a vehicle had travelled the path recently. But that's one scenario I haven't heard discussed, and it would be interesting to ask LE that question. Imagine if nefarious individuals encountered the family on the way down, and like @Pumphouse363 has written, they feared going up the same way, or individuals drove the family down to the river against their will and dropped them off. I realize this is grasping at straws but had to toss it out. Perhaps someone here knows if vehicles are still allowed on the HC and SC trails. IMO the family died from heat-exhaustion, but it's hard to imagine why they set forth on a trail for a Sunday outing that locals will not set foot on in July and August.

I know someone who has driven down on a quad bike very recently - obviously before the closures - and has filmed it.

 

[Pumphouse363]

In the 2007 local adventure story I posted a while back and will repost again, the writer mentions that the trail down to the river accommodates 4-wheel drive vehicles. He encounters two men camping at the river, who drive up the trail in their Jeep. I would assume LE would see tracks if a vehicle had travelled the path recently. But that's one scenario I haven't heard discussed, and it would be interesting to ask LE that question. Imagine if nefarious individuals encountered the family on the way down, and like @Pumphouse363 has written, they feared going up the same way, or individuals drove the family down to the river against their will and dropped them off. I realize this is grasping at straws but had to toss it out. Perhaps someone here knows if vehicles are still allowed on the HC and SC trails. IMO the family died from heat-exhaustion, but it's hard to imagine why they set forth on a trail for a Sunday outing that locals will not set foot on in July and August.

I know someone who has driven down on a quad bike very recently - obviously before the closures - and has filmed it.

@Pumphouse363, what do you make of Jonathan being found sitting up?

I can’t quite imagine his posture but, if you were suffering from heat stroke, would you sit down? Or fall down? It’s hard to fathom - but I don’t want to appear macabre requesting details of exactly how JD was sitting up. If heat stroke happens very quickly would you have time to remove the back pack and place the child carefully on the ground whilst keeping hold of the dog’s leash? Alternatively, would you let go of the leash and the dog would run away? If the dog had already died, why was it on a leash at all? If the dog was still alive wouldn’t it have tried to pull free thereby pulling Jon out of an upright position?

 

[Pumphouse363]

In the 2007 local adventure story I posted a while back and will repost again, the writer mentions that the trail down to the river accommodates 4-wheel drive vehicles. He encounters two men camping at the river, who drive up the trail in their Jeep. I would assume LE would see tracks if a vehicle had travelled the path recently. But that's one scenario I haven't heard discussed, and it would be interesting to ask LE that question. Imagine if nefarious individuals encountered the family on the way down, and like @Pumphouse363 has written, they feared going up the same way, or individuals drove the family down to the river against their will and dropped them off. I realize this is grasping at straws but had to toss it out. Perhaps someone here knows if vehicles are still allowed on the HC and SC trails. IMO the family died from heat-exhaustion, but it's hard to imagine why they set forth on a trail for a Sunday outing that locals will not set foot on in July and August.

I know someone who has driven down on a quad bike very recently - obviously before the closures - and has filmed it.

@Pumphouse363, what do you make of Jonathan being found sitting up?

I can’t quite imagine his posture but, if you were suffering from heat stroke, would you sit down? Or fall down? It’s hard to fathom - but I don’t want to appear macabre requesting details of exactly how JD was sitting up. If heat stroke happens very quickly would you have time to remove the back pack and place the child carefully on the ground whilst keeping hold of the dog’s leash? Alternatively, would you let go of the leash and the dog would run away? If the dog had already died, why was it on a leash at all? If the dog was still alive wouldn’t it have tried to pull free thereby pulling Jon out of an upright position?

 

[lotus777]

Are there signs on these trails warning walkers? how long and difficult they are? how dangerous they are in particular weather conditions? recommended equipment like water and radios or sat phones or emergency beacons?

in australia as a minimum our trails are often assigned a number as a difficulty level indicating how experienced a hiker you should be to tackle it, and a sign put up nearby as well as on the internet

Unfortunately there's no national hiking trail rating system in the U.S. I believe there is a mountain biking trail rating system, and some (a few?) individual parks have their own rating systems, like Shenandoah in Virginia. Places like Death Valley have signs warning about the heat, but from what I've seen heat warning signs aren't very common in less traveled areas.

 

[RedHaus]

This is an interesting possibility except for the fact that they didn’t set off down the SL trail - and most certainly would not have chosen to do so. MOO The reports are that their footprints led towards the HC trail. LE search and rescue only checked the SL trail when the backup team arrived in daylight. MOO Can you imagine looking down from the top of SL to the river at the bottom and even considering going further down? I feel sure if they’d only gone a mile and a half they would have returned to the vehicle - not continued on. MOO

Thank you, @Pumphouse363 for your response. I do not disagree with you at all. In fact, I had offered in my 'scenario' that perhaps the family went down the SL trail... "...as revisited recently, forced to flee to 'safety'." My last scenario post was not intended to try to solve for the "why" they were on the SL trail. I fear we'll never know that answer. I was puzzling with the positions the family were found in and why... so that is why I've postulated that perhaps EC succumbed first on their way down the trail.

 

[RedHaus]

In the 2007 local adventure story I posted a while back and will repost again, the writer mentions that the trail down to the river accommodates 4-wheel drive vehicles. He encounters two men camping at the river, who drive up the trail in their Jeep. I would assume LE would see tracks if a vehicle had travelled the path recently. But that's one scenario I haven't heard discussed, and it would be interesting to ask LE that question. Imagine if nefarious individuals encountered the family on the way down, and like @Pumphouse363 has written, they feared going up the same way, or individuals drove the family down to the river against their will and dropped them off. I realize this is grasping at straws but had to toss it out. Perhaps someone here knows if vehicles are still allowed on the HC and SC trails. IMO the family died from heat-exhaustion, but it's hard to imagine why they set forth on a trail for a Sunday outing that locals will not set foot on in July and August.

Yes, @MrsEmmaPeel,

Since I read your 2007 adventure story (same year BTW that fellow., 65 yo Mr. Jerde, was found mysteriously naked and dead on a trail near Hite's Cove and his rental car 25 miles away - see my prior post), I have considered how nefarious people in that area move about between and to/from grow operations in the county - ATVs of course!.

I have wondered as well, since there was such a huge grow ops bust (37K plants) in the county 8/9-10/2021, just 5 days before the family's "hike", if a grow operation near those trails decided to clear house... meaning, harvest early, pack up camp, move out staff and equipment, etc. to avoid getting caught too. And perhaps it was that kind of large group of nefarious individuals that the family may have accidentally encountered that fateful day.

What happened next of course is up for imagination - but it might explain odd findings LE may have at hand (e.g. prints, tracks). And of course, the only reason I continue to contemplate this kind of scenario (among others) is because it is so hard to believe, as @Pumphouse363 reminds us, the family purposely took the SL trail up or down.

IMO.

ETA: that Mr. Jerde was dead, to be more complete.

 

[Officer Dibble]

It's hard to keep up with so many posts every day. Another week has gone by. Can anyone confirm if there is still no more news? Thank you.

 

[RedHaus]

It's hard to keep up with so many posts every day. Another week has gone by. Can anyone confirm if there is still no more news? Thank you.

No new news.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Yes, @MrsEmmaPeel,

Since I read your 2007 adventure story (same year BTW that fellow., 65 yo Mr. Jerde, was found mysteriously naked and dead on a trail near Hite's Cove and his rental car 25 miles away - see my prior post), I have considered how nefarious people in that area move about between and to/from grow operations in the county - ATVs of course!.

I have wondered as well, since there was such a huge grow ops bust (37K plants) in the county 8/9-10/2021, just 5 days before the family's "hike", I wonder if a grow operation near those trails decided to clear house... meaning, harvest early, pack up camp, move out staff and equipment, etc. to avoid getting caught too. And perhaps it was that kind of large group of nefarious individuals that the family may have accidentally encountered that fateful day.

What happened next of course is up for imagination - but it might explain odd findings LE may have at hand (e.g. prints, tracks). And of course, the only reason I continue to contemplate this kind of scenario (among others) is because it is so hard to believe, as @Pumphouse363 reminds us, the family purposely took the SL trail up or down.

IMO.

ETA: that Mr. Jerde was dead, to be more complete.

We are now on the same thought waves @RedHaus

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I know someone who has driven down on a quad bike very recently - obviously before the closures - and has filmed it.

I can’t quite imagine his posture but, if you were suffering from heat stroke, would you sit down? Or fall down? It’s hard to fathom - but I don’t want to appear macabre requesting details of exactly how JD was sitting up. If heat stroke happens very quickly would you have time to remove the back pack and place the child carefully on the ground whilst keeping hold of the dog’s leash? Alternatively, would you let go of the leash and the dog would run away? If the dog had already died, why was it on a leash at all? If the dog was still alive wouldn’t it have tried to pull free thereby pulling Jon out of an upright position?

Do you have a link where the dog’s leash is described in such detail? I’ve only read that the dog was found next to their child close to Jonathan.

 

[Officer Dibble]

No new news.

Thanks. Shame. Lets hope of news soon.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Do you have a link where the dog’s leash is described in such detail? I’ve only read that the dog was found next to their child close to Jonathan.

I was imagining the scene not staying it as fact. The only report of Oski in the media is that he was ‘attached’ to Jon - which is a very ambiguous term to use. I think there has been some debate about this issue earlier on this thread.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I was imagining the scene not staying it as fact. The only report of Oski in the media is that he was ‘attached’ to Jon - which is a very ambiguous term to use. I think there has been some debate about this issue earlier on this thread.

BBM

I’m not trying to badger you, but I cannot find an official source mentioning anything about the dog being ‘attached’ or leashed to JG (or that it had a leash or harness attached.) I’ve just googled and scanned over reputable articles.

I think it’s an important point in terms of clues as to what may have happened.

“About 1.5 miles down the switchbacks, around 11 a.m. Tuesday, the team found the family in the middle of the trail. The husband was in a seated position, the child beside him along with the dog, and the wife just a little farther up the hill. Briese (sheriff) said they believe the family was returning to their truck.

A cell phone was in Gerrish’s pocket. There is little to no cell coverage on that section of trail. Investigators are trying to determine if the phone saved any failed text message drafts, attempted calls or photos, along with GPS location data, Briese said.

The family also had a backpack with a bladder that held a small amount of water, the sheriff said. They sent the water for testing. There was no indication whether the family had been swimming, as they would have dried off by the time they were found, he said.”
'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

 

[Pumphouse363]

BBM

I’m not trying to badger you, but I cannot find an official source mentioning anything about the dog being ‘attached’ or leashed to JG (or that it had a leash or harness attached.) I’ve just googled and scanned over reputable articles.

I think it’s an important point in terms of clues as to what may have happened.

“About 1.5 miles down the switchbacks, around 11 a.m. Tuesday, the team found the family in the middle of the trail. The husband was in a seated position, the child beside him along with the dog, and the wife just a little farther up the hill. Briese (sheriff) said they believe the family was returning to their truck.

A cell phone was in Gerrish’s pocket. There is little to no cell coverage on that section of trail. Investigators are trying to determine if the phone saved any failed text message drafts, attempted calls or photos, along with GPS location data, Briese said.

The family also had a backpack with a bladder that held a small amount of water, the sheriff said. They sent the water for testing. There was no indication whether the family had been swimming, as they would have dried off by the time they were found, he said.”
'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

That’s ok - i was reading thread #2 page 10 so it’s probably easier if you check that rather than me repeating it here. There isn’t mention of a leash only the dog reported as being ‘attached’ to Jon which is why I assumed it meant the dog was on a leash. Hope that’s ok?

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Do you have a link where the dog’s leash is described in such detail? I’ve only read that the dog was found next to their child close to Jonathan.

I wondered about that too, I didn't read that detail anywhere. However, I don't think it's particularly significant, either way. In that kind of heat, dogs are panting really hard, not running around, mine would try to walk in my shadow. The leash would be consistent with trying to keep the dog moving as he faltered. From the "Not one clue" article: "The husband was in a seated position, the child beside him along with the dog, and the wife just a little farther up the hill. Briese said they believe the family was returning to their truck." I read that scene as the dog wouldn't or couldn't go farther, or that's as far as he was carried. JG stopped and removed the baby carrier to attend to the dog, to check on the baby, or both. It's hard, or maybe impossible to see a baby you are carrying in a backpack, depending on the style, and EC was a lot shorter than JG, so she might not have had a clear view either. I expect it was a scene of panic and despair. Kreycik was found sitting under a tree, shade wasn't enough to save him, so it doesn't surprise me that JC sat down in the blazing sun and never moved. EC would not want to leave her husband, baby, and dog, but when she did, she only went 100'. From the descriptions of the effects of heat stroke, she was probably staggering and not thinking clearly. MOO, the dog behavior is based on my experiences at lower temperatures, I have never hiked or walked my dog in the 103-109F temps the sheriff suggested.

 

[Pumphouse363]

I wondered about that too, I didn't read that detail anywhere. However, I don't think it's particularly significant, either way. In that kind of heat, dogs are panting really hard, not running around, mine would try to walk in my shadow. The leash would be consistent with trying to keep the dog moving as he faltered. From the "Not one clue" article: "The husband was in a seated position, the child beside him along with the dog, and the wife just a little farther up the hill. Briese said they believe the family was returning to their truck." I read that scene as the dog wouldn't or couldn't go farther, or that's as far as he was carried. JG stopped and removed the baby carrier to attend to the dog, to check on the baby, or both. It's hard, or maybe impossible to see a baby you are carrying in a backpack, depending on the style, and EC was a lot shorter than JG, so she might not have had a clear view either. I expect it was a scene of panic and despair. Kreycik was found sitting under a tree, shade wasn't enough to save him, so it doesn't surprise me that JC sat down in the blazing sun and never moved. EC would not want to leave her husband, baby, and dog, but when she did, she only went 100'. From the descriptions of the effects of heat stroke, she was probably staggering and not thinking clearly. MOO, the dog behavior is based on my experiences at lower temperatures, I have never hiked or walked my dog in the 103-109F temps the sheriff suggested.

Yes - I understand your thinking on this. But when I read about the effects of heatstroke it suggests that the disorientation happens so quickly I wonder how Jon had time or forethought to remove the backpack and place it next to him?

 

[moonriverfarm]

I am stuck on his position when found. Seems that a dying person would fall over to the side, or backwards, once they lose consciousness.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Yes - I understand your thinking on this. But when I read about the effects of heatstroke it suggests that the disorientation happens so quickly I wonder how Jon had time or forethought to remove the backpack and place it next to him?

It may have been Ellen who placed the carrier with the baby next to him.

He may have had signs of heat exhaustion prior to a heatstroke, if that is what felled him, IMO.

*speculation

 

[Pumphouse363]

I am stuck on his position when found. Seems that a dying person would fall over to the side, or backwards, once they lose consciousness.

Yes I suppose it would depend on the sitting posture as I mentioned earlier. The description of ‘sitting upright’ seems unusual but I don’t know where that information has come from.