Found Deceased CA - Kiely Rodni missing from Party Near Prosser Family Campground in Truckee #8

[EmmieA]

Excuse my rough drawing. I was confused when Doug from AWP said the front of the car was facing away from the shore, so I had to work it out for myself if it was possible, on a slope, with the car on it's roof. I think a previous poster (sorry, not sure who it was) was right postulating that the car was more on it's hood and front windshield with the boot/trunk sticking up, than on it's actual roof. It seems possible, with the car facing either way.

EBM to clarify that Doug said the car was facing away from the shore? I am now confusing myself! But either way looks possible.

Thank you for your drawing! That actually makes a lot of sense because the front end is heavier so it could have been lower than the back end and then eventually her body would float to the higher point, which would be the hatch back.

 

[RedHaus]

Terrible accident involving a 16 year old, one car, one occupant, booze and maybe drugs.

All the chit chat and interviews by the kids and the divers are meaningless.

Mary Jo ended up in the rear window after Ted drove her into the river when he "missed" the bridge.

It is not odd that this happens.

The car was found with one occupant per LE. But I wonder how can you know there was one occupant when the car went into Prosser Lake?

Since you cite Mary Jo, could this not have been a Chappaquiddick Incident? A tragic accident with someone possibly culpable of leaving the scene?

ET: fix format

 

[RedHaus]

Have been skimming some posts; have not given detailed thought to the mechanics of position of car or body, but have not seen this possibility mentioned (apologies if it has / is too impractical): Could KR have been toward the back of the vehicle while still alive (adjusting something; napping; using laptop; whatever), with the car accidentally entering the water (maybe it wasn't fully in park; needed parking brake engaged but it wasn't; managed to knock gearshift with foot; whatever)? Also wondering: Is there any sort of tide and/or current there, significant enough to affect a car, either directly (carrying it, or impacting buoyancy, eg) or indirectly (as by changing the sand it might be on, eg)?

Yes @NYanon. I postulated that very scenario very early on, like T2 or 3.

KR could have driven her car down to the beach purposely to get away from the party noise and 'sleep it off' for a while in the back seat before driving home. Put the car in neutral accidentally, without a parking brake. And somehow the car rolled into the water while she was conked out. The rest is history. All IMO.

That said I have personally moved far away from that scenario given more data.

But it's nice to see a like mind!

 

[tayaway]

Hypothetically, does anyone know if an onboard EDR records data if the engine is not running at the time of an incident?

For instance if KR's car was put in neutral gear and pushed or somehow unaided drifted down a slope?

All speculation but I am very curious.

ET: neutralize the hypothetical scenario so either accident or foul play.

Here's the info blurb on the car EDR, from the 2013 Honda CR-V owner manual (p21) eta: BBM for relevant info so you don't have to read through it all. ETA: So, the EDR will not record under normal driving conditions including putting the car in neutral to let it coast - like somebody else noted, there'd need to be a sign of accident, like air bags going off.

Event Data Recorders This vehicle is equipped with an event data recorder (EDR).

The main purpose of an EDR is to record, in certain crash or near crash-like situations, such as an air bag deployment or hitting a road obstacle, data that will assist in understanding how a vehicle’s systems performed. The EDR is designed to record data related to vehicle dynamics and safety systems for a short period of time, typically 30 seconds or less. The EDR in this vehicle is designed to record such data as: • How various systems in your vehicle were operating; • Whether or not the driver and passenger safety belts were buckled/fastened; • How far (if at all) the driver was depressing the accelerator and/or brake pedal; and, • How fast the vehicle was traveling.

These data can help provide a better understanding of the circumstances in which crashes and injuries occur. NOTE: EDR data are recorded by your vehicle only if a non-trivial crash situation occurs; no data are recorded by the EDR under normal driving conditions and no personal data (e.g., name, gender, age, and crash location) are recorded. However, other parties, such as law enforcement, could combine the EDR data with the type of personally identifying data routinely acquired during a crash investigation. WARNING: This product contains or emits chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.

To read data recorded by an EDR, special equipment is required, and access to the vehicle or the EDR is needed. In addition to the vehicle manufacturer, other parties, such as law enforcement, that have the special equipment, can read the information if they have access to the vehicle or the EDR.

The data belongs to the vehicle owner and may not be accessed by anyone else except as legally required or with the permission of the vehicle owner. Service Diagnostic R

 

[getthefax]

Hypothetically, does anyone know if an onboard EDR records data if the engine is not running at the time of an incident?

For instance if KR's car was put in neutral gear and pushed or somehow unaided drifted down a slope?

All speculation but I am very curious.

ET: neutralize the hypothetical scenario so either accident or foul play.

Yes. The EDR will not work if the car is not on/engine running. So the investigators will know immediately whether the car engine was running when it entered the water.

 

[Speculaytor]

A couple of things:

If you are going to drive drunk, and be driving home to your parents, wouldn't you take all of the alcohol, and empty alcohol containers out of your car first?

Do we know if LE searched the bottom of the lake, where the car was found, after or just before it was pulled out of the water?

 

[getthefax]

The car was found with one occupant per LE. But I wonder how can you know there was one occupant when the car went into Prosser Lake?

Since you cite Mary Jo, could this not have been a Chappaquiddick Incident? A tragic accident with someone possibly culpable of leaving the scene?

ET: fix format

It could be—that said, as long as the airbags were not turned off, the EDR will tell investigators whether there was one or two (or more) occupants based on the airbag sensors in the front seat, and/or the seatbelt sensors for all seats.

So this info, in all probability, is already available to LE.

Again, they have a whole lot of evidence we have not been able to see.

 

[getthefax]

Hopefully autopsy results would be able to discern whether she had a concussion at all, and if so, whether a coup-contracoup injury that produced a concussion were caused by a boxing glove-covered fist or a steering wheel or hard surface in the car’s interior.
Again, COD and tox will be very enlightening.

 

[tayaway]

It could be—that said, as long as the airbags were not turned off, the EDR will tell investigators whether there was one or two (or more) occupants based on the airbag and seatbelt sensors.

So this info, in all probability, is available to LE.

The EDR only records info about accidents while the car is on, so if the car was running and somebody put it in neutral, letting it coast down into the water, is that enough to initiate recording? eta: Would it record anything and if so, at what point? When the car rolled over in the water? If the car was driven in reverse, so that it flipped the way it was found, when would the EDR begin recording? Are there water sensors that would pick up where the car is?

 

[getthefax]

The EDR only records info about accidents while the car is on, so if the car was running and somebody put it in neutral, letting it coast down into the water, is that enough to initiate recording?

Yes. If the engine is on, the sensors in the seats are functional and the engine and systems status will be recorded for about 20 seconds before a crash and about 5 seconds after a crash (even in water). There’s a federal regulation (part 563) that governs these EDRs and dictates that they must work in the event there is a change in velocity of 5 MPH or greater

I think this means they would be suspicious if the EDR were on and recording and there were no change in velocity (meaning slow roll into the water), or if it weren’t recording at all (engine not on).

Earlier on in T1/T2/T3 there has been a lot of discussion about EDR data—LE will have this data And have already formed opinions based on what it points to. This and COD/toxicology will be the most revealing first major pieces of information.

Here’s another document about EDR reports:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2014/INOT-DP14003-61944.pdf

 

[jbennett]

If you are going to drive drunk, and be driving home to your parents, wouldn't you take all of the alcohol, and empty alcohol containers out of your car first?

Not if your parents know where you were at and what you were doing and didn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

[getthefax]

A couple of things:

If you are going to drive drunk, and be driving home to your parents, wouldn't you take all of the alcohol, and empty alcohol containers out of your car first?

Do we know if LE searched the bottom of the lake, where the car was found, after or just before it was pulled out of the water?

I thought about this a lot since the AWP video. The only thing I can think is that a) she was really drunk and in no shape to consider the trash in the rear seat of her car, or b) these folks were partying in a place that didn’t have trash cans—it was not a proper camp ground (so maybe since they’re typically driving back roads home, they generally pack trash out)?
This detail did stand out to me (blunts and cans in the car), but drunk people (and especially drunk kids) often do things that seem inexplicable.
I would agree that failure to clean out the evidence of partying in the car is something that should be investigated further, but also, drunk people are often found with containers in their cars.

 

[tayaway]

Yes. If the engine is on, the sensors in the seats are functional and the engine and systems status will be recorded for about 20 seconds before a crash and about 5 seconds after a crash (even in water). There’s a federal regulation (part 563) that governs these EDRs and dictates that they must work in the event there is a change in velocity of 5 MPH or greater

I think this means they would be suspicious if the EDR were on and recording and there were no change in velocity (meaning slow roll into the water), or if it weren’t recording at all (engine not on).

Earlier on in T1/T2/T3 there has been a lot of discussion about EDR data—LE will have this data And have already formed opinions based on what it points to. This and COD/toxicology will be the most revealing first major pieces of information.

Here’s another document about EDR reports:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2014/INOT-DP14003-61944.pdf

Ok, that's exactly the type of answer I was looking for! And thanks also for the doc't, I couldn't find anything decent.

 

[Speculaytor]

Not if your parents know where you were at and what you were doing and didn't seem to have a problem with it.

I'd be worried about being pulled over too. And I didn't see any information about mom knowing these were drinking parties, or that Kiely would be drinking and driving? It is my impression that she did not know, but that is MOO.

 

[jbennett]

I'd be worried about being pulled over too. And I didn't see any information about mom knowing these were drinking parties, or that Kiely would be drinking and driving? It is my impression that she did not know, but that is MOO.

IMOO, as the mother of a child the same age, and the fact that these parties had been happening for years and were known throughout the community, it would be very naive of her not to know. As well as the fact that she stated Kiely had been in a situation before where she was drinking and would not drive home. Maybe she was under the impression that Kiely was DD that night so she wasn't worried about her driving drunk. Just thinking back to teenaged days and I wouldn't worry about cleaning out the alcohol if my mom knew where I was and what was going on there, whether or not I was partaking wouldn't matter.
As far as getting pulled over, there are a lot of things IMOO that lead me to believe that also was not an issue or might not be an issue in this community. Again, JMO.

 

[getthefax]

I'd be worried about being pulled over too. And I didn't see any information about mom knowing these were drinking parties, or that Kiely would be drinking and driving? It is my impression that she did not know, but that is MOO.

It would be very unusual to be a parent of a teen these days and not know that kids are going to be exposed to, and very well may, drink and smoke pot at teen parties.

KR was 16, but let’s be real for a moment— she had tattoos, piercings, a “MILF” sticker on her laptop, another ironic sticker that said D.A.B. (Acronym for “drugs are bad” but also spells out DAB, which is a form of THC people smoke) and social media posts with her friends where pot was being used and alcohol was being mentioned.

Either her parents never noticed these things or—more likely, IMO—these things just simply didn’t register as potentially harmful in any way (they’re gentle optimistic mountain folks who allowed their daughter a lot of freedom of self-expression, and their daughter was a high performing student); perhaps they simply didn’t realize or think their daughter was capable of actually using pot/partying, but was more just experimenting with different social personae.

This is not intended to shade the family in any way—more to describe the subtle disconnect between the partying we observed and the way the parents characterized their daughter’s typical behavior.

I don’t blame KR’s parents at all for believing their daughter would always behave responsibly—she had straight A’s and hadn’t been in any trouble before. That just doesn’t mean she never did those things--only that she wasn’t discovered. We just don’t know what the history is there, but her friends did say she was planning to get “effed up” that night.
All MOO.

 

[Beekarina]

Re: The "friendly fights" and possible injuries

1-Parents and awareness: Hoodies and baggy clothing seem pretty popular with this set and with young people in general, so unless a young person walked in with something like facial lacerations, a parent might never know. I don't think most people who have teens or young adults are looking closely at their bodies the way you would with younger kids who still need help with a bath, with changing clothes, etc. Teens can, and do, hide things.

2-Outdoor lifestyle=a couple of bruises? We were rock climbing, riding bikes, I slipped on a hiking trail, etc if anyone DID notice. Easily explained.

It has crossed my mind that a concussion or a more serious head injury could also possibly explain Kiely going from texting her mother coherently at 11:30, to being described as "in no mind to drive" not long after. It could explain her being disoriented enough to drive into the reservoir. It could explain her acting weird with Roadside Nick. It could explain suddenly passing away and other people panicking.

 

[Beekarina]

Re: small towns, adults/parents, and parties

Also, to understand consider for many people who live in small towns, especially true if you grow up there and that is what you have always known (no idea if this is true for THIS family, but for many of the partygoers I'm sure it is), there is a sense of "Bad Things Never Happen Here". I also think with the pandemic, a lot of parents feel as though kids missed out on a lot of traditional high school memories, and feel sad about that, so things like a Senior Party? They're possibly going to be a bit more permissive, on average.

Opinion only, based on personal experiences.

 

[Wallendo]

Yes. If the engine is on, the sensors in the seats are functional and the engine and systems status will be recorded for about 20 seconds before a crash and about 5 seconds after a crash (even in water). There’s a federal regulation (part 563) that governs these EDRs and dictates that they must work in the event there is a change in velocity of 5 MPH or greater

I think this means they would be suspicious if the EDR were on and recording and there were no change in velocity (meaning slow roll into the water), or if it weren’t recording at all (engine not on).

Earlier on in T1/T2/T3 there has been a lot of discussion about EDR data—LE will have this data And have already formed opinions based on what it points to. This and COD/toxicology will be the most revealing first major pieces of information.

Here’s another document about EDR reports:

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/inv/2014/INOT-DP14003-61944.pdf

This is part 563 from the government website. Federal Register :: Request Access .

Trigger threshold means a change in vehicle velocity, in the longitudinal direction, that equals or exceeds 8 km/h within a 150 ms interval. For vehicles that record “delta-V, lateral,” trigger threshold means a change in vehicle velocity in either the longitudinal or lateral direction that equals or exceeds 8 km/h within a 150 ms interval.

This works out to a change of about 33 MPH over one second. The car would have to be moving fairly rapidly to trigger this. Is there some other trigger that would set off the EDR.

The document also has a definition for "time zero" that is closer to 25 MPH/second (0.5 MPH / 20ms).

 

[getthefax]

This is part 563 from the government website. Federal Register :: Request Access .



This works out to a change of about 33 MPH over one second. The car would have to be moving fairly rapidly to trigger this. Is there some other trigger that would set off the EDR.

The document also has a definition for "time zero" that is closer to 25 MPH/second (0.5 MPH / 20ms).

MOO, but, respectfully, I think that is a very high estimate of what would trigger the EDR.

Pretty sure they have calibrated these EDRs for MAIT and insurance company use, and the vast majority of incidents happen at lower speeds (rear-enders at stop signs, etc)—the info would be very useful to insurance companies when determining fault and also accuracy of driver/passenger statements following an accident.

I will re-review.