CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[5W's]

The baby must have been screaming most of the trip, too. Certainly by the time they got to the river. The pack fabric for baby’s seat would have made her super hot.
Did LE mention diapers? That might have been how they deduced dehydration.

Its so very sad imagining this about the baby in such distress!

 

[5W's]

I can’t think of anything compelling that would have been left in the parking lot giving rise to a search, given that they had so little — and apparently nothing was recovered from the parking lot or at any point in the trail.

Ellen had no phone of her own, neither had hats or extra water despite a ~10L deficiency for the intended route, and Oski had no water bowl.

I know these are the reasons why we all find the whole situation so odd. No water bowl for Oski. So little water. I was thinking perhaps keys (and they found them in the parking lot or possibly had a second set if they thought they lost them but had not they eventually realized as it got hotter and hotter.)

 

[NSamuelle]

Its so very sad imagining this about the baby in such distress!

Fortunately I’ve only had 2 calls where babies were in distress, but neither could cry. Babies have died on heating pads, placed by well-meaning parents, without raising much fuss. If the heat is acute and sudden enough, they’ll cry out, but gradual pain tends to weaken them into an eventual whimper or silence.

 

[5W's]

Fortunately I’ve only had 2 calls where babies were in distress, but neither could cry. Babies have died on heating pads, placed by well-meaning parents, without raising much fuss. If the heat is acute and sudden enough, they’ll cry out, but gradual pain tends to weaken them into an eventual whimper or silence.

Even more sadder!

 

[5W's]

Even more sadder!

But at the same time the baby would show other symptoms I'm sure such as vomiting IMO.

 

[HannahJJJ]

Ellen, by her own admission, had a TBI (traumatic brain injury) sustained in 2008/2009 and a “debilitating health condition” for which she quit her job in early 2019, but proceeded to hike in the Gobi desert and have many adventures afterwards. She was 3 years in to a 2-year degree in couples’ counseling. She may not have understood the risks they were undertaking. I am heartbroken by this and what the families must be experiencing, never knowing the “why.”

Does anyone know what the debilitating health condition was/is? Either it was not physical or was but no longer in existence for her to have these hiking adventures. Moo.

 

[jonjon747]

I believe the majority of posters on this thread are shocked by a decision to do the loop that the couple chose to do. But LE has JG's electronic planning map for evidence that that's what he intended. @MrsEmmaPeel has provided a comparative map from the same app ^^^. It can be presumed that the couple was executing JG's plan, since there was evidence they went down one trail and were heading up another. The only way they could make that happen is if they hiked upstream along the river, just as their pre-planning anticipated they would.
Yes unfathomable. But, per LE, that's what happened. There's not a lot of room to argue with the evidence. LE did a thorough and sensitive job.

We all already knew pretty much right from the beginning that JG did search the HCT on his mobile app.
They never originally mentioned at the time that he plotted and planned for the whole loop to hike, and that is finishing off the day hike through SLT.
Why are they changing the story now?
There's just too much discrepancies from the earlier investigation to what they're revealing now.
I really careless how many experts or agencies were involved in the investigation.
They still found nothing.
Where are all the traces or tracking marks from the whole distance they traveled? it's more than a 6 mile hike and not a single point of verifiable evidence was found to convince us that the family was down by the river or the valley.

 

[NSamuelle]

But at the same time the baby would show other symptoms I'm sure such as vomiting IMO.

I can only speak to very limited experience as a paramedic no longer practicing, thankfully not dealing with kids as that would have broken me. Babies (and dogs) with life-threatening but non-obvious injuries, MOO, are the equivalent of patients with sub- or epidural hematomas (e.g., Natasha Richardson). One minute they’re fine, the next they are dying. Sometimes referenced as “walk and die” or “talk and die” patients; OK until they were not.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

They told us yesterday the keys were found in the dirt, on the trail.

Does anyone have a transcript cite to that?

 

[ItalyReader]

I hope you’re not saying that a parent would actually subject their young child, or any child, to Bikram Yoga. I’ve already come to the conclusion there is child and animal abuse here. But something like that would surely be the icing on the cake. I’m sorry, but This case is very upsetting as it is.

Apparently some parents do. I would not.

 

[jonjon747]

No but he used onX

Is there a credible source to verify that JG had used onX?

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Does anyone have a transcript cite to that?

It was in the Q&A after, I believe @Han noted the time. I think it was just after the 26 minute mark. It's very brief, and I missed it, but with the time I heard it too. There is a story there, but we'll never know what it is. "Take the keys and go" or similar.

 

[ItalyReader]

Your suggestions about the possibility she may have been a Practitioner of "hot yoga" and therefore felt acclimated to extreme heat is a good thought, but makes me wonder if there is such a thing as "baby hot yoga."

I'm guessing the answer is "no" to that.

Like many others on this thread, all of my "Why???" questions involve the two dependants that were on the hike.

Imo

The baby did not belong in the heat.
Apparently some parents bring children to hot yoga, and I’ve seen suggestions on bikram sites that children younger than 6 or 9 are too young for it.

Btw my suggestion that she had done hot yoga to some extent, great or small, was a long shot one - just an idea that crossed my mind that could make sense. I’m entirely open to the possibility that she never did hot yoga. MOO.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

It was in the Q&A after, I believe @Han noted the time. I think it was just after the 26 minute mark. It's very brief, and I missed it, but with the time I heard it too. There is a story there, but we'll never know what it is. "Take the keys and go" or similar.

Thanks.

 

[jonjon747]

It sounds like you still think it’s some kind of “death by unknown supernatural force” as y0u posted earlier? I’m sincerely curious what scenario seems more possible to you than heat stroke caused by a number of decisions that created a point of no return? Are all of the agencies that were involved in the investigation coming up with an “absurd and ludicrous” scenario after more than two months? People often do push beyond their limits before they realize they’ve done so. I can tell we all are wondering “what we’re they thinking?” but we will never know, unfortunately. So all we have to work with are the facts we’ve been given after an exhaustive investigation. Their thoughts as they set out that day will remain a mystery, even to investigators. JMO

CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

I never insisted or singled out it was some super natural force that killed the family.
If there's not a solid concrete evidence to prove the family hiked all 6 something miles on that fateful day then what other option is there to even consider?

Many would like some answers such as more detailed data from 2 months of investigation.

What specific hiking trail app did JG use and what time of day he searched, with more specific details like how it was retrieved, cached data or from the app provider validating his search history and activity.

E.G on Phili K's case, GPS data was revealed with a bit of information although I would've liked to see it by drawing making visual presentation of his movements thru GPS data instead of describing in words, that would've been so much better and would praise highly of such magnitude of investigation to a satisfying closure.

 

[5W's]

The initial statement by the sheriff over two months ago of the family being “well prepared” is in glaring contrast to the 85 oz water capacity in a single carrier with no filtration equipment. The lack of hats paired with tank tops is also troublesome.

Given that, I would have to perhaps question the other part of the sheriff’s original statement concerning the near-completion of the loop because to do that hike on that day equipped in that fashion is unfathomable. (Were definitive tracking details offered at the presser?).

I agree with everything you say here. No, nothing definitive in tracking details. Even the footprints in my mind are questionable because in an earlier thread in #5 there was discussion of wind and how fast the wind was happening in that area around the time the family may have been there. So we are left with questions still. IMO.

 

[5W's]

I can only speak to very limited experience as a paramedic no longer practicing, thankfully not dealing with kids as that would have broken me. Babies (and dogs) with life-threatening but non-obvious injuries, MOO, are the equivalent of patients with sub- or epidural hematomas (e.g., Natasha Richardson). One minute they’re fine, the next they are dying. Sometimes referenced as “walk and die” or “talk and die” patients; OK until they were not.

Or being lifeless in their carrier. Either way when there is no movement of the baby that should and would signal something wrong with the child.

 

[Lilibet]

I never insisted or singled out it was some super natural force that killed the family.
If there's not a solid concrete evidence to prove the family hiked all 6 something miles on that fateful day then what other option is there to even consider?

Many would like some answers such as more detailed data from 2 months of investigation.

What specific hiking trail app did JG use and what time of day he searched, with more specific details like how it was retrieved, cached data or from the app provider validating his search history and activity.

E.G on Phili K's case, GPS data was revealed with some bits of details although I would've liked to see it by drawing making visual presentation of his movements thru GPS data instead of describing in words, that would've been so much better and would praise highly of such magnitude of investigation to a satisfying closure.

I understand. I linked your early post that mentioned the possibility of supernatural forces, so I was curious if that was still on the table for you. It sounds as if you have doubts about LE’s conclusions. Unfortunately for us, LE usually doesn’t provide the level of detail we would like. Even though it seems “absurd and ludicrous” to you, it seems that the many very competent agencies are satisfied that the family was on the last part of the loop, based on data they collected, so they gave us the basics. Not telling us every single detail of proof they collected doesn’t mean it wasn’t found. I’m not sure that knowing the details you list would change my personal opinion about what happened. At some point, we have to trust that LE has done the best it can to make sense of this senseless tragedy IMO. And there may be certain facts that the families would prefer to keep private, so that overrides our wish (not need) to know more. It can be frustrating, but it is what it is.

 

[ItalyReader]

During lulls in this forum, checked out some of the other discussions. Too real for me, with real victims. Some of the spirit of this community has rubbed off on me, however.
…. You guys are all so cool. Sorry, I didn’t ‘like’ any of you but love you all and appreciate learning from your thoughts

RBBM RSBM

These comments resonated with me! I too am not very interested in most of the other cases at WS because I find man against man crime disturbing to the point that I can’t sleep when I read them. Man against nature is much more interesting to me (or nature against man….)
I did however wake up a few times in the night thinking about the GC case. How could this happen/what about the dog/what about the baby/what did they know or not know/etc.

and as you say, this forum, this particular group of people is overwhelmingly respectful, intelligent, thoughtful, and kind. Rare, in other words.

soon i will also be leaving WS for the reason above - most of the other cases don’t interest me. Will definitely miss your spirited and thorough conversation!!! Carry on!!!! Bravi tutti.

 

[Lucy Locket]

DBM