CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #5

[rahod1]

You misunderstand me - I’m not proposing any trail. I’m saying that whichever one they elected to do, the baby and the dog would have shown signs of distress within the first half hour (according to some comments on here by people more expert than me).
My difficulty is accepting the fact that Jon and Ellen would continue on either trail if either/both Miju and Oski showed signs of discomfort - even if they both felt relatively ok.
Unfortunately, I do not have an alternative explanation as to why they were found in that location on the SL trail - I don’t see how they could have managed to traverse that far without the most vulnerable succumbing to the heat before they even reached the river.
There have been a lot of very good theories on WS of what may have taken place given the limited information so far - it’s just a case of waiting for the reports from LE and other experts involved.

BBM
For sure and this is very puzzling. My take is that by the time they realized they had a problem (whether it be one of the adults or dependents), it was TOO LATE. They had reached the point where ANY RETURN would be fatal because they were isolated in a HEAT TRAP which necessitated a laborious UPHILL return. This why I don't see them *only* going half way down SL in the morning and perishing there (facing UPHILL), dog and child getting ill notwithstanding. There would have to be additional stress (longer trip and more time consumed) to inflict deadly consequences for the adults. If they didn't go down to the river on SL, then they got into trouble somewhere after reaching the river at HC trail. At that point they KNEW what hiking back UP HC would be like and so ventured forward perhaps thinking a more level hike along the river would *spare them* and SL would be less stressful with switchbacks. I really don't think they had a feel for what SL would be like, but were willing to take the risk. MOO

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

@jonjon747 bbm sbm. Respectfully, do we know as a fact that S&R covered the entire loop "without much struggle or causing any serious health issues"???
I don't recall temps on day & time of couple's hike, compared to temps when S&R conducted searches, two days later, iirc.

Pls bear in mind, I've not read all posts here or all Sheriff's/LE/S&R releases on this, but I doubt their mission was a piece of cake. Just wondering. my2ct.

As I recall from earlier threads, SAR dogs had to be pulled due to burning paws on the trail and a LE was stricken by the heat on Wednesday morning, the day the bodies were lifted by helicopter from the switchbacks. It was not specified that he was SAR so my assumption was he was SO, after treatment he recovered. Temps were hot before and after the weekend of the fatal hike. If you look at any of the news footage on YT of the helicopter hovering you can see waves of heat coming up out of Devil's Gulch. Wednesday morning was slightly cooler than some of the temps on Sunday afternoon, but still brutal and enough to cause a heat emergency in one of the team. MOO.

 

[jonjon747]

I'm not even sure now about the allegedly found footprints near the Hites Cove OHV actually belongs to this family.

I can no longer find any article mentioning about it in the early investigation.

Is there any source of information that confirms it matches their footprints?

 

[5W's]

I haven't followed closely on where the recently purchased Gerrish-Chung property is in relation to where they were found. It's highly possible I don't know enough, and that's why I find it unusual that a curious sheriff deputy "drove down the single-lane red dirt Hites Cove Road until the closed U.S. Forest Service gate appeared. — the couple’s truck was parked at the popular but remote trailhead. It was 2 a.m." rather soon after the couple was first reported missing by RH (and I'm not clear on why it was this person who reported them missing). Did the deputy go there to check out the property...is it a rental property?

I don't think the AirB&B that you mention is this close to the trail. I thought it was a couple of miles away. I could be wrong, though.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

I'm not even sure now about the allegedly found footprints near the Hites Cove OHV actually belongs to this family.

I can no longer find any article mentioning about it in the early investigation.

Is there any source of information that confirms it matches their footprints?

I don't believe the reports ever said the footprints were confirmed as theirs, but LE was quoted in the early news articles as saying the footprints and pawprints found were consistent with the family -- to me that means prints from one dog and two adults, one large enough to be appropriate for someone of JG's height and hiking weight and one of appropriate size for someone of EC's height and hiking weight.

Once the family was found, it's possible they also confirmed the print treads matched the shoes they were wearing, but if they did that it hasn't been reported publicly.

MOO

 

[rahod1]

I don't believe the reports ever said the footprints were confirmed as theirs, but LE was quoted in the early news articles as saying the footprints and pawprints found were consistent with the family -- to me that means prints from one dog and two adults, one large enough to be appropriate for someone of JG's height and hiking weight and one of appropriate size for someone of EC's height and hiking weight.

Once the family was found, it's possible they also confirmed the print treads matched the shoes they were wearing, but if they did that it hasn't been reported publicly.

MOO

Correct. Finding those prints also prompted LE to look at the SL trail, being the completion of a possible loop hike and that hunch panned out. LE has never changed or modified the theory that the family took a loop hike starting down HC Road and ending where they were found on SL. So we have only TWO possible scenarios. 1) They hiked down SL, either to the point they were found or farther and then turned back up or 2) They arrived at the point they were found via a loop hike originating at HC Road...where prints *consistent with a family and dog* were found. There are no other rational scenarios. MOO

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Correct. Finding those prints also prompted LE to look at the SL trail, being the completion of a possible loop hike and that hunch panned out. LE has never changed or modified the theory that the family took a loop hike starting down HC Road and ending where they were found on SL. So we have only TWO possible scenarios. 1) They hiked down SL, either to the point they were found or farther and then turned back up or 2) They arrived at the point they were found via a loop hike originating at HC Road...where prints *consistent with a family and dog* were found. There are no other rational scenarios. MOO

We may eventually learn whether there were tracks along their whole route. I can imagine that SAR couldn't, especially in the dark, just hike along at normal speed, swinging flashlights around while calling out for them -- they would have had to move slowly, looking carefully down each hillside in case the family had fallen, etc. So once SAR got a few miles in and hadn't found them, it made sense to send a second team down the only other trail that was in the vicinity of their truck, just in case. And of course that's where they were found.

I will say, in response to your closing comment, that I did put forth a third rational scenario. Not *likely* but still IMO *rational* -- and that is that they went down HC partway but not all the way to the river, and then tried to "shortcut" back to the truck by going cross country, but were too low and so intersected the SL trail and headed uphill on that.

If there hadn't been the fire I would think following the drainage up (the one in between the two trails, visible on the topo maps and google aerial photos) might have seemed like a good idea to stay in maximum shade.

It's possible there was some reason they chose that option. (and to repeat, I'm not asserting they did, just that it's a rational option).

 

[rahod1]

I will say, in response to your closing comment, that I did put forth a third rational scenario. Not *likely* but still IMO *rational* -- and that is that they went down HC partway but not all the way to the river, and then tried to "shortcut" back to the truck by going cross country, but were too low and so intersected the SL trail and headed uphill on that.

If there hadn't been the fire I would think following the drainage up (the one in between the two trails, visible on the topo maps and google aerial photos) might have seemed like a good idea to stay in maximum shade.

It's possible there was some reason they chose that option. (and to repeat, I'm not asserting they did, just that it's a rational option).

Boy, that would be very challenging. This wasn't a single able bodied hiker, trying to *wing it* (MOO). I would think if they were PART WAY down HC and decided to abort, they would simply hike back up a KNOWN trail rather than go across unknown terrain with no path. So I wouldn't put the *rogue route* in the *rational category*. Just my take.

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Boy, that would be very challenging. This wasn't a single able bodied hiker, trying to *wing it* (MOO). I would think if they were PART WAY down HC and decided to abort, they would simply hike back up a KNOWN trail rather than go across unknown terrain with no path. So I wouldn't put the *rogue route* in the *rational category*. Just my take.

Fair enough.

 

[5W's]

If we had a poll I would vote heat stroke.

I have hiked many desert trails over the years, and I know that heat exhaustion can occur very suddenly, and once it sets in it can affect decision making. Heat stroke can soon follow.

A hike seems very doable in cooler morning temperatures but the situation can quickly go bad when the temperature spikes, especially when you have an uphill climb.

Years ago on one of my desert hikes I made some bad decisions when I became overheated. I couldn’t figure out if I should go backward which was a longer distance or keep going forward, which was shorter in distance but uphill. I didn’t want to drink the last of my water because I thought I should save it because I still had so far to go. At one point I thought I could see shade off the trail when there was none. I reasoned if I closed my eyes and rested for a few minutes I would have the strength to continue hiking.

I managed to hike two more miles that day and made my way out, but a couple other hikers in the area had to be rescued.

I understand how quickly and unexpectedly heat can overtake even experienced hikers, and it affects decision making.

Incidentally, on my most recent desert hike my companion and I passed two different couples who were hiking with babies, on a very strenuous, mostly uphill trail, in the mid day heat.

However, they were witnessed earlier in the morning at 7:45AM. It was a lot cooler temperature than later in the day. Just my two cents.

 

[5W's]

I mentioned on another post that on my most recent desert hike my companion and I passed two couples with babies in backpack carriers. This was on a very hot day One of the babies already appeared to be very sunburned.
That is very sad. In this instance that you described these people were IMO at the point of no return if something happened to them and their babies. Perhaps these people were inexperienced hikers. JG/EC as far as we know had hiked before and in the same area so they were aware of the conditions, as perhaps these people may not have known (who you saw.) These people may have also had enough supplies with them. As LE has mentioned in JG/EC's case that they had one camelback of water that was almost finished (IIRC.)



My point is that it’s not uncommon for parents to take babies on strenuous hikes, even in very hot weather.

 

[5W's]

Im sure it’s not uncommon for some people to do this. When I was younger I might even have done it myself - but not when I was 45 with my first (and only) 12 month old baby. We are assuming they were avid hikers on the one hand, but inexperienced on the other. If we are saying the were experienced then it stands to reason they would have taken every precaution to safeguard, not only themselves, but also Miju and Oski. Looking at the ALLtrails account Jon didn’t really appear to hike in areas as remote and unforgiving as the SL trail.
If we assume they actually made it to Hite Cove and managed to enjoy some fun and frolics in the river, surely as experienced hikers (or even just intelligent human beings) they would realise that returning to their vehicle would be madness in the heat of the day? They could have made the decision to follow the traditional route of the HC trail along the river and reach the main highway much more easily than heading for the SL trail. On reaching the HW they could have used their cellphone to call for someone to pick them up.
I can’t figure why they would choose the most difficult option. MOO

IMO I think that some people are not aware of the scene or to be more specific the actual location as those who are familiar with this particular area. But yes, I think what you have suggested here is spot on (so to speak.) That makes this whole case more mysterious IMO.

 

[HannahJJJ]

IMO I think that some people are not aware of the scene or to be more specific the actual location as those who are familiar with this particular area. But yes, I think what you have suggested here is spot on (so to speak.) That makes this whole case more mysterious IMO.

Moo...
I haven't gotten the hang of things so I wasn't able to include the Pumphouse363 quote in your post, but, yes, I see it all similarly. This was a 45 yr old man, his Very First child, not 20 but 45. A well-educated man. EC young but she had sustained and recovered from a traumatic brain injury some yrs previously. No small feat to have endured that, not to mention that being knocked into the world where bad things (the TBI in this case) happen to the "next guy" AND You Are the "next guy"...imo/Moo such a profound Realization most often makes a person very aware of life's perils and that None of us are immune to these perils. Makes us cautious.

Imo/Moo something significant was operating here, not merely simple humor error.

Moo. All Moo.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Not sure the rules about quoting social media, so won't quote directly, but has anyone ventured over to the Mariposa County Sheriff's Facebook page? They had a press release about the case on September 30th. In reading the comments, I noticed one poster, in particular, "Chuck Stone" who claims to be a former CALFIRE captain and suffered HS with his dogs and wife on the Savage-Lundy in similar extreme heat and almost died. He posted a few times in response to others, if you're interested in reading his comments. If you take him as credible, (IMO) it makes accidental HS seem very plausible given EC/JG's situation and various factors. And also interesting that an experienced CALFIRE captain could find themselves similarly caught off guard and vulnerable. ETA: tried to link the FB page, but couldn't.

Thanks @Karuna. I had a hard time finding that Chuck Stone story, but it was remarkably similar. Savage Lundy Trail, 106 degrees, rationing water, dog collapsed and had to be carried, he recognized heat stroke symptoms in himself and barely made it the last half mile to his truck. He made this comment: "I was a CALFIRE crew captain for 20 of my 35 years, and I did this hike and almost died from simple miscalculation of my abilities in this kind of weather."

 

[5W's]

Interesting trail descriptions From MariposaTrails.org

- South Fork Trail between Hite Cove Road trail and Savage Lundy:
Hiking this trail from June through September, or when the temperature is hot (generally above 80-degrees Feirenhit), is NOT advised. Of the entire South Fork Trail, this segment was in the worst shape. Thanks to the work of a CCC crew in April/May 2021, this segment is now in great shape.

- Savage-Lundy Trail:
Hiking this trail from June through September, or when the temperature is hot (generally above 80-degrees Feirenhit (sic)), is NOT advised. This is a great foot trail with extensive vistas of Devil's Gulch and the South Fork Merced River drainages, especially after the 2018 Ferguson Fire striped the entire hillside of vegetation, making an incredibly stark landscape. In 2021, however, the vegetation came back- and then some, with chaparral growing extensively on the trail. Unless removed, this vegetation will completely impede travel by 2022.. The elevation change is steep; best to avoid the hot mid-day while climbing out of the canyon. In April 2021, the trail washout at the bottom was repaired, but the tread is very narrow. This trail needs immediate work. Contact Mariposa Trails if you'd like to help restore this trail. . . .In April 2021, the trail washout here was repaired, but it's narrow- unusable for equestrians. Cyclists will need to carry bikes through this 30-foot segment.

- Hites Cove Road (they label it an "access road")
Most light trucks and SIV's can travel on this dirt road. Passenger vehicles should not use this road. The road is frequently covered in snow during the winter.

So back to square one which is why choose the Road and, not as others above have asked, Savage-Lundy to start with?

Thanks for the description of SL trail. It makes it a little clearer for those of us who haven't yet seen the maps members have posted so far. But this makes me think that JG/EC would have had an idea of the condition of the SL trail and the general area. Wouldn't they have spoken to their neighbors/friends who know this area well?

 

[neesaki]

Thanks for the description of SL trail. It makes it a little clearer for those of us who haven't yet seen the maps members have posted so far. But this makes me think that JG/EC would have had an idea of the condition of the SL trail and the general area. Wouldn't they have spoken to their neighbors/friends who know this area well?

None of it makes sense to me.

 

[Pumphouse363]

RSBM @Pumphouse I think you have to account for the fact that having a baby slows everything down. So it could have been quite a bit later than you're suggesting when they got started and thus to Marble point. Also, what others have suggested about something unexpected occurring could have slowed them down too. Even something like a blister or an old injury (bum knee) affecting walking speed, etc.

Regarding the baby still being in the pack. Agree with others about her safety and JG's possible/likely (moo) being disabled - but also she was a year old and could certainly crawl, if not walk, and keeping her in the carrier could very well have been for her own safety too.

I, too, struggle with how they decided to do that hike, on that day, with those dependents. Although, I don't think I would ever have done any portion of it, myself, I keep coming back to the possibility that they intended something shorter and something derailed things (like the possibilities, for example, detailed by @Auntie Cipation). Also, even though I wouldn't have taken that hike with my kids (or by myself for that matter, not a fan of even less extreme heat for hiking), I will say this case and this thread has opened my eyes to HS risks. I've backpacked a fair amount (Kauai, New Zealand, Canada, Colorado, Washington, California) and there are still things I don't know. Of course there are. And that's true for parenting too. I've definitely been humbled as a hiker and a parent, especially with my second kid, realizing things I did with my first kid that I know better about now. I'm saying that to say, if they had a blindspot in judgment and they intended something shorter and they encountered something unexpected it seems completely reasonable the cascade of events lead to their tragic deaths. I know we can't fathom them taking their dependents out under those conditions, but what if they really intended to be back shortly and just had a human moment of underestimating the heat and how quickly it could disable them? We don't want to believe this, I think, because it exposes all our humanity, fallibility, and fragility. It asks us to sit with the discomfort of randomness and the tragedy of preventable mistakes.

Yes thank you for that very kind and considerate post. All very true.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Just an example of how quickly things can go wrong, even with experienced hikers: My dad and I were hiking in a remote part of Death Valley, in the summer. We were well-prepared with a car full of water, ice, snacks etc.

We were driving a rental car that we had picked up at the airport. Unbeknownst to us, the rental car had a “safety” feature where the doors locked automatically if the keys were left in the ignition.

We had parked in a spot off a gravel road, and were going to get our backpacks, water, hats, sunblock, etc. out of the back seat. We got out of the car and both shut our doors at the same time, and heard a loud “click” as all four doors locked.

We were locked out of our car, in 115 degree heat, somewhere deep into Death Valley. We hadn’t seen another human being for hours. Our ample supply of water, food, and ice was inside the car, along with cellphones, maps, etc. We weren’t even in an actual parking lot. We hadn’t let anyone know where we were going to be that day, as we were on a ten day trip hiking trails in three states with no set itinerary.

Fortunately I had been able to force something in beside the rear window, making enough of a gap that I could trigger the lock. We would have broken a window to get in if we needed to.

But it did make us think about all the things that could go wrong. We only had one key to the vehicle, what if we had lost it while hiking? And why didn’t we let anyone know our itinerary?

When you are hiking in extreme conditions truly one lapse in judgement can be fatal.

I’m so glad you made it. Thanks for taking the time to share your experiences.

 

[Ruthbullock]

So I continue to follow with interest, but can’t help wondering if we will never hear anything again, has a conclusion been found that is inconclusive and the families have accepted that?
However some of the recent comments also got me thinking and I had two thoughts, neither of which add more, but rather just my pondering.
The first references the baby- maybe she was a grisly baby generally, some are, and the walk was the only thing that gave the parents breathing space even whilst she grumbled in the carrier- this may have created a lapse in judgement and led to them failing to notice a deterioration in the child’s health.
Second- the heat, if it was hot when they were still moving, the dog would have burnt or damaged paws- something which has never been mentioned in all the articles I have read.
These two comments add very little of use, just merely some thoughts I had, I’m surprised we didn’t hear anything at all over the dogs necropsy.

 

[CocoChanel]

So I continue to follow with interest, but can’t help wondering if we will never hear anything again, has a conclusion been found that is inconclusive and the families have accepted that?
However some of the recent comments also got me thinking and I had two thoughts, neither of which add more, but rather just my pondering.
The first references the baby- maybe she was a grisly baby generally, some are, and the walk was the only thing that gave the parents breathing space even whilst she grumbled in the carrier- this may have created a lapse in judgement and led to them failing to notice a deterioration in the child’s health.
Second- the heat, if it was hot when they were still moving, the dog would have burnt or damaged paws- something which has never been mentioned in all the articles I have read.
These two comments add very little of use, just merely some thoughts I had, I’m surprised we didn’t hear anything at all over the dogs necropsy.

Hi Ruthbullock, and thanks for your recent thoughts.
I am not familiar with the term “grisly baby”. I think I can surmise what it might mean, but would like to hear from you how what that description would entail in regards to a baby. I imagine it is a figure of speech that has local meaning, but not to all. Instead of assuming a definition, it would help to understand from you how you apply that term.
Thanks a bunch!