CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[Pumphouse363]

off-subject from discussion of the "seated" position, since you appear to have significant familiarity with mariposa, do you know how many properties gerrish owned in that area and how many were rentals? moo.

Four - three available on Airbnb - all information and addresses found online.

 

[Pumphouse363]

off-subject from discussion of the "seated" position, since you appear to have significant familiarity with mariposa, do you know how many properties gerrish owned in that area and how many were rentals? moo.

Four - three Airbnb- addresses all found online.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

I emailed the Mariposa Probate Court asking them to update online filings. Why? To have verifiable links identifying anyone applying as executor of John’s estate.
Hopefully they’ll update soon. They’re behind due to the pandemic, of course.
I’ll check SF probate later.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Jon appears to have a black smart watch (or perhaps a regular watch?) in a picture of him holding Miju. I wish we knew whether he was wearing it on the hike. Final calls on Brit dad's phone may hold key to how family died on hiking trip

Here's an enlargement of the watch. It's thinner than my Garmin and might have a squared rather than round shape. Not sure that narrows it down much.

 

[wary]

MOO

I think we may be over-analyzing the whole ‘seated position’ question.

In my opinion, there’d be nothing unusual at all about someone feeling stress from the heat and thinking that if he just sat down and rested, he’d be okay. If that happened, I think that what happened next was that he passed into unconsciousness and then died.

Okay, visualize his position. Someone who dies while in a seated position is not likely to collapse in the same position as someone who died suddenly while standing, or someone who who died while crawling. (Just my thought-experiment.)

My suspicion is that that is what LE meant, and we’ve taken one brick and built a house around it.

MOO

 

[HannahJJJ]

Four - three available on Airbnb - all information and addresses found online.

ty.

moo. haven't looked online for property information, but based on news articles it's my understanding that he (they?) bought a few homes After the impactful COVID19 situation arose (and COVID19, which as we all know, continues...and continues...and...). moo.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

ty.

moo. haven't looked online for property information, but based on news articles it's my understanding that he (they?) bought a few homes After the impactful COVID19 situation arose (and COVID19, which as we all know, continues...and continues...and...). moo.

When you search you will see transaction history, including dates.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

In re: JG’s position: Gerrish was discovered in a seated position with Miju and Oski near him, while Chung was found a ways away from them up a hill, according to The Washington Post.

I’ve only seen it reported as seating or sitting, and I find it very odd. I’m sure reporters verified before reporting. Jmo. I noted he was not found slumped over.
from what I’ve read blood would pool to lower extremities and gravity would take over. Moo

 

[Parsnip]

Re: Revisiting third party involvement

While we await toxicology results, I propose an intellectual exercise for anyone who may be interested in batting around third party involvement in this case. We hashed this out before, and some of us may be fatigued…No problem if you’re not interested . As @RedHaus pointed out, we still have a homicide investigation. Maybe see if we missed something while applying our own Occam’s Razors.

Let’s circumscribe the discussion a little. Mariposa is a small town, and some individuals may be uniquely identifiable, perhaps based on familiarity or access to the family or obvious motive. We could call the “who” ??. Let’s focus our discussion mostly on means. Was there a fifth individual on the hike? (I’m counting the dog as an individual, but you don’t have to ). Could ?? Have arrived on scene at some point? Again, a purely hypothetical exercise while we bide our time.

Any takers?

Edited for dumb number mistake. It’s third party, not second party. Duh.

Tagging

@RedHaus , @fred&edna , @Pumphouse363 , @Babs24 , @ItalyReader because you all seemed interested in knocking around a third-party scenario.

Fair warning: this is not my comfort zone. I’m pretty convinced at this point with a cascade scenario similar to the one I proposed in thread 1. I’m also very much out of my element wrt maps and most things chemical, which will come up in the following hypothetical scenario. My own bailiwick is more human behavior and language.

However, I am moved by the persistence of some posters on this thread that the G-C family would absolutely not deliberately or mistakenly put themselves or their child and dog in danger. Here, I assume they would not. I also assume no intentional attack on them. This is a hypothetical scenario that assumes both of those suppositions are true.

JG’s and EC’s child is growing. It’s been hot in CA, and they have noticed the baby getting hot and uncomfortable in the carrier they’ve been using. So they research and order a new pack. Its benefits are a sun shade and less body heat contact between the baby and the wearer. It arrives on Saturday. JG fits it to himself, finds it comfortable, does some research, and talks with EC about a hike for early next morning to try it out.

Sunday morning, they consult the weather forecast. All looks good for a test run of the pack in the early hours. They prepare and pack up. Their chosen destination is Hite’s Cove, a trail they know. But upon arrival, they change course and decide to try out the switchbacks on Savage-Lundy. It would be a better test of the pack on the steep terrain of the switchbacks (map people: is it true that the switchbacks are steeper than HC?). They’ll head back up after an hour or so with plenty of time to get back to the car before it gets hot.

A mile or so into the switchbacks, the dog starts protesting ( maybe vomiting? Refusing to walk? Idk.) JG has had the dog on a leash and the baby on his back. He takes the baby off, noticing the baby is not looking good, either. Could it be the heat? EC thinks it might be. She has the water and starts squeezing it out of the bladder on the baby and dog. She notices JG has sat down and she’s feeling sick herself. This can’t be heat! She has to get out of there…she’s the only one still functioning. She starts to head back to the car/help, but succumbs several yards away. It’s about 9:30/10:00am.

Really spitballing about what happened next/before they arrived. Hang in there with me while I spit ball.

1. Hours before the family arrived for their short hike, ?? came to spray some toxin in the area to kill vegetation to make room for a grow. It wouldn’t be on the switchbacks but some higher elevation. The spray would have to have settled onto the switchbacks. The area is known not to be used, except in early spring for wild flower viewing, so a late summer plant for a fall harvest might work…idk.

2. ?? Returns early Monday (or any time after the area becomes safe after the spray) for a second application or just to check on things but notices a car there. Following prints, ?? discovers the family on the trail. Panicked, ?? not only does not report their deaths but obscures evidence. ?? knows better than to disturb the family at the scene but does obscure footprints leading down S-L. (Again in need of map people here: would ?? have had to access keys and move the car in order to suggest the trail the family took was HC…would there be any point in doing that?)

?? hopes enough time will pass that the toxin in the spray will be obscured in any toxicology tests due exposure/decomposition. Mariposa County is responsible for managing/reporting public health hazards, and this scene is surely going to get some attention…

All MOO and speculation.

Alright, my WS friends. Chime in.

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you seem to imply foul play? Do you think they were coerced into taking this hike? MOO>> That's a real stretch and probably has no basis, since LE ruled out foul play, which isn't limited to obvious bodily injury. The *RAZOR* really does apply here between foul play VS a tragic mistake.

I NEVER even suggested any type of coercion. Please don’t twist my words.

 

[HannahJJJ]

Many of us find it perplexing that an entire family and pet all died at the same time....how could this be? Answer (MOO)>>They didn't. Keep in mind this was a FAMILY and they would stay together at all costs. TWO members were dependents, so it really comes down to husband and wife.
The key point here is that they were TRAPPED in a situation for which, ultimately, there was NO ESCAPE...the clock was ticking when they started the hike back up the steep and brutal SL trail. Yes, it was a death trap at that point in their journey, since they couldn't simply rest in the heat.
So we have a cascade of death...with the most vulnerable perishing first whilst the remaining members succumbed thereafter to the unrelenting heat. We can speculate as to the sequence of death, but it really doesn't matter since they would stay together until the end. EC may have made a last desperate attempt, explaining her separation from the rest....we'll never know.

Moo. The way I'm looking at things, the sense I get, and no victim blaming, no, just we "fragile humans caught in the anguish and splendor of life" (paraphrase Henry Beston), yes, they would stay together at all costs. Moo. All Moo.

And, no, I do not think a suicide pact. Moo. All Moo.

 

[rahod1]

I NEVER even suggested any type of coercion. Please don’t twist my words.

OK..I'm just trying to understand your take. I was ASKING if you thought they were coerced, I didn't state that is what you were saying. I'm really confused here. I interpreted your statement to imply that they planned the hike, but then decided to abort it and return home. Is this correct? Does your scenario imply foul play ? If they weren't coerced in any way and there was foul play, then that implies they were taken down while hiking. But this would support the fact that they planned to take the hike. Not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to understand your take on this.

 

[RedHaus]

dbm - accidental post.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The author, I think, is just being dramatic here. Appears to be taking a liberty and setting up the story with a podcastish bent. Idk. It does appear, based on the title that the author believes TABs are suspected in this case. Of course, we’ve seen articles like that already, but this is the first new piece we’ve seen in a while, and it could possibly have some new info…maybe? Hopefully? It’s good to see the case getting some attention at any rate! Jmo.

Sorry, I re-read my response and I didn’t word it well :/ I’m happy you posted the link and I’m also hoping the author found new information. I’m going to keep trying to see if we can access it.

 

[fred&edna]

Tagging

@RedHaus , @fred&edna , @Pumphouse363 , @Babs24 , @ItalyReader because you all seemed interested in knocking around a third-party scenario.

Fair warning: this is not my comfort zone. I’m pretty convinced at this point with a cascade scenario similar to the one I proposed in thread 1. I’m also very much out of my element wrt maps and most things chemical, which will come up in the following hypothetical scenario. My own bailiwick is more human behavior and language.

However, I am moved by the persistence of some posters on this thread that the G-C family would absolutely not deliberately or mistakenly put themselves or their child and dog in danger. Here, I assume they would not. I also assume no intentional attack on them. This is a hypothetical scenario that assumes both of those suppositions are true.

JG’s and EC’s child is growing. It’s been hot in CA, and they have noticed the baby getting hot and uncomfortable in the carrier they’ve been using. So they research and order a new pack. Its benefits are a sun shade and less body heat contact between the baby and the wearer. It arrives on Saturday. JG fits it to himself, finds it comfortable, does some research, and talks with EC about a hike for early next morning to try it out.

Sunday morning, they consult the weather forecast. All looks good for a test run of the pack in the early hours. They prepare and pack up. Their chosen destination is Hite’s Cove, a trail they know. But upon arrival, they change course and decide to try out the switchbacks on Savage-Lundy. It would be a better test of the pack on the steep terrain of the switchbacks (map people: is it true that the switchbacks are steeper than HC?). They’ll head back up after an hour or so with plenty of time to get back to the car before it gets hot.

A mile or so into the switchbacks, the dog starts protesting ( maybe vomiting? Refusing to walk? Idk.) JG has had the dog on a leash and the baby on his back. He takes the baby off, noticing the baby is not looking good, either. Could it be the heat? EC thinks it might be. She has the water and starts squeezing it out of the bladder on the baby and dog. She notices JG has sat down and she’s feeling sick herself. This can’t be heat! She has to get out of there…she’s the only one still functioning. She starts to head back to the car/help, but succumbs several yards away. It’s about 9:30/10:00am.

Really spitballing about what happened next/before they arrived. Hang in there with me while I spit ball.

1. Hours before the family arrived for their short hike, ?? came to spray some toxin in the area to kill vegetation to make room for a grow. It wouldn’t be on the switchbacks but some higher elevation. The spray would have to have settled onto the switchbacks. The area is known not to be used, except in early spring for wild flower viewing, so a late summer plant for a fall harvest might work…idk.

2. ?? Returns early Monday (or any time after the area becomes safe after the spray) for a second application or just to check on things but notices a car there. Following prints, ?? discovers the family on the trail. Panicked, ?? not only does not report their deaths but obscures evidence. ?? knows better than to disturb the family at the scene but does obscure footprints leading down S-L. (Again in need of map people here: would ?? have had to access keys and move the car in order to suggest the trail the family took was HC…would there be any point in doing that?)

?? hopes enough time will pass that the toxin in the spray will be obscured in any toxicology tests due exposure/decomposition. Mariposa County is responsible for managing/reporting public health hazards, and this scene is surely going to get some attention…

All MOO and speculation.

Alright, my WS friends. Chime in.

I don't know enough about fast-acting toxins used in weed control, nor how commonly they may be used (legally or illegally). However, I'm open to theories regarding exposure to toxins so... your thoughts seem possible.

 

[Parsnip]

OK..I'm just trying to understand your take. I was ASKING if you thought they were coerced, I didn't state that is what you were saying. I'm really confused here. I interpreted your statement to imply that they planned the hike, but then decided to abort it and return home. Is this correct? Does your scenario imply foul play ? If they weren't coerced in any way and there was foul play, then that implies they were taken down while hiking. But this would support the fact that they planned to take the hike. Not trying to be argumentative here, just trying to understand your take on this.

I get what you are saying, @rahod1 . The situations with both the family and more recent posts on these thread are obscure.

 

[Parsnip]

Sorry, I re-read my response and I didn’t word it well :/ I’m happy you posted the link and I’m also hoping the author found new information. I’m going to keep trying to see if we can access it.

No problem. There was no misunderstanding on my part of your intention wrt your comment about the article. I’m with you…I’d really like to read the whole thing!

 

[WillieMac]

I get what you are saying, @rahod1 . The situations with both the family and more recent posts on these thread are obscure.

Me three!

 

[RedHaus]

Alright, my WS friends. Chime in.

RSBM
I always appreciate a fresh idea, @Parsnip, so thank you for taking the leap of faith. Despite the Mariposa SO declaring this investigation a homicide investigation (see an earlier post of mine with a quote), WS has asked us not to entertain notions of murder on this thread and I respect that.

But your scenario is about accidental poisoning so that seems fair game. And I think it would be fair to add a possible tangent to your scenario that: if the adults (or the dependents) succumbed first to an accidental poisoning then the other two may have succumbed to heat stroke by sticking together as faithful loved ones.

Here are two concerns with your scenario:

1. I am not sure about a grow ops clearing land with herbicides in the immediate area and accidentally poisoning the trail, since those are likely located off the beaten path.

2. No other animals were found dead in the area of the family - you'd think if it was a dose lethal enough to kill a baby, dog and/or two adults, other animals would die. Of course, maybe animals did die after the contamination and scavengers (i.e. vultures, coyotes, bald eagles) already got to the dead animals... the scavengers would die later.

On the other hand, here are two factoids that may support your scenario.

1. The scene where the family was recovered was initially treated as a HazMat scene: "The family was located in a remote area of the Sierra National Forest, according to the Mariposa County Sheriff's Office. Their deaths are "being handled as a hazmat and coroner investigation," the department said in a statement." Why??
'Beloved' Family and Dog Who Died in Mysterious 'Hazmat Situation' Had Moved to Enjoy Nature

2. I researched early on (can find it if folks need me to) that since the fire that destroyed the trees in the area of the S-L trail / Devil's Gulch, Chaparral vegetation had overgrown the S-L trail and efforts were underway to clear it to make it more passible. So a) it was a harder trail to traverse than just hot and dry, and b) herbicide use??

Again, thanks for giving this a shot... Others?

 

[PerplexedPatty]

Here's an enlargement of the watch. It's thinner than my Garmin and might have a squared rather than round shape. Not sure that narrows it down much.

It’s incredibly sad to see little Miju and know she only had one birthday.