GUILTY CA - Madyson Middleton, 8, Santa Cruz, 26 July 2015 - #3 *Arrest*

[Lilibet]

I thought she said she said she was friends with him in junior high, and then didn't have much to do with him in high school because he was always depressed. So it could have been just after jr high graduation, he's saying something big will happen in high school. Or maybe she remained facebook friends with him, while not having anything to do with him in high school.

Yes, I'm sure you're right. I responded to Madeleine's post along the same lines and agreed that I had it wrong. :doh: See post 212.

 

[blue22]

There will always be the people who have obvious signs of being a danger to others.

But, there are kids (and I truly think this will be the case here) that might be strange, or awkward, or even depressed...but no one would suspect they do anything even close to this. You see, unless someone is so obviously and outwardly disturbed that everyone in contact with that person sees it...what is society to do? Millions of kids and adults are growing up in and have survived horrific childhoods. A tiny, tiny percentage go on to do something like this. From what we know now, AJ does not seem so set apart that anyone could have seen this coming. That might change the more we learn, but IMO...there were probably not outward signs of a monster this depraved

ETA: I'm not suggesting just children with difficult childhoods commit these crimes. In addition to that, I don't think it will come out that AJ's childhood was particularly horrific. JMO of course.

 

[Kinpa4]

I haven't posted on here in a long time, but after reading much of this thread I wanted to say something. I read a lot of how parents can take their kids to therapy etc. but it doesn't always work like that. Not where I live anyway. As soon as my son turned 14 they allowed him to make the choice if he wanted therapy, medication etc. and I also agree with insurance being a problem.

 

[AmyPond]

I know what you are saying but I can actually tell you that I have a friend that is extremely afraid of her teenage son's intent and is afraid of him herself.

I picked up on stuff with him several years ago and told another friend that I felt that "we would be reading about him the papers one day and it wouldn't be good". We all agreed and his parents are aware.

OOOOOPPPPSSSS...wrong quote but I'm too technically challenged to fix it.

Has she made any attempt to get her son some help?

 

[emtmomma]

Unfortunately I know from personal experience how difficult it is to get help for a troubled child. My 14 yr olds most recent episode resulted in him stealing a car, driving 350 miles across 3 states and shacking up with a Aunt that he had only met on social media. The police impounded the vehicle, located him but left him with the aunt and here we are a week later and he still hasn't been arrested for a felony charge because the state vehicle was stolen in hasn't processed the warrant. We have made it clear he is a danger to himself and others and they will not do anything.

Madysons mother is doing a wonderful thing to try to bring awareness to metal health issues in children. I have so much respect for her and feel she will be successful in helping others while working through her grief.

 

[Lilibet]

This series of articles by a counselor has detailed information for parents about getting help for a teen. It discusses the effectiveness of treatments for various issues, what to do if a teen won't agree to counseling, insurance and much more.

It's one things to know your teen needs help. Getting that help is easier said than done. Naturally parents need to try. But it's not a slam dunk. JMO

http://www.strengthforchange.com/articles-for-parents.html

 

[Lilibet]

Unfortunately I know from personal experience how difficult it is to get help for a troubled child. My 14 yr olds most recent episode resulted in him stealing a car, driving 350 miles across 3 states and shacking up with a Aunt that he had only met on social media. The police impounded the vehicle, located him but left him with the aunt and here we are a week later and he still hasn't been arrested for a felony charge because the state vehicle was stolen in hasn't processed the warrant. We have made it clear he is a danger to himself and others and they will not do anything.

Madysons mother is doing a wonderful thing to try to bring awareness to metal health issues in children. I have so much respect for her and feel she will be successful in helping others while working through her grief.

Yikes! Thank you for sharing your real world experience! I'm so sorry you are going through this. It shows how complex getting help is for a child who is clearly troubled ...not to mention one who is not waving red flags. I hope you get some help soon. Here you are trying to let him experience natural consequences and it's not happening. Hugs!

I wholeheartedly agree with you about Madyson's mother. She seems to be a remarkable woman.

 

[emtmomma]

Yikes! Thank you for sharing your real world experience! I'm so sorry you are going through this. It shows how complex getting help is for a child who is clearly troubled ...not to mention one who is not waving red flags. I hope you get some help soon. Here you are trying to let him experience natural consequences and it's not happening. Hugs!

I wholeheartedly agree with you about Madyson's mother. She seems to be a remarkable woman.

Thank you I have learned ALOT over the past 12 years about Nature vs Nurture and the family dynamics and denial that occur with it.
A parent in denial is not always as sinister as it seems and sometimes there are no red flags.

 

[Liadan]

Such incredible respect for Maddyson's mum - her thoughts and actions. She is truly inspirational! In her time of need she reaches out - no words.

 

[Steleheart]

I'm chuckling a little because this particular article is pretty much the source of the derailment (except for the Melendez bros). We've also covered the graciousness of Maddy's Mom toward AJG's. We howled at the blue moon. I'm not sure when we'll have new information to chew on. Please feel free to post something to get us back on track and let's see how long we can stay there this time. I'm all for it.

No, thank you for that and I chuckled at your post too. Yes you all have covered her mom and her graciousness and many other intricacies of the case. Sorry for my rant. Yes, several articles have been a bone of contention for me.

Sometimes my own soap box is to high to even step on, LOL. Maddy's Mom is still in shock, IMO. The stages of grief can overlap and I am unsure when the anger will hit her, but hearing about the person she is I doubt we will hear about it. GONZALEZ may have been part of a turbulent family life but so are many and they don't all kill little girls. I do not think his Mom is the cause. I think that HE and only HE is the cause. He will be held accountable.

I'll post when I have something to offer. Again, sorry for my whining.
I howled at the moon and that sand sculpture hit me like a brick. I will try to find a link and the picture of the wolf howling at the moon.

MOO

 

[SweetT]

a post by 4senthia.



Not to argue but there is no one "normal".
2 people can never occupy the same space. Mentally physically or otherwise.
I can't literally ever see thru the eyes of another nor can they thru mine.
That's one reason colors look different to all of us.
I'm not saying this teen isn't/wasn't depressed. IMO many of us are.
It's very common among teens.
They lack the coping skills, but they are readily available from counselors and the like. In a wished-for "ideal" artists' community such as the Tannery, where this young man actually worked at times w/little children, I'm sure the occupants are socially aware enough to provide such services.
If some refuse to believe in broken people and in the existence, even in the most non-religious form, of unexplainable evil, that's their right and I get it.
As a child of molestation and extreme mental abuse I had been at the bottom of the "pit" so many times when I was his age.
And we have no evidence whatsoever that he was abused or neglected.
IMO it was all a sick game to him. He is charged with lying in wait for Maddy.
What a road to choose to go down, and I do believe he had his eyes wide open.
Sorry not meaning to offend anyone.


ITA with everything..I also have been the victim of terrible abuse etc and never killed and or tortured anyone.
Evil does walk this earth, we read about it every day on this site. No hope for the reprobates IMO

 

[margarita25]

This series of articles by a counselor has detailed information for parents about getting help for a teen. It discusses the effectiveness of treatments for various issues, what to do if a teen won't agree to counseling, insurance and much more.

It's one things to know your teen needs help. Getting that help is easier said than done. Naturally parents need to try. But it's not a slam dunk. JMO

http://www.strengthforchange.com/articles-for-parents.html

Thanks for posting this.

 

[Lilibet]

No, thank you for that and I chuckled at your post too. Yes you all have covered her mom and her graciousness and many other intricacies of the case. Sorry for my rant. Yes, several articles have been a bone of contention for me.

Sometimes my own soap box is to high to even step on, LOL. Maddy's Mom is still in shock, IMO. The stages of grief can overlap and I am unsure when the anger will hit her, but hearing about the person she is I doubt we will hear about it. GONZALEZ may have been part of a turbulent family life but so are many and they don't all kill little girls. I do not think his Mom is the cause. I think that HE and only HE is the cause. He will be held accountable.

I'll post when I have something to offer. Again, sorry for my whining.
I howled at the moon and that sand sculpture hit me like a brick. I will try to find a link and the picture of the wolf howling at the moon.

MOO

This is a great post. I think you have a lot to offer! But it has felt as if we are going in circles at times, until there is something new to chew on, so I did get where you were coming from earlier.

I agree that we won't hear about anger from Maddy's Mom. She will vent to her close friends, rather than publicly add to the pain of AJG's Mom IMO. I think the only villain here is AJG. If I were his Mom I'd need counseling and all the love anyone would be willing to give me!

Come back soon!

 

[Steleheart]

This is a great post. I think you have a lot to offer! But it has felt as if we are going in circles at times, until there is something new to chew on, so I did get where you were coming from earlier.

I agree that we won't hear about anger from Maddy's Mom. She will vent to her close friends, rather than publicly add to the pain of AJG's Mom IMO. I think the only villain here is AJG. If I were his Mom I'd need counseling and all the love anyone would be willing to give me!

Come back soon!

Thank you. This is only my opinion from watching and reading about this killer. I knew that at some point his background would come out and contradict the nice boy image people had of him. I do not think that parenting, background or mental health are the issue here.

I don't know what it will take for people to understand that there are, in fact, evil people. I do not think that he suffered depression, I do not think that he was ever suicidal. I think he played depression like he plays the piano or works the yo-yo as an expert - a virtuoso of manipulation one might say. He played the suicide thing to get attention and manipulate.
Suicidal people just do it. Those who attempt it are crying for help. He never attempted AS Far As We Know
His so called "turbulent" life is no different than most of the people I have met in my dealings with people; single moms, multiple boyfriends, different fathers, half siblings, etc.

He didn't kill Maddy because his mother threw a wine glass at him. I do not believe there ever was a wine glass. Maybe she broke one but I do think he was using it as another avenue of manipulation for that girl.

His participating and everything he was involved in was more getting focus on himself. His videos, before they were taken down, were mostly about how he wanted people to see him. The brooding, introspective, narcissistic, needy person who so needed attention, as if he got none. But he did. He got plenty, but IMO that was part of his narcissism.

He has an evil heart. At 15 he is fully sexually developed and capable of normal, fulfilling sexual relationships with girls his own age, yet he tried to manipulate them in ways that would satisfy his own depraved needs. " Something bad will happen". These are manipulators, not mentally ill IMO.

Then he groomed this little girl as if he were some kind of mentor that people trusted and respected. But his close friends describe him as "depressed".

I feel that the parenting, teacher, system discussion, the internet, , etc., are not applicable to this killer. He had hidden desires that only he knew and he skillfully masked them and manipulated people, likely his whole life.

He's not mentally ill, he's evil IN MY OPINION. He tortured her for over an hour then killed her. He knew how much time he had. Then he played with the police, again manipulating and having his own game.

Don't give him an out by blaming mental illness, parenting , and etc. Every kid has those issues and access to games, internet and all that, but this young man killed a tiny kid.

He needs to never see freedom again


Again MOO

 

[Steleheart]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLWpKjaUEAAPhOJ.jpg

 

[AmyPond]

To me, it's not so black and white. It isn't an either/or thing. (Either you're born evil or become evil.) I think it's a combination of predisposition due to genetics as well as his entire life up to this point. I'm not sure I believe someone comes out of the womb evil. I do think genetics may play a role though so I guess you could say they were "born" that way. But I think that every tiny detail in one's life shape what we become.

No one here is giving him "an out" by suggesting he could have issues.

 

[human]

We know drinking alcohol while pregnant can cause hundreds of effects in the baby.

It appears some may not be affected by the alcohol in the womb, for some reason.

Just because children who are abused or suffer different difficult situations in their lives do not turn into weird killers does not mean that we do not identify stressors in children's lives that cause issues. We know those stressors are not healthy for children.

When they occur, how many occur , and how intense they occur are just like alcohol. We have to rely on someone telling what they believe to be the truth about what occurred, how often, and how intense.

 

[Madeleine74]

While there are many opinions, the mental state (past & present) of AJG can only be determined by trained and professional experts who examine AJG. Depression is not an "excuse" but it could be a contributing factor. That doesn't give AJG a pass on what he did, btw. Nothing will excuse it. But there he is, for the experts to study and maybe learn something useful.

 

[cvaldez1975]

i sort of found that a short attack, apparently her body was in teh dumpster within the hour.

OMG....unspeakable horror was done to this tiny girl! His attack on her lasted for over an hour.....

 

[SweetT]

I've been in situations where a few minutes seemed like forever...so almost an hour, close to an hour would be WAY too long for a little girl to endure..Heartbreakingly sad. Honestly people who injure children should never be free to injure again. Ever. And I do feel there is a special place for them after death.