Found Deceased CA - Madyson Middleton, 8, Santa Cruz, 26 July 2015 - #2 *Arrest*

[justwannahelp]

Can someone tell me her Facebook name? I can't find her page. I'm not sleuthing HER. I would like to see her pics of AG. Mods forgive me if I'm out of line. If y'all can't give her name in the thread, could you message me? I tried Reje Gonzalez Factor and many difft combos of that with and without Santa Cruz

 

[flourish]

In my experience, little ones do seem to think pets have ill will toward them if the animal doesn't react favorably. I've worked with tons of preschoolers and that sounds pretty typical and not what I would be concerned about if there weren't other issues. It's the kids who, when asked, either give you the blank look, or say they don't know or worse that they wanted to see what would happen or because they wanted to hurt it but don't have a stated "slight" from the animal...idk...IMO.


Eta: OT, but my mom used to admonish me to not "maul the poor kitty," because I just LOVE them soooooo much! Lol still do.

 

[human]

Do we KnOw as fact that was AG playing the piano? I thought i read somewhere that it was a video clip from an actual music video??

I don't know about the creepy hands, but his mother has an FB video where he is playing the piano

 

[AmyPond]

Question in the pets thing. So I know killers often show their first signs of maybe becoming a killer in their childhood when they abuse animals. Well, my 3 year old threw a rock at our cat the other day. He missed, but I saw it and corrected him etc. He told me that he didn't like Dax and that Dax was mean to him so he threw at rock at him. But Dax was just sitting in the grass doing nothing. He was playing with a patch of clovers. I told my older kids about it and they said it wasn't the first time he threw something at him. Now, our cat does NOT like our three year old because he has annoyed him all through his toddler years trying to pick him up, squeezing his ears etc. His initial encounters were those if TRYING to show affection and Dax did not show any affection in return. Toddlers are often too rough with cats even though they mean, so Dax has given him a few little nip bites- nothing terrible. So is my 3 year old's randomly throwing half a brick at our cat anything to worry about?

Sounds like normal toddler behavior to me.

 

[katydid23]

Ok good. I think reading about Brandon scott Laverne desecrating graves and all the other serial killer childhood fetishes has made me paranoid. Today we caught clam diggers all day on the shoreline and he was very careful not to squeeze them and when we had to go back to the room I told them we had to dump the bucket out because they would all die if we didn't. He complied kindly and dumped the bucket in the surf and said "bye cute little diggers" lol. So he's sweet to little creatures- just not our cat : /

I guess he's just mad that the cat doesn't like him and ignores him. But still, Seeing him throw that brick unprovoked in that moment just made me really paranoid--that sweet little face just throwing that brick😯

Awww. It sounds like he just got his feelings hurt by the mean kitty. :cat:

 

[gitana1]

His answer to the detectives that he wanted to dies and so he ' wanted to see peoples reactions' is BS, imo. Because if it was just about that, he could have hit her over the head and that would be it. But all of the other gruesome sexual stuff belies his explanation, imo. He wanted to do what he wanted to do. JMO

Exactly.

Question in the pets thing. So I know killers often show their first signs of maybe becoming a killer in their childhood when they abuse animals. Well, my 3 year old threw a rock at our cat the other day. He missed, but I saw it and corrected him etc. He told me that he didn't like Dax and that Dax was mean to him so he threw at rock at him. But Dax was just sitting in the grass doing nothing. He was playing with a patch of clovers. I told my older kids about it and they said it wasn't the first time he threw something at him. Now, our cat does NOT like our three year old because he has annoyed him all through his toddler years trying to pick him up, squeezing his ears etc. His initial encounters were those if TRYING to show affection and Dax did not show any affection in return. Toddlers are often too rough with cats even though they mean, so Dax has given him a few little nip bites- nothing terrible. So is my 3 year old's randomly throwing half a brick at our cat anything to worry about?

3 is quite young to make any kind of determination about something like that. He's just learning. His early attempts to show affection show he's really a good little guy! I'd worry if he was 8 or 9.

But it I really think this is the crucial time for us all to teach our kids empathy - ages 2-5. To have sincere discussions with them about feelings, physical and otherwise and to try to get them to put themselves into the animal's "shoes". "Oh! Poor old Socks! You must have really hurt him. It hurts to be hit by a rock. And he must feel so sad right now. He wonders why his buddy hurt him. He doesn't understand. I feel so sad for Socks. I'm very upset that you did that."

It's also good I think to challenge them as to why they do something cruel. "Socks was just sitting there. Why did you do that? He wasn't being mean to you. Cats aren't like people. They don't show us they like us in the same way. But if you hurt him he will stay away from you."

And they need to know there are consequences for hurting animals. That they're going to be on timeout if they do such a thing.

I think that's how you prevent a psychopath from being created- teach empathy, help them understand how their actions affect others and teach them there are consequences for cruel behavior. If parents don't teach that society will!

 

[gitana1]

Until we learn more about the mother, I can't put blame on her. Calling her feisty seeing her son arrested is not fair. If I was in her position, it would probably take a sedative and a straight jacket to calm me down.

It seems to me that AJG has been "crying out for help" for several years. His female friend saying he would tell her he was going to jump off the roof repeatedly is a sign to me that this kid wanted help and no one knew it. Of course not, two years ago, about 13 years old, kids do not know how to decipher these things. Heck, even adults miss the signs easily.

It will be interesting to find out what kind of relationship he had with his mother and the divorced father. He may have felt left out of Mom's life recently. What was the school culture like? It sounds like he did not feel as if he belonged.

Seriously though, for all the heinous things he did, something has been wrong with his thinking for a long time. I don't think you become this monster in a few weeks time. JMO

Agreed. But while I won't blame a parent for a kid who does such a horrible thing as this without some pretty extreme evidence of abuse (e.g. the Gypsy Blanchard case), I do note that I have never been arrested for anything, let alone something aggressive like fighting and I believe most of you and most reasonable people have not either.

 

[corundogs]

I can laugh now, but back then I honestly worried if neighbors would call CPS on us. I also never spanked nor hit my child but there were times she did not like the "news" she received as in "no computer and no phone for a week" and would shriek like a banshee and slam doors and stomp.

And we lived in a condo.

I prepared myself many a day for that knock at the door and how best to explain that I was "parenting", not "abusing" my child.

But the eye rolling alone was really enough to make me give myself a time out before I lit into her.

All this to say, unless it is shown that AJG's mom was really a crap failure as a mom,
she has my sympathy. Nobody's life is ideal, and everyone struggles to be the best they can be. But to blame this woman without knowing who/what she was as a parent is really jumping the gun.

As I said before, there but for the grace of God go I.

When I was 15 or 16, I yelled at my Mom that I hated her and "ran away"...to under the car in the garage. LOL!

Til the day she died, she LITERALLY never let me forget that. A couple months before - when I was in my 40's - during a phone call, she brought up yet AGAIN that I told her I hated her. When I was 15 or 16. She would bring it up every chance she got. I of course, didn't really hate her. And yes, the neighbors probably heard me.

The woman never learned how to let anything go! LOL!! God rest her soul.

 

[human]

This teen murderer reminds me very much of Joseph Duncan the prolific sadist, pedophile, murderer. Who by the way was not abused as a child. The FBI tried to find any abuse history in his past and found none. Yet at the age of 8 years old he was already raping five year old boys. When he was sent to an extensive in house mental treatment facility all of the doctors deemed him untreatable and boy were they right.

What AJG did and how he did it is far beyond what even some pedophiles do.

It seems to me he fantasized about a lot of depraved and perverted things. It wasnt enough for him to rape her and then strangle her after he had raped her. His acts are depraved, demonic, and sadistic. The binding, stabbing, beating, raping her, and then invading her little body with a foreign object shows he has full blown sadistic tendencies. IMO. I think the more he inflicted pain and suffering on little Maddy the more it gave him a rush.

I still believe one does not have to have an abusive childhood to become like AJG. I have read many books where the evildoer did not have a history of abuse whether in childhood or adulthood. In fact some were the opposite and were pampered which I think can have these same results in certain cases like this. I certainly believe that full blown narcissism can develop into being a sociopath.

And he had to have absolutely no feelings for little Maddy at all. She had to be crying her little heart out even when he was binding her up. The tears wouldnt stop just because he had made sure she couldnt scream. It didnt faze him. None of it. Anyone with an ounce of conscience or feelings couldnt do what he did to Maddy.

Maddy may have been his friend but he sure wasn't Maddy's. She was simply a means for him to act out his sadistic fantasies that I think he had had for a very long time. I expect his phone and computer will be filled with porn. Predators like AJG target those who are much weaker than them and gain their trust if they know their victim and that is what he did with Maddy knowing all along she was going to be his prey.

We constantly hear the same theme as we have heard in this case. "He/she is such a nice person, I cant believe he/she would ever do something like this" but the truth is these type of people only let someone see what they want them to see/hear and never reveals what is really in their sick depraved minds. It shows why even the best experts in the world cannot predict who will become a rapist or murderer or both before they become one

When they do drop their mask it is when looking into the eyes of their frightened victim. Maddy got to see the real AJG when he brutalized her and as he was taking her little life away.

This teen never needs to see the light of day. He is like Duncan and cant be fixed.

IMO

Hm. This article says he was horribly abused.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2013/01/sister_of_convicted_child_kill.html

 

[LinasK]

I recognized the song, not from having watched the movie, but from having seen Adam Lambert sing it on American Idol. Beautiful rendition![video]https://youtu.be/dJOWgqp4ZfAfeature=player_detailpage&[/video] or this one: https://youtu.be/VrIUU2JU65I

https://youtu.be/dJOWgqp4ZfA

Trying again... [video=youtube;dJOWgqp4ZfA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dJOWgqp4ZfA[/video]

 

[mrsobrien]

I love that song. :-O

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Yes, damaged or underdeveloped areas, like the centers responsible for impulse control, rage etc. Dr. Robert Hare has written books on the neuroanatomy of criminals. PET scans and other tests like MRI's, CAT scans can "see" these differences between them and normal brains. Some of the areas of anatomical difference in the brain are the amygdala and the frontal lobes.
Here's one article: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1524500.stm

thank you for posting these links, LinasK!

these are good examples of what I was trying to say...

:seeya:

 

[LinasK]

thank you for posting these links, LinasK!

these are good examples of what I was trying to say...

:seeya:

Neuroanatomy has always interested me more than Psychology!

 

[TupeloMz]

So disturbing. This is clearly a sick individual with no regard for human life. To be able to throw away an innocent child like that just to "see a reaction"? How horrifying. I'm praying for everyone involved

Me too

Sent from my MotoE2(4G-LTE) using Tapatalk

 

[TupeloMz]

She was concealed at the bottom. I don't think LE did anything wrong here.

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[gitana1]

Hm. This article says he was horribly abused.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2013/01/sister_of_convicted_child_kill.html

Yes and here is a study that states the prevalence of abuse is much higher in the childhoods of serial killers than it is in the general population, especially emotional abuse:

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Research - Forensic/2005 20-1-Mitchell-40-47.pdf

Further, I didn't read the study I linked except the beginning but I have read often that many killers deny abuae even where others confirm it. Like with Duncan. And Ted Bundy's dad/grandpa killed their family pet and chased I think a fmaily
menber with a gun yet he claimed he had a normal childhood.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Yes and here is a study that states the prevalence of abuse is much higher in the childhoods of serial killers than it is in the general population, especially emotional abuse:

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Research - Forensic/2005 20-1-Mitchell-40-47.pdf

Further, I didn't read the study I linked except the beginning but I have read often that many killers deny abuae even where others confirm it. Like with Duncan. And Ted Bundy's dad/grandpa killed their family pet and chased I think a fmaily
menber with a gun yet he claimed he had a normal childhood.

IIRC... Ted Bundy found out his "parents" were actually his grandparents...

and his "sister" was actually his mom?

That revelation would be psychologically disturbing... IMO...

(Am I thinking of another Serial Killer?)

additionally... Ted Bundy is often described as "very handsome and charming"...

IMO... Being charming is a characteristic of many sociopaths...

and as for being "handsome"... Maybe he is just handsome when compared to the other serial killers... Kwim? (Like... He is voted "Most Sexy" of Serial Killers...:wink

JMO...

 

[gitana1]

IIRC... Ted Bundy found out his "parents" were actually his grandparents...

and his "sister" was actually his mom?

That revelation would be psychologically disturbing... IMO...

(Am I thinking of another Serial Killer?)

additionally... Ted Bundy is often described as "very handsome and charming"...

IMO... Being charming is a characteristic of many sociopaths...

and as for being "handsome"... Maybe he is just handsome when compared to the other serial killers... Kwim? (Like... He is voted "Most Sexy" of Serial Killers...:wink

JMO...

Yeah. That's him. Adopted by his grandparents as their son an them found it his sister was his Mother around age 13. But he was showing sings of being disturbed at age 3!

 

[Poster]

I believe that particular clip (the last IG post he created) was not his actual playing. Looked to me like he was mimicking the piano playing but not really playing. Sounded like a recording too.

But there are clips of him actually playing piano, on his family's FB accounts. I won't link to them here as it might go against forum rules.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

Since I did not hear the piano clip, I am wondering if people are refering to the correct song. It seems more likely that instead of referring to a song from the early 80s, he might be referring to a more current song that is called The dreams in which I’m dying are the best I ever had. It refers to people looking for logic and people knowing who he is:

By The Gorgeous

For all I care, give them to the asphalt
Let them know what it is to be in doubt.
When there is nothing left to write they will survey high and low,
Looking for logic, in quest for insight.
I'm running out of fingers and counting on you is like counting to infinity.
The numbers pile up to our ears but we can still we can hear them crunching on Wall Street.
(It's crunch time)
I have a pen and a pad and if the world can read then they will know who I am.
I live what I write.
Reading the indentations under the pages youve written.
When youre back on the black top, just think
This ones going to be a page-turner.
Yes, this ones going to turn pages.

 

[MilkHoney]

This case is really interesting to me; I keep coming back for updates. I feel so sorry for Madyson's family - no amount of prosecution will ever bring her back. I hope they have plenty of support. RIP Madyson. Taken far, far too soon.

I feel sorry for AG's family too, regardless of his upbringing. They are victims too.

I'm starting a masters degree in child and adolescent mental health this September, so I will be keeping tabs on this case for a while to try and figure out what led AG to commit this horrible act. I'm always torn with how to feel when I hear about cases like this, though, because even though someone has done something really horrific and unthinkable, I know that the teenage years are often when mental illnesses manifest and start showing symptoms, and these are really scary and confusing times. There is still a really big negative stigma on mental illnesses in our society, that if you start showing symptoms you would probably be reluctant to seek help out of fear of being judged. AG already seemed like a bit of an outsider with his peers, and I'm sure a mental health diagnosis wouldn't help.
I'm not saying he's mentally ill, we don't know anything yet, and I am not sympathising with him - I think what he has done is abhorrent and he SHOULD be incarcerated for life. However if there is something wrong, I really hope he gets the help that he needs.