GUILTY CA - Lana Clarkson, 40, fatally shot, Alhambra, 3 Feb 2003

  • #1,321
  • #1,322
Hiya Jeanna,

If a judge (particularly Judge Fiddler) found that a guy of Spector's age (and so-called intelligence), with so many years of "pulling gun experience" just ACCIDENTALLY pulled the trigger while he had the gun jammed in some lady's mouth, I would s**t my pants. :blushing:

W

I actually think that's exactly what happened. I don't think Spector killed Lana on purpose. Is that what you think? I think he was doing his normal routine by pointing the gun at the girl she she wouldn't leave and either Lana got mad and tried to take the gun from him or some other accident occurred, but I think that gun was fired by mistake.
 
  • #1,323
I'm confused! I thought the judge said, and both prosecutors & defense agreed, that manslaughter didn't apply here. So do you mean that if the jury returned a guilty of 2nd degree murder, that he'd now change his mind and say it was manslaughter? I know stranger things have happened in Massachusetts! :)

Yup, he could.
 
  • #1,324
  • #1,325
Yup, he could.
When I thought about what you posted, the one case that came to mind immediately was Woodward. Boy did that judge have a mind of his own! I think Judge Fidler is more "sane" (for lack of a better word) though.
 
  • #1,326
Editing this message...

W
 
  • #1,327
Closing arguments start Weds., Sept. 5 (supposedly at 9:00am). :)
Thank you so much, panthera!
I gotta do some painting today and didn't want to miss anything.
 
  • #1,328
Hiya Jeana,

You wrote:
>>I actually think that's exactly what happened. I don't think Spector killed Lana on purpose. Is that what you think? I think he was doing his normal routine by pointing the gun at the girl she she wouldn't leave and either Lana got mad and tried to take the gun from him or some other accident occurred, but I think that gun was fired by mistake.<<

You know Jeana, this is a tough one to answer... I suppose it is tough because of differing ways of thinking, perhaps semantics, perhaps trains of thought and I can see now that I have a whole lot more thinking to do...

Editing this message...

W


I cannot see Spector having any motive to purposely murder her in cold blood.
 
  • #1,329
Reposting...

Hiya Jeana,

You wrote:
>>I actually think that's exactly what happened. I don't think Spector killed Lana on purpose. Is that what you think? I think he was doing his normal routine by pointing the gun at the girl she she wouldn't leave and either Lana got mad and tried to take the gun from him or some other accident occurred, but I think that gun was fired by mistake.<<

You know Jeana, this is a tough one to answer... I suppose it is tough because of differing ways of thinking, perhaps semantics, perhaps trains of thought and I can see now that I have a whole lot more thinking to do... I'm struggling to put this into words.

You see, for me, pulling and pointing a gun is an immediate threat and intent to kill. That is where it starts for me. If I don't want anyone shot by a gun I am holding and pointing, I don't pull or point the gun in the first place. Anyone with any experience with a gun realizes that anything can happen after they place a gun on the scene, they factor the whole scenario into the picture, they know that someone can be shot, they take responsibility. If the person who the gun was originally pointed at gets shot, to me there can be no consideration that this was an accident. You don't pull a gun if you don't want someone shot.

Accident, mistake, no...

W
 
  • #1,330
Reposting...

.

You see, for me, pulling and pointing a gun is an immediate threat and intent to kill. That is where it starts for me. If I don't want anyone shot by a gun I am holding and pointing, I don't pull or point the gun in the first place. Anyone with any experience with a gun realizes that anything can happen after they place a gun on the scene, they factor the whole scenario into the picture, they know that someone can be shot, they take responsibility. If the person who the gun was originally pointed at gets shot, to me there can be no consideration that this was an accident. You don't pull a gun if you don't want someone shot.

Accident, mistake, no...

W
I agree. The gun was loaded and placed inside her mouth! It's not like he was even cleaning it and it accidentally went off. There is nothing accidental about this. Didn't he think she might fight him and the gun could go off? What did he think would happen if it did, inside her mouth? Didn't he realize that shot could/would be fatal? :eek:
 
  • #1,331
Thank you so much, panthera!
I gotta do some painting today and didn't want to miss anything.
Lucky you! Today was one of my busiest days at work and tomorrow might be more of the same (Holiday weekend fell at the beginning of the month) ~ so looks like I'll just be catching up at night. Take good notes everyone! :D
 
  • #1,332
I cannot see Spector having any motive to purposely murder her in cold blood.
For the thrill of it? He might have wanted to kill someone to see how it felt, but never before had the balls to actually do so. The other women were those who knew him and Lana didn't. Perhaps in his mind, Lana was nothing.

I agree with the others who say you don't put a gun into the equation unless you intend to use it for a specific reason, whether that's self defense or to hunt with. Phil Spector has had guns for years. He's also a crime buff, following the OJ case. Phil IMO knew guns can be dangerous if handled improperly or misused. He knew that if he pulled a gun on a woman, she'd be frightened. If he stuck it into her mouth, she'd be even more frightened.
That thrills him.
 
  • #1,333
Well, we finally made it to closing arguments. I'm predicting the final slaughter of Lana's bestest friends Jennifer and Pie. Last week, AJ's motion including for the three's phone records was granted by the Judge. Just how many phone calls transpired will be revealed, and down the tubes they both go. Karma will rule, and they will both be completely discredited, and no one will trust Pie or Jennifer ever again.
 
  • #1,334
  • #1,335
Wow, y'all . Alan Jackson gave me goosebumps the way he started closing arguments.
This is gonna be good!
 
  • #1,336
If you could have said anything to Lana in the parking lot at the House of Blues, what would it have been?

DON'T GO!

DON'T GO!

DON'T GO!

Exactly...

W
 
  • #1,337
>>...Anyone with any experience with a gun realizes that anything can happen after they place a gun on the scene, they factor the whole scenario into the picture, they know that someone can be shot, they take responsibility. If the person who the gun was originally pointed at gets shot, to me there can be no consideration that this was an accident. You don't pull a gun if you don't want someone shot...<<

Jackson just repeated it and expanded it...

IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW THE GUN WENT OFF... He pointed, he was threatening her, he had MALICE in his mind...he knew the danger...

What if she slapped his hand... What if he had a tremor... What if there was an earthquake... IT DOESN'T MATTER, if the gun goes off in any circumstance, the crime is 2nd degree murder...

HOW did that gun get in her mouth... He was pointing that gun at the most vital organ in her body...her brain.

W
 
  • #1,338
Alan Jackson is awesome!!!!
 
  • #1,339
Break for lunch.

Jackson has been very "human" in his closing argument. He is "meeting" with the jury in a real and personal way, in my opinion.

Prior to lunch, he was going through and tackling a number of issues which could help the jury discern whether the defense had been trustworthy or manipulative. The whole idea is to be truthful, but the defense doesn't have to say a word, or they can throw money at witnesses and have them show up in a TuTu if they want. So...were they trustworthy or manipulative, and he is walking the jury through a number of things that shows the manipulation.

He attacked issues like the paramedic that said Lana was drunk a year before when she broke her wrists. He brought up how appalling that a "year prior" they were trying to fish up something like that, but guess what, it didn't work because they found the OTHER more experienced and long term paramedic who attended Lana, then they brought forth the records that indicated she was not noted to be drunk.

He pointed out that Tawni Tyndall (sp?), the defense investigator did not represent herself to people as being from the defense of Phil Spector, nor did she record and provide transcripts of people she approached/interviewed. If she had, there would have been transcripts to share with the prosecution, even as the prosecution shared transcripts with the defense. The question was, "What is there to hide if we are looking for the truth? Well, the intimation was "manipulation" -- they didn't want information from Liverpool the other paramedic, because he said "no drunkeness."

At anyrate, Jackson went through trustworthy or manipulation, bringing up things like Paxil, "Oh she was depressed." WRONG, that was prescribed for headaches, but that isn't what the defense wanted you to think. He brought up one of the so-called experts stating that "depression" was the leading reason for depression. WRONG, Jackson qualified that it was not depression, but rather a certan type of clinical issue with depression that was responsible (escapes me), and that wasn't Lana's case.

Jackson brought up what he called was a racist statement used by the defense, the term "siesta" in terms of discussing Adriano. i.e. he was taking a "siesta" when the whole thing hit. He brought up, "We have a term for that, it is called NAP, and he was not taking a siesta or a nap" -- he qualified that Adriano was Brazilian, spoke Portuguese, and that he was an officer for 8 or 9 years in the service, so damn well knew the sound of gunfire. He brought up that Adriano had no problem understanding the 911 people when they were asking him questions, though they may have had a hard time understanding him. He did mention that the 911 people repetitively ask the same question to keep people on the line, so the jurors wouldn't think that Adriano had a problem communicating his words -- just that 911 repeats questions. Adriano knew very well what they were asking. He also damn well knew what to do in such a case, CALL FOR HELP. He made a first call to some contact of Spector, and then an immediate 2nd call to 911. He was concerned, and did the right thing immediately, you could hear it in his voice (they played the tapes and showed the transcript of them).

In essence, Jackson is pointing out the ridiculous red herrings the defense has tried to sling across the jury's path, asking them "trustworthy or manipulative."

The jury was cut loose for lunch, then the defense tried to get a mistrial declared based on a number of items. Judge said no mistrial, denied a number of things they asked for, and told Jackson "you can clean this or that up, or I will." Jackson said that he would.

Closing arguments should begin again in the next 10 minutes or so. I am praying for the wisdom of Jackson and the hearing of the jury. I think we all know that Lana had better things to do than sit in a chair near Spector's door and blow herself away.

Interestingly, this AM prior to closing arguments, a few of the news commentators on Court TV did mock closing arguments. Lisa Bloom made an important point, if this was suicide, she didn't leave a message for her loved ones...

No way, that was NOT Lana's style. You can damn well bet this was NOT suicide. HAD she had that in her mind, she would have left a message, she was a writer and a journaler. Good point Lisa Bloom.

Oddly, both Bloom and Politan (I think) brought up the DNA on the "private parts of Lana and Spector, oh I did not like that. I cannot believe for a moment that Lana let Spector play with her (he might have accosted her) and I sure as hell don't think she fished in his britches. No way...

more to come, more closing arguments...

W
 
  • #1,340
Wrinkles, thank you so very much.I cant follow after 3pm..Deeply grateful~Nore
 

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