CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[jonjon747]

They could have gone down 2 days in a row, once down Hites Cove for a little bit, the other down the S-L trail for a bit. Provided there's no rain, the footsteps might not indicate a whole lot UNLESS they went in a certain direction down by the river.

You made a good point.
It wasn't raining that day, and we know that there are hardly any hikers there during this time of the year.
But still, there should've been something, I mean any sign of their activity would've been noticed.
if not one traceable evidence shows up such as footprints, or anything littered as some here have mentioned before about diapers being one, it's awfully difficult to conclude that the victims were actively hiking on that day.
How often do you see a family including a dog hike 4~5 hours or 6 miles in distance and not leave a single trace of evidence on soiled ground?
Even the dog would've marked his/her territory along the trail somewhere.

 

[jonjon747]

There is a good article from Friday August 20th, titled Not a Clue. The bodies were found Tuesday morning, the scene processed, and the bodies flown out on Wednesday morning, so at this point the sheriff, who is quoted in the article, had time to assess the evidence. The article has a map that shows what the sheriff told the reporter about their route- the loop. Tracking is a core competency of search and rescue teams, and these are trails that get little use this time of year. I would hope they had no trouble following and analyzing the tracks in those conditions, and until there is an update, this is the best information available, a map of the route as described by the sheriff. This is the first article I read that described the death scene. It's HIGHLY UNUSUAL to release that level of information two days after the scene was processed, as the sheriff released details to the public that only a hypothetical killer would know- the positions of the bodies. That tells me he's certain there isn't a killer on the loose. He would have to take a close look at the track evidence to reach that conclusion, IMHO.

Why are they still not disclosing any information in regards to tracking down their hiking route with confidence.
They're still not updating anything after ruling out homicide and CO1/2, and then onto autopsy and later toxic test.
Why are they waiting on, I mean how difficult could it be if they were able to track down this family's hiked route with a great confidence.
Maybe they're still looking for some answers to one final puzzle?

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I’m sure you are competent and

Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge. Let’s suppose that Jon and Ellen have similar expertise. Would they have gone on the hike that’s been suggested, in that heat, with a 12 month old child and a dog? Would they attempt the SL trail without telling friends or relatives where they were going and when they expected to be back?

No, I don't think anyone with my experience would do that hike in that heat, with or without the dog and baby. Earlier in the thread locals were quoted as saying people didn't hike there in summer, and commenting on why it has all those devil-related place names. It's not just me, it's common knowledge. I don't normally tell anyone where I'm going hiking, though my wife might tell our daughter. Our many hiker friends don't tell us where they are going in advance either, everyone just puts photos on social media afterwards. To us, the dangerous part is the drive to and from, not the hike.

 

[MsBetsy]

Why are they still not disclosing any information in regards to tracking down their hiking route with confidence.
They're still not updating anything after ruling out homicide and CO1/2, and then onto autopsy and later toxic test.
Why are they waiting on, I mean how difficult could it be if they were able to track down this family's hiked route with a great confidence.
Maybe they're still looking for some answers to one final puzzle?

Toxicology reports can take six weeks or longer. LE stated they have some back but not all.

Also cellphone and computer analysis can take a long time.

I hope we hear something soon.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Interesting that in the article, no mention is made of heatstroke, and dehydration is a “long shot.”

You're correct, but the details in the article tell me a different story. Here are some quotes: "it was 107 to 109 degrees Sunday afternoon when officials believe they hiked." That's extreme heat to be hiking in, heat stroke is common at those temperatures. "About 1.5 miles down the switchbacks, around 11 a.m. Tuesday, the team found the family in the middle of the trail." The significance to me is that's only half way up from the river, they still had 1.5 miles and a thousand feet of elevation gain to get to the safety of their truck. The distance is not the major factor, that remaining elevation gain after already hiking up a thousand feet was a death sentence. "The family also had a backpack with a bladder that held a small amount of water, the sheriff said." A small amount of water isn't nearly enough for a family of three and a dog (or even the last survivor) to climb another thousand feet in those temperatures. You would really need to be spraying water on externally to survive. I suspect they were rationing their dwindling supply, and it went unused as the physical and mental effects of heat stroke took effect. MOO.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

They could have gone down 2 days in a row, once down Hites Cove for a little bit, the other down the S-L trail for a bit. Provided there's no rain, the footsteps might not indicate a whole lot UNLESS they went in a certain direction down by the river.

If they went down the HCT and came back up, the search and rescue team should have seen footprints going both directions. Also, if they had gone down the SLT there should have been footprints showing that. I'm sure that once they knew fatalities were involved, they gathered and documented the track evidence. The map in the Not One Clue article is as good as we're likely to get. IMHO.

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

I can’t find any post where I have referred to a rucksack.

Regardless of the "rucksack/backpack" semantics, I think all @MrsEmmaPeel was trying to respectfully explain was that being British (I'm a Brit too!) we might not always have a full and comprehensive understanding in the very localised microclimates in an environment where J&E were found.

I live at one of the highest settlements above sea level in the UK, and the difference in weather and temperature between where I am and literally half a mile down the road can be dramatic to say the least! I imagine this is magnified for a landscape such as that around SL Trail and Devil's Gulch, and it was possibly an easy mistake to make in misjudging the conditions that day.

We forget just how much of a boss Mother Nature is sometimes, and it can even catch the most experienced out, sadly to their detriment.

MOO

 

[Pumphouse363]

@Pumphouse363
Below is the post where you wrote 'rucksack'.

Thank you

 

[Pumphouse363]

I'm guessing it was the following from just a couple of pages ago. I haven't gone back to search previous threads as I thought this one instance was maybe enough to settle the question at hand.
ETA: Looks like @realanastasia beat me to it. Sorry. Didn't mean to badger the issue. We must have posted at almost the same time.

That’s ok - thank you. It gives me confidence that the people on here really are super- sleuths

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

That’s ok - thank you. It gives me confidence that the people on here really are super- sleuths

Hehe I sleuthed you were a fellow Brit from a screenshot you posted earlier in the thread when I noticed the network 'O2' and your search was a Google.co.uk search. Hehe

 

[NSamuelle]

LE has said that toxicology can take as long as 6 weeks but was expedited in this case, and it has been 5 weeks. Does anyone have any (speculative) insight into why they still haven’t released a COD? Surely they have tested the camelback water by now. I wish they would let us know if additional causes have been ruled out (as when they ruled out CO poisoning), even if they don’t have a COD yet.

I know I’m repeating myself, but deadly algae that kills healthy adults would be a matter of public health and safety, so they should give the public a yea or nay at least w/r/t that concern.

 

[NSamuelle]

If they went down the HCT and came back up, the search and rescue team should have seen footprints going both directions. Also, if they had gone down the SLT there should have been footprints showing that. I'm sure that once they knew fatalities were involved, they gathered and documented the track evidence. The map in the Not One Clue article is as good as we're likely to get. IMHO.

I also don’t see any reason to doubt the LE-sanctioned map showing their route; LE has released so little information I’m sure they vetted the limited info they did release. There hasn’t been an update on their route, IMO, because there is no new information indicating a different one, so they have no reason to revise their initial map/statement.

 

[RedHaus]

I also don’t see any reason to doubt the LE-sanctioned map showing their route; LE has released so little information I’m sure they vetted the limited info they did release. There hasn’t been an update on their route, IMO, because there is no new information indicating a different one, so they have no reason to revise their initial map/statement.

I certainly don't have any evidence to dispute the early route map or LE assumptions about the family finishing "the loop" when they perished, but I still question whether the family - including the dog and baby - were CAPABLE of executing the nearly full loop in those conditions. I still contend, based on your and @Runswithdogs scientific knowledge about the effects of extreme heat on the most vulnerable in that group, namely the dog and baby, that they only went as far as where they were found, 1.5miles. And like @RickshawFan speculated last night, it is possible the family, and only the family, had used other segments of the "the loop" prior weekends or even Saturday.

The other thought I have regarding why LE might not update the public on any new insights they glean about the route the family took - or how they got to where they were found - is if in the course of their investigation they have decided to withhold any further details about the case, perhaps due to the nature of what they are finding.
IMO

 

[RedHaus]

OK, so this is an odd piece of information I share only because it appears to be a similar death mystery on a Mariposa County trail in the Hite's Cove area, in 2007.

My sleuthing skills are too limited to find the final autopsy / toxicology reports / investigation results, including where exactly Mr. LJ was found.

Can anyone else?

2007
"...two hikers in the Hite’s Cove area came upon the body of a naked man in the trail.... The cause of death has not been determined, and toxicology tests are pending, “There was no obvious trauma to the body,” Undersheriff Brian Muller told the Mariposa Gazette.... [The man] stayed at the Mariposa Lodge and had rented a car in the area.... His rental car was recovered in Oakhurst, about 25 miles from Mariposa."
https://www.marinij.com/2007/11/16/body-near-yosemite-identified-as-missing-greenbrae-man

BBM

ETA: LJ's obituary. He had a PhD in plasma physics and was a professor of Physics at Dominican University of California in San Rafael.
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/marinij/name/leslie-jerde-obituary?pid=97643688

 

[Parsnip]

@RedHaus , I believe I saw a reference to this on the Sheriff’s FB page, maybe during their update? I don’t have FB, and it won’t let me access most of the comments at this time.

 

[RedHaus]

@RedHaus , I believe I saw a reference to this on the Sheriff’s FB page, maybe during their update? I don’t have FB, and it won’t let me access most of the comments at this time.

Interesting @Parsnip... I was not aware of that. So thank you.
I will poke around there and see if any comments steer me to resources on that case that meet the WS TOS... the FB comments themselves of course would not.

 

[CharadeYouAre]

OK, so this is an odd piece of information I share only because it appears to be a similar death mystery on a Mariposa County trail in the Hite's Cove area, in 2007.

My sleuthing skills are too limited to find the final autopsy / toxicology reports / investigation results, including where exactly Mr. LJ was found.

Can anyone else?

2007
"...two hikers in the Hite’s Cove area came upon the body of a naked man in the trail.... The cause of death has not been determined, and toxicology tests are pending, “There was no obvious trauma to the body,” Undersheriff Brian Muller told the Mariposa Gazette.... [The man] stayed at the Mariposa Lodge and had rented a car in the area.... His rental car was recovered in Oakhurst, about 25 miles from Mariposa."
https://www.marinij.com/2007/11/16/body-near-yosemite-identified-as-missing-greenbrae-man

BBM

ETA: LJ's obituary. He had a PhD in plasma physics and was a professor of Physics at Dominican University of California in San Rafael.
https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/marinij/name/leslie-jerde-obituary?pid=97643688

Seems odd that the news article describes him as a drycleaning businessman.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

@Newsjunkiejen I stand respectfully corrected re: UK weather. I was once in Manchester on a business trip. Went to a beautiful area one Saturday -- great rolling hills-- for a good walk and a wind storm came up suddenly. I had to fall to the ground and hug the earth to not be blown off the hill. Meanwhile, the locals were striding into the wind. I felt like a fool, but I truly couldn't stand up. Once the wind let up, I hurried down the hill and back to Manchester.

 

[RedHaus]

Seems odd that the news article describes him as a drycleaning businessman.

That is odd, isn't it @CharadeYouAre.
I cross referenced the obit to the article using the spelling of the first and last name, the age at death (65), and the date of death (well, the date the hikers found LJ was the date of death listed in the obit). But I don't want to digress from the Gerrish-Chung case. I'll only post more if it is pertinent to solving the family's tragic death.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

@Pumphouse363 I responded in blue to your post below:

Thank you for that detailed response. I’d just like to say I didn’t suggest they had been ‘placed’ on the trail. (You’re right—I’m sorry I made that inference!) In regard to your points:

There has been no confirmation that LE has accessed their phones or computers except to say the phone found on Jon was sent to the FBI (They’ve publicly confirmed little, we don’t know if they have accessed them or not. We know from the last LE updates that they are working on that.)

Yes they were active hikers - so some credence should be afforded their ability to determine what would be required for the hike that’s been suggested they took on Sunday. (Yes, I agree.)

Just because Jon allegedly researched part of the HC trail does not indicate they had any intention of accessing the SL trail. (He researched it, had previously hiked part of the trail according to his AllTrails account, were seen close to the trail that morning, and ultimately were found there. I think the intention is clear, imo.)

He also has researched and investigated the HC trail on more than one occasion on his Alltrails account. One was a year ago and one four years ago.

The trail is close to one of their properties - they own four properties in Mariposa so are familiar with the area and landscape. There has to be a motive for a murder so you can’t really determine what lengths someone will go to unless you know the reason. (I think first you have to have proof a murder has been committed. In this case we haven’t had any indication from LE that this is the case.

I mentioned that it’s unusual for murderers to go to such great lengths to kill a family in this manner, if these were targeted murders. It would mean the killers would be proficient in hiking during very high temperatures. Why not kill them in their home?

If it’s a crime of opportunity, that makes even less sense. LE made it sound as if they were relatively undisturbed. I’d expect the dog would have died defending them, and there would be unmistakable signs of that.)

Ellen’s photo and message at 6.45 has not been printed in any media reports except that ‘some people’ have seen it. So no evidence of that. (We’ve linked several media reports where LE has stated that Ellen sent or posted this photo at 6:45 am. This is a fact.

What is in dispute is that some of us, including me, saw the photo and caption early on but now we cannot find it. Maybe it has been removed from online articles that first posted it. But the description of what we saw is consistent with what LE and MSM stated.)

The witness sighting at 7.45 was of the vehicle heading in the direction of the trail - not actually at the trailhead. (You’re right: witnesses saw them travelling down Hites Cove Road towards the trailhead.)

Yes you’re right in saying it is a very remote area where they were discovered. It is very challenging terrain so why would two intelligent, caring, loving parents take their daughter and beloved dog on a hike to Devil's Gulch and the Savage Lundy Trail?(I don’t know.
An accomplished SAR tracker here has said that at times we’re all one bad decision away from ending up featured in one of these cases found in these threads.

Posters in these threads have told their own stories about heatstroke/heat exhaustion. They’re worth reading.)

It is a very distressing situation and all seems to point to a tragic miscalculation on their behalf - perhaps heat exhaustion or lightning strike or toxic algae. It’s just so difficult to comprehend why they would make those decisions. (I can’t begin to understand how distressing it must be to suffer this loss. For that I’m very sorry.

Miscalculation is possibly a good term. I think we all have at times, I certainly have.

There are inherent risks in these types of hikes, but the challenges are part of what makes it great. I think they believed they could protect their daughter, dog and each other. Maybe it was algae or something unforeseen that led to this tragedy.)