CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #6

[Lex Parsimoniae]

I don't know if the OHV road is wide enough for regular vehicles or narrow so only OHVs will fit.

If it is wide enough, I would have expected the LE/SAR to drive down it in their search, but they apparently didn't.

There were several links to trip reports/reviews of the OHV rd that were posted earlier. People do drive full-size 4WD vehicles on it, it's challenging and a problem if you meet people going the other way. But they close it to vehicles in summer because of the fire danger. I believe from photos that it is a single gate across the road that blocks vehicle access to both the Hites Cove OHV rd and the section of rough road going to the start of the Savage Lundy trail. MOO

 

[rahod1]

It's interesting how different perspectives are on this thread. Some may identify with the Gerrish-Chungs because they have kids, they live in CA, they're in tech, they have a dog....... for me, they are a blank. I feel as though I know absolutely zip about them, except the decisions they made that fateful day.

BBM and Snipped
True.. all we'll ever know is their decision to undertake this hike and the preparations they took. However, they could have had an epiphany...a moment of realization of impending doom and salvaged this journey into the depths of hell. Yet, they sojourned on. That for me is the ultimate mystery. There's a word for this..and no one here has used it for good reason.

 

[Lilibet]

The bodies were found out in the open, on a steep slope, a considerable distance from any old mine, making carbon monoxide or some other toxic gas extremely unlikely, but those things were mentioned, while extreme heat was not. Go figure. MOO

Heat was so obvious, it did seem strange it wasn’t mentioned at first. Determining heat as a cause is kind of a process of eliminating other causes, so I wonder if the sheriff was just trying to reassure the public how thorough they were being about investigating all possible causes, rather than implying an immediate assumption about it being heat-related. But yes, you’d think it would have been on the short list of causes he mentioned.

 

[5W's]

Yes it's been debunked that this is even possible with no cell or wifi connection. I came across it in MSM just this morning but (Murphy's Law) can't find it now, so will post instead the link to Snopes' explanation: Can Stranded People with No Cell Service, Dying Battery Still Change Voicemail Greeting?

And, if the lost hiker story you're referring to is the same one that made national news, it's really unrelated as that hiker didn't attempt to change their voicemail message (at least not in the reports I saw) but rather didn't answer the phone when SAR was attempting to contact them, because the call was coming from an unknown number. D'oh!

Missing hiker ignored calls from rescuers because it was an unknown number

Yes you are correct. I mistakenly and automatically thought of this hiker who ignored calls from SAR. I was just as you are pointing out that it had been debunked. After reading about the tragedy here with the JG/EC family my mind went straight to "Oh no that's not safe!" Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[5W's]

There is precedent for being charged with animal cruelty when a dog dies of heat exhaustion on a hike. It happened in 2017. The dog died, and the humans were suffering as well but were rescued in time. I’m not sure it would’ve been charged in this case, had the parents survived, but there are “bad facts” in the EC/JG tragedy: little water, no bowl, and areas with no river water access, plus extreme heat that kills even with enough water, and relatively advanced age in a thick-coated dog. Woman cited for animal cruelty after dog dies on Scottsdale hike | 12news.com

From 2017 case:
“It's too hot to breathe almost," said Scottsdale dog owner Sean Rawlings. "It sounds like someone doesn't have any common sense."

Scott Hamilton [is] the planner for the City of Scottsdale's McDowell Sonoran Preserve, which is home to the Lost Dog Wash Trail. He said the area can be difficult.

"The Lost Dog Wash trail is typical of (the) preserve. It's mountainous, rocky and there's very little shade," Scott Hamilton told 12 News.”

A thought: If JG/EC were alive they would say what actually happened and why they were on this hike in this temperature with their vulnerable dependents. So its possible they wouldn't be charged if they were trying escape from a potential problem of some kind. However, this hike was not survivable.

 

[5W's]

Reposting as this was deleted due to being a response to a deleted post.

I agree 100% about this case being tragic and I absolutely empathize with the family.

At the very same time, I ask myself:

how would this story be viewed if:

- this family had been physically unattractive

- this family had been in a very low economic threshold

- the family looked different?

- the parents had survived but baby and dog perished

- or any combination of the above?


I have read a lot of comments here about “what a beautiful family” they were and lots of mention of their high economic status, I just don’t know if their beauty or privilege should excuse tragic mistakes.


also I think about how ignorance of the law is no excuse.


Asking in a different way, if the parents had survived but baby died, and if they were of
a different “look” OR economic OR attractiveness OR education category, would this story be viewed with as much sympathy?

Would the surviving parents face any consequences, legal or otherwise, for the death of their child?


If they had had 2 children, and one died and the other survived, would the surviving child be placed in protective child services custody while the parents were investigated?

In some families this would be the case - the children would be taken from the parents. Ask a social worker; they are experts here.

Lets try posting this again hopefully it works this time around.
I personally think when it comes to the strange or bizarre aspects of a case, the mystery of what happened is what draws my attention, other factors such as race, attractiveness, or socio-economic status don't matter. The more mysterious the case the longer it will be etched in the public's mind. Take for example 9 yr. old Asha Degree's disappearance in 2000. Or the young black man who disappeared while with a work crew as he was behind the others, ( I don't remember the name at the moment) change had fallen out of his pocket as if he had been turned upside down, part of his clothing had been caught in the fence next to the roadway where his crew was working in a rural area, anyways so many bizarre aspects to his case even though he disappeared in the 90's (I believe) we still wonder what happened to him. Just like the JG/EC Family "what made them be found where they were?" "How did they get there? Its not possible they walked as far as they did without dying sooner!

 

[Megnut]

Is it possible they powered faster than we imagine and by the time the temperatures became uncomfortable, they felt they were close to water and pushed on, only to have the dog or baby quickly fall into distress? So staying put in the water was not viable, their only hope -- to reach the car and get help? It couldn't have been a static or linear process for them -- still, if they made it a couple miles before it got hellish, maybe the water seemed like the solution, to hunker down, so they pushed forward, until an emergency changed everything.

JMO

 

[HannahJJJ]

IMO I doubt JG told EC what to wear on the hike. That had to have been her decision.

IMO we have to be careful not to fall into sexist (or ageist) stereotyping to fill in a lacuna in our information. It's tempting to say he was taking the lead in it all, but she was clearly making decisions herself that were part of the package of errors. It's possible she took the lead in all things hiking, even: we don't know.

Moo. It "appears" that JG was the One who mapped/researched the hike. If it "was" his intention that morning that they do this specific hike, it stands to reason that he at least approved of what EC was wearing/gave some direction as to appropriate clothing for such a hike and the supplies they should take. Moo.

 

[RickshawFan]

Moo. It "appears" that JG was the One who mapped/researched the hike. If it "was" his intention that morning that they do this specific hike, it stands to reason that he at least approved of what EC was wearing/gave some direction as to appropriate clothing for such a hike and the supplies they should take. Moo.

IMO most women don't get apparel directives from the men in their life for sports activities. Women hikers with any kind of experience know what's appropriate to wear in sunny hot conditions on a trail if that's on the schedule. Same with guys. They may get it wrong, but outfit choice is on them. The biggest red flag in all of this IMO: no hats.

I'm a little concerned that it's so difficult to wrap a head around two people making decisions which created a perfect storm of a catastrophe, that we run the risk of piling the responsibility on one person. There were two people here. The responsibility was shared.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Article from a few days ago, no new information, bbm:

“That final hike was supposed to be a day-long family outing with the dog, Oski, an 8-year-old Aussie/Akita mix. The dog was also killed.

“They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there,” Briese said at the time.”
Redirect Notice

In the bolded text he referred to them in the present tense, so that quote may have been given between 2:00 am —(ETA: fixed time) 9:30 am during the search?

The first post on the original thread began with them being found deceased. I was curious as to what was initially reported.

ETA: I’m interested in this from the viewpoint of what the SAR teams may have been told. How that input may have been a factor in the search.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Article from a few days ago, no new information, bbm:

“That final hike was supposed to be a day-long family outing with the dog, Oski, an 8-year-old Aussie/Akita mix. The dog was also killed.

“They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there,” Briese said at the time.”
Redirect Notice

In the bolded text he referred to them in the present tense, so that quote may have been given between 2:00 am —11:00 am during the search?

The first post on the original thread began with them being found deceased. I was curious as to what was initially reported.

ETA: I’m interested in this from the viewpoint of what the SAR teams may have been told. How that input may have been a factor in the search.

The transcript from the last presser says: "Tuesday, August 17th, at 9:30am, Search and Rescue teams located Jonathan, Ellen, Miju and Oski approximately 1.6 miles from their vehicle on the Savage Lundy Trail deceased." Initially MSM said they were found at 11 am, but apparently that was an error. There was more to your bolded quote too: “They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there, and it appears it was a day hike,” Briese said of their final hike together." That makes it sound like his comment came after they were found, with just day hiking gear. I think it likely that it didn't become a big news story until they were found, too. So I'm thinking his use of present tense was just an error in the transition between the search and the recovery phases. MOO.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

They lived there, they would have known that cool mornings quickly heat up. And the minimal amount of water they brought wasn’t enough for humans and dog even on a short hike.

Such a puzzle.

I think they liked to travel light and fast and on that day it was not possible. I think they were overconfident re: heat and that was a big part of the misjudgments that day. Very sad, hopefully others will learn from this. But, since this happened after all the Kreycik publicity, think it will take more of a directed campaign. Phrases like "brain damage," "CPS" and "animal cruelty charges" as being in play and trails being announced as closed when there are extreme heat warnings might chip away at some of the denial. Where I live people start hiking up a mountain close to dusk in flip flops and have to be rescued more often than you would believe. Often with no supplies or water in high heat and humidity. People think of what they want to do, what fits with their other activities and commitments (Kreycik was delayed by an Amazon return) and not much else seems to register.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The transcript from the last presser says: "Tuesday, August 17th, at 9:30am, Search and Rescue teams located Jonathan, Ellen, Miju and Oski approximately 1.6 miles from their vehicle on the Savage Lundy Trail deceased." Initially MSM said they were found at 11 am, but apparently that was an error. There was more to your bolded quote too: “They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there, and it appears it was a day hike,” Briese said of their final hike together." That makes it sound like his comment came after they were found, with just day hiking gear. I think it likely that it didn't become a big news story until they were found, too. So I'm thinking his use of present tense was just an error in the transition between the search and the recovery phases. MOO.

Thank you—I corrected the time found in my post based on what you pointed out.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Is it possible they powered faster than we imagine and by the time the temperatures became uncomfortable, they felt they were close to water and pushed on, only to have the dog or baby quickly fall into distress? So staying put in the water was not viable, their only hope -- to reach the car and get help? It couldn't have been a static or linear process for them -- still, if they made it a couple miles before it got hellish, maybe the water seemed like the solution, to hunker down, so they pushed forward, until an emergency changed everything.

JMO

They started about 8 am, rested and ready to hike, temperature in the low 70's. It's all downhill to the river, so that would be the fastest, easiest, most comfortable part of the hike. At 3 mph, they could have gotten to the river in an hour. Down there, at that time, it's estimated it was 92F. I read a recommendation that babies shouldn't be exposed to temperatures over 90F, and at that temperature we wet down our dog to keep her comfortable during a walk. So from then on, it's getting increasingly dangerous for the baby and dog as the temperature soared to as much as 109F. Some of the trees along the river survived the fire, so there would be some shade, which would have helped. A cave or recess in the rock would also provide shade and cooler temps, if there was one. But the river was there for sure, immersing in the water, or using evaporation on your skin or clothes would have kept them alive. They would even have to be careful not to get the baby too cool. I don't think they did this, if they had, they might have started up the Savage Lundy trail, but realized they were better off staying at the river until it cooled off. MOO

 

[Megnut]

Staying by the river and hiking back out at or before sun up might've saved lives but IMO time in the water may have buffered the mounting heat, but the two things the river couldn't yield-- a veterinarian or a pediatrician. I think they had no choice but to make a run for it, desperate for aid. IMO the advanced hour, the advance mercury, the advanced exertion created this tragic end.

JMO

 

[Yvettea]

The unanswered question. Why did they find themselves in an emergency situation? The water they took was completely inadequate for a long hike. My participation here has convinced me of that much.

IMO we know some of what EC and JG did and we know what it appears they intended to do.

• Their clothing
• Their choice to take Miju and Oski
• 2 1/2 liters of water
• The high temperatures in the afternoon

All indicate IMO that they intended a short hike in the morning down and back the wide OHV road their possible destination Marble Point, not a hike up a narrow trail choked by chapparal in extreme temperatures.

Yes, something lead to a different result but I doubt we will ever know what it was unless analysis of the phone reveals something. And so the things I’ve listed lead to everyone’s death from extreme heat.

Searching for a trail on an app, even as recently as the day before, doesn’t prove intention to take the trail. It could just as easily lead to a decision not to take the full loop. At least they were aware the SLT existed when they apparently had to change their plans. It’s regrettable the trail was so inadequate for return from the canyon and that they weren’t prepared for an extreme contingency.

 

[lotus777]

IMO most women don't get apparel directives from the men in their life for sports activities. Women hikers with any kind of experience know what's appropriate to wear in sunny hot conditions on a trail if that's on the schedule. Same with guys. They may get it wrong, but outfit choice is on them. The biggest red flag in all of this IMO: no hats.

I'm a little concerned that it's so difficult to wrap a head around two people making decisions which created a perfect storm of a catastrophe, that we run the risk of piling the responsibility on one person. There were two people here. The responsibility was shared.

I have to disagree... I think you're mischaracterizing one partner asking the partner who's likely done more research of the hike in question as "women getting apparel directives."

If JG did most of the research for this hike (which he may have based on his mapping the trail), it's certainly reasonable that EC might have asked him what he could tell her about the weather or appropriate apparel. Same if the female partner had planned it. Sharing that kind of information is normal. Of course we don't know if this is what happened, but it's not unlikely.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

That was before I joined, wow, @MrsEmmaPeel nailed it on the 14th post!

thanks for the nod, @Lex Parsimoniae. I'm a longtime Daily Mail reader which is where I saw the story. "Mysterious" and "Unexplained" are always hype. (Daily Mail, after all.) I also suspected the Sheriff Briese didn't know as much about heatstroke as I did after 1000 WS posts on Philip Kreycik. (wink, wink)

The only things that made this story newsworthy -imo- were the overall attractiveness and privilege of the young family, deaths of a baby and dog, and no witnesses. People had been dying all summer of heat-related accidents, and for me, this fit the bill. Had just one person made it out alive, we wouldn't be here today.

(Before you judge me for reading the Daily Mail, I also read the Washington Post, the LA Times, The Guardian, The New Yorker, and most recently all seven volumes of In Search of Lost Time. Human nature is human nature wherever you find compelling stories. )

 

[RickshawFan]

The transcript from the last presser says: "Tuesday, August 17th, at 9:30am, Search and Rescue teams located Jonathan, Ellen, Miju and Oski approximately 1.6 miles from their vehicle on the Savage Lundy Trail deceased." Initially MSM said they were found at 11 am, but apparently that was an error. There was more to your bolded quote too: “They’re smart, they know hiking and what type of gear you need or don’t need for the amount of time you’re out there, and it appears it was a day hike,” Briese said of their final hike together." That makes it sound like his comment came after they were found, with just day hiking gear. I think it likely that it didn't become a big news story until they were found, too. So I'm thinking his use of present tense was just an error in the transition between the search and the recovery phases. MOO.

He changed his mind later about the gear and the amount you need and don't need [water would be key].

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I believe LE deeply regretted the sensationalism of their first press releases and redeemed themselves by keeping tight lips thereafter. They seemed to wise up, which is to their credit.