GUILTY CA - Leila Fowler, 8, murdered, 12yo charged, Valley Springs, 27 Apr 2013 - #4

[TheDuchess]

I believe he is CW's son..and do you mean cw's parents??

No-wondering about the little blonde boy who appears to be about 4 years old at this time-his name starts with a C

 

[Shwalt00]

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this or if its considered "sleuthing", but I wonder if there is another mother out there....the mother of the other 2 siblings that LF didn't get to meet. In the obit it mentioned the 3 siblings she never got to meet. One of them was listed in the article up there^ somewhere, but there was no mention of the other 2. Again, if I'm breaking the rules, I apologize. I don't know if my question is a general question or not. I'm hoping its ok to ask it.

 

[dinaslala]

STOP! Are you kidding me? How did this become all about the dad? STOP!

Dad is considered a victim here. Using the names of minors is against TOS.

This is a tragedy and bashing and accusing other family members is not helpful.

If you want to bring facts to life, that's fine if you have a link. But unnecessary and hurtful speculation against other family members will not stand and may subject you to a loss of posting privileges for a period of time.

Salem

Apologies..

 

[Salem]

I don't know if I'm allowed to ask this or if its considered "sleuthing", but I wonder if there is another mother out there....the mother of the other 2 siblings that LF didn't get to meet. In the obit it mentioned the 3 siblings she never got to meet. One of them was listed in the article up there^ somewhere, but there was no mention of the other 2. Again, if I'm breaking the rules, I apologize. I don't know if my question is a general question or not. I'm hoping its ok to ask it.

Yes - this would be considered sleuthing and bringing in innocent folks to the discussion and would not be allowed. We may be curious, but we don't need to know who these folks might be and we certainly don't need to put their names/identities in our threads where such information is searchable and lasts - well - maybe forever, kwim?

They are innocent, we don't need to bring public scrutiny upon their heads.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Salem]

Okay - Please don't bicker. Let' me see if I can set some guidelines here so everyone will know what is acceptable and okay.

Give me a minute.

Salem

 

[Kateyes]

wow great article....7 kids by 4 different women.

It is a crime that he will be out by the age of 25. I hope that he does not harm again.

Agree. <modsnip> At any rate,no matter the exact amount of time they have been together it is not a very long time overall. Those children have had a lot of conflict and changesin their lives. Who knows what role that played in the 12 year old's current situation, but doubt that it can be dismissed altogether. If the child had sociopathic tendencies the changes and conflicts in his life could have only made things worse.

 

[Salem]

This is a difficult case to follow and sleuth because it involves many minors and some family dynamics that are unusual and outside the norm.

Sleuths will need to keep in mind that what is posted here, remains online and searchable for years and years - that means as the minors become older, they will be able to find this information, if they choose to look. It is necessary to post responsibly, with this in mind. Try to think forward and imagine that it is your child - how would you feel about the info your child found?

Sleuthing of anyone outside the household is not allowed. They are innocent victims of this tragedy and are not involved.

Bashing and/or accusing one of the parents based on your own experiences/ speculation is not allowed. It doesn't belong here and, in the long run, would not be in the best interest of the minors. If you must, take it to pm land (but don't talk about pm'ing on the thread - just do it).

Linking to articles and discussing the facts that are found, is allowed, but please be careful about the quotes you select from the article. Do not select quotes that name the minors or go beyond the bounds of what is okay to sleuth here. Everyone who reads the link will see and understand the info that can't be posted here.

Other information/facts/speculation should be kept under your hat, so to speak, unless/until it becomes pertinent to the case.

I know these guidelines are outside our norms - but this case is outside our norms, kwim? We have had some other children involved in murders, but I don't think I've ever seen one with similar family dynamics. That means we have a lot of gray areas that we will need to work through as we go along.

If in doubt, send a mod a pm and we will provide guidance.

Thanks everybody!

Salem

 

[TheDuchess]

Thanks Salem!!!

I have tons to do today, but wanted to leave with just letting you all know that I feel tremendous sorrow for EVERYONE involved in this family, even IF.

 

[Jhon]

This is a difficult case to follow and sleuth because it involves many minors and some family dynamics that are unusual and outside the norm.

<SNIP>

You've posted decent guidelines. I think you may have taken on the task of herding cats in trying to enforce them, though. I wish you luck.

 

[marycarney]

I have removed my offending post.

 

[menmo]

STOP! How did this become all about the dad? STOP!

Dad is considered a victim here. Using the names of minors is against TOS.

This is a tragedy and bashing and accusing other family members is not helpful.

If you want to bring facts to life, that's fine if you have a link. But unnecessary and hurtful speculation against other family members will not stand and may subject you to a loss of posting privileges for a period of time.

Salem

I apologize.

ETA: Removed quote and my reply.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I 100% agree with this post ticya.

And double standards hurt children.

All parents need to pay child support to the parent that is raising the child. We all are aware of how expensive it is to raise children nowadays.

The gender of the parent that has a responsibility of paying child support does not matter and if it does for some illogical reason then it shows we are still stagnated in double standards that only hurt the children in the end. The child deserve to be supported financially by BOTH parents.......period. There is no excuse that justifies them not doing what is their responsibility.

imo

BBM:I will have to respectfully disagree with this. In the case where someone is only earning approximately $550 a month for disability, having to pay a quarter of an amount that you cannot even live on does not make sense. Especially when the children's other parent is capable of full time work, yet maybe doesn't. Sometimes the court only sees what is on paper, not the reality of a situation.

I have a friend (a good friend) who used to get all upset when her ex didn't send the child support. Her ex was a bozo, but he sent as much as he could and still be able to pay his own bills (he never totally slacked). My friend was now remarried and didn't even NEED the child support (her house was crammed full of "stuff", so there was at least plenty of money for that). Yet still, no matter how many times they went back to court he still had to pay the full amount of child support, even though he had less money than she did and his own new family to support. He was willing to take the kids full time, part time, whatever, to make up the difference in what he couldn't pay, but that wasn't good enough for my friend. She just wanted the money. And the court backed her.

So, I don't happen to agree that all parents need to pay child support to the parent raising the child, blindly. I think the courts need to look at the reality of the cases a little more closely.

 

[Jhon]

BBM: While in no way indicating that this is any type of excuse whatsoever for any criminal activity - can I just say how true this is? And how those scars are carried well into adulthood?
My parents- between them -were married a total of seven times. I'm 58 now, and the hurt is as real now as it was then. My father married several women who just did not like his five daughters- and HE had sole custody of us as my mom walked away from her family. I have several siblings with substance abuse issues directly related to this period in our lives.

I have a legitimate question. How is the above not a violation of:

"Bashing and/or accusing one of the parents based on your own experiences/ speculation is not allowed. It doesn't belong here and, in the long run, would not be in the best interest of the minors. If you must, take it to pm land (but don't talk about pm'ing on the thread - just do it)."

While not directly "bashing" or "accusing" the parents, it is certainly indirectly bashing them.

 

[winterrose]

Back to the case.... Has LE released any of the incident reports they said they were looking into? I can't find anymore on it, they said at the time of the arrest they were still doing an investigation. I'm just wondering if they had to expedite the arrest, because the family had went to the school that day to say goodbye to everyone.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Back to the case.... Has LE released any of the incident reports they said they were looking into? I can't find anymore on it, they said at the time of the arrest they were still doing an investigation.

What incident reports?
The "calls of services" from the home to LE?

 

[winterrose]

What incident reports?
The "calls of services" from the home to LE?

Yep, the Sheriffs Dept had April incident reports on the community news online, but I can't find where they have them anywhere for the year. Media said something about animal mutilations. I'm interested if it was just incidents happening in the community or actual calls to the house.

 

[MsFacetious]

He filed for child support a week before Leila was murdered?
Seriously? Please tell me that the cops looked into that?
I don't like coincidences, that could be motive for some people. :twocents:


http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130517/A_NEWS/305170322

"I juggle month-to-month to get by," Barney Fowler, 37, the head of the household and father of the five children living there wrote in an April 19 document in which he asked ex-wife ************ to pay child support.......

-------------

Barney Fowler's request that **************** pay him $566 a month in child support is scheduled for a hearing in Calaveras Superior Court on June 5.

 

[vasportsmom]

BBM: While in no way indicating that this is any type of excuse whatsoever for any criminal activity - can I just say how true this is? And how those scars are carried well into adulthood?
My parents- between them -were married a total of seven times. I'm 58 now, and the hurt is as real now as it was then. My father married several women who just did not like his five daughters- and HE had sole custody of us as my mom walked away from her family. I have several siblings with substance abuse issues directly related to this period in our lives.

If not for your age and the extra sisters I would seriously be wondering if you weren't one of my siblings. My mother also walked off and my parents have had a combined 7 marriages too. When my father passed my parents were "engaged" despite both being married to other people. Growing up it was such a toxic environment. I'm 36 now and came out ok by treating my parents as an excellent example of what not to do but my brothers did not handle as well. They developed drug habits very early and quickly turned to crime to support those addictions. I have 7 nieces between 2 brothers and neither has spent more than a year in any of their kids' lives before landing back in jail. It's a horrible situation that likely could have been adverted by parents that acted like adults instead of treating their children like pawns or accessories.

 

[Salem]

I have a legitimate question. How is the above not a violation of:

"Bashing and/or accusing one of the parents based on your own experiences/ speculation is not allowed. It doesn't belong here and, in the long run, would not be in the best interest of the minors. If you must, take it to pm land (but don't talk about pm'ing on the thread - just do it)."

While not directly "bashing" or "accusing" the parents, it is certainly indirectly bashing them.

Jhon - the post is okay and can stand. The poster is not bashing/accusing but is stating that sometimes too many adults in a child's life can be more harmful than helpful. A look at many of the cases in this very forum, Spotlight on Children, will verify that this is true.

We all interpret facts/ideas based on our own experiences. That is our individual frame of reference. My guideline is not meant to stop posters from using their own experiences to interpret facts - but to caution them not to leap to conclusions/judgments that cannot be substantiated without additional information.

I hope that helps. Please pm me or any other mod with additional questions.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[winterrose]

He filed for child support a week before Leila was murdered?
Seriously? Please tell me that the cops looked into that?
I don't like coincidences, that could be motive for some people. :twocents:


http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20130517/A_NEWS/305170322

"I juggle month-to-month to get by," Barney Fowler, 37, the head of the household and father of the five children living there wrote in an April 19 document in which he asked ex-wife ************ to pay child support.......

-------------

Barney Fowler's request that **************** pay him $566 a month in child support is scheduled for a hearing in Calaveras Superior Court on June 5.

Priscilla already said she wasn't allowed to see the kids since she wasn't paying any child support. I'm wondering how all this affected IF not being able to see his mother. I'm not making an excuse at all for what he did, but if a child has developed a rage, they may take it out on something innocent, such as animals or a sibling. Interesting it was his sister, from what we know the mattress was taken. At this point, we're not sure if she was even awake and unless the trial stays public, we might not ever know exactly what happened. Does he have mental problems that people saw, or did he hide it that well? He sure kept up his story of an intruder and with all the interviews from LE never admitted what he did.