GUILTY CA - Madyson Middleton, 8, Santa Cruz, 26 July 2015 - #3 *Arrest*

[Tricia]

DON'T FORGET NEW TIME FOR TRUE CRIME RADIO 9 PM EASTERN CHAT ROOM OPENS AT 8:30 PM EASTERN

Tonight, Thursday at 9 PM Eastern we welcome profiler and addiction expert John Kelly. Kelly also starred in "Dark Minds" on Discovery ID. We'll discuss the horrific murder of Madyson Middleton at the hands of her 15-year-old neighbor.

Also we welcome to TCR Forrest Galante marine biologist, star of Naked and Afraid, talks about Cecil the lion. Galante grew up in Zimbabwe and actually knew the lion.


Go to http://www.truecrimeradio.com/forrest-galante-john-kelly-join-us-new-time-thursday-august-6/
and at a few minutes past 9 PM Eastern click on the "Listen Now" button at the top of the page which takes you to the live show on iHeart Radio.com

NEW TIME 9 PM Eastern

 

[1&2&3]

My thoughts on AJG having been interviewed as being the suspected email threat sending person is that if he truly was considered, then LE would have been aware of him living in Maddy's complex. LE would have knocked on his apt. door seeking him out as soon as the investigation changed from locating a live missing person.

Sending threats to a school is not something the police department is going to forget in a short time. It is a serious event and doesn't seem like a juvenile is going to escape charges "by apologizing". If that is what happened, it was another cry for help from AJG that went unnoticed. IMO. Surely LE did not let the person off that easily! Did they really find the person?

As for the wording that AJG used the last day on his page, I think that was done as a copycat.

We've never heard, how were AJG's grades in school? Was he a smart student? Was that a reason he did not fit in with his peers - he was looked at as a nerd?

 

[SophieRose]

LE last reported on the 11/18/14 SCHS threat on 12/10/14. They were working with two other out-of-state police depts. who had similar threats.

http://santacruzpolice.blogspot.com/search/label/Santa Cruz High School

Our investigators continue to work a number of strategies and leads. We had email contact with the person claiming to be the original e-mailer as late as last week. Nothing new has come from these contacts. The person continues to make promises of surrendering, or turning in the “real” person responsible for the original threat.

 

[SophieRose]

Seems like Santa Cruz High has discovered who sent the threat (supposedly they apologized). If it wasn't Adrian Gonzalez ( My preference is not to use initials- too confusing), then couldn't the school issue a statement to that effect without naming an uninvolved person???

The person who apologized did it by anonymous e-mail, and LE couldn't trace it. Plus LE doesn't know if the e-mails are the same person who actually made the threat or some other person.

 

[SophieRose]

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_28595151/memorial-madyson-middleton-set-aug-23

A memorial service for Madyson Middleton, the 8-year-old girl found dead at the Tannery Arts Center, will be held Aug. 23 at Kaiser Permanente Arena in Santa Cruz.

The event will include performances from Tannery artists and other artists to honor Middleton, said Gina Antoniello, a spokeswoman for the Santa Cruz Warriors basketball team that normally uses the arena.

 

[Tricia]

John Kelly was my guest on True Crime Radio. We spoke exclusively about Maddy and her killer.

Kelly is in the second half of the show. If you want to skip the first guest (Forrest Glanate wildlife biologist, grew up in Zimbabwe we talked about Cecil the lion) then fast forward to around the :34 mark on the player.

Thanks,
Tricia

 

[Steleheart]

has the reporter/news org or LE every been able to determine if the person who made the threat to the HS was the same individual who claimed credit and was in communication with the Sentinel about the threat?

Crippling Anxiety. Not a common phrase exactly but not an unheard of one either.

Interesting angle I was not aware of. Bringing forward the link.

A day after the threat, someone anonymously reached out to the Santa Cruz Sentinel newspaper claiming responsibility but said he was not “homicidal, just a thrill seeker”. That person also said he was wracked with guilt and had “crippling anxiety.”

That is the same phrase the teenager used on his Instagram page.

http://wthitv.com/2015/08/04/maddy-middleton-murder-suspect-may-be-tied-to-death-threat-in-2014/

Agree with you tlcya, but my idea of sleuths speculating - it should be based on the facts of the case. So this plausible connection is something to be considered IMO. It is so far removed from groundless theorizing based on nothing that it seems worthy of discussion? I mean it seems at least plausible. The back and forth discussion with the Sentinel is so, so much like this young man's MO, The attention, and how it fits with his own narcissistic agenda.

Thoughts please.

MOO

 

[tlcya]

Agree with you tlcya, but my idea of sleuths speculating - it should be based on the facts of the case. So this plausible connection is something to be considered IMO. It is so far removed from groundless theorizing based on nothing that it seems worthy of discussion? I mean it seems at least plausible. The back and forth discussion with the Sentinel is so, so much like this young man's MO, The attention, and how it fits with his own narcissistic agenda.

Thoughts please.

MOO

Still mulling this angle over. To me the bomb threat person and the Sentinel emailer are likely one and the same. Both the threat to Santa Cruz High and the interactions with the news org seem to be desperate bids for attention to me. The threat itself would suggest to me someone who felt a need to display power and attract notice. The interactions seem to be pleas for attention and recognition while begging people not to think poorly of the writer because of the threats to the school. Attempts to explain writer's reasoning behind such threats.

No clue if I believe that Madyson's killer was that individual. But I do find it interesting to consider.

I believe Maddy was killed by a disturbed young man who is not mentally ill by the legal definition but who has some issues that cause him to feel awkward, misunderstood, ill at fitting into his own peer group, and perhaps feels abused and or powerless, I suspect he struggles with being fearful and feeling impotent (not sexually per se but emotionally). I feel that his killing Madyson was an attempt to dominate someone smaller and weaker and cause them to feel fear. I think he needed to feel powerful and seen and she was his means of being not only seen but feared.

So some of the motivations I feel exist behind his killing Maddy would also apply to my theory on what would motivate the unidentified person who threatened the HS and possibly also communicated with the SEntinel.

 

[Steleheart]

Still mulling this angle over. To me the bomb threat person and the Sentinel emailer are likely one and the same. Both the threat to Santa Cruz High and the interactions with the news org seem to be desperate bids for attention to me. The threat itself would suggest to me someone who felt a need to display power and attract notice. The interactions seem to be pleas for attention and recognition while begging people not to think poorly of the writer because of the threats to the school. Attempts to explain writer's reasoning behind such threats.

No clue if I believe that Madyson's killer was that individual. But I do find it interesting to consider.

I believe Maddy was killed by a disturbed young man who is not mentally ill by the legal definition but who has some issues that cause him to feel awkward, misunderstood, ill at fitting into his own peer group, and perhaps feels abused and or powerless, I suspect he struggles with being fearful and feeling impotent (not sexually per se but emotionally). I feel that his killing Madyson was an attempt to dominate someone smaller and weaker and cause them to feel fear. I think he needed to feel powerful and seen and she was his means of being not only seen but feared.

So some of the motivations I feel exist behind his killing Maddy would also apply to my theory on what would motivate the unidentified person who threatened the HS and possibly also communicated with the SEntinel.

These are excellent thoughts and insights. I think that is why it belongs in the discussion. I think all of what you mention could fall into the category of mental illness from the standpoint of depression, anxiety, and possibly some sort of PTSD, so I will pull back on my opinion that he is not disturbed, just evil and say that only disturbed people can do this to a tiny girl. It's still evil and he never sought out any kind of help. He put his energy into skillfully masking his evil desires and groomed that kid until he got her where he wanted her.

I think he and the threat guy/ Sentinel person are one and the same. What are the chances that there is another such disturbed person like him out there in that town? That back and forth vacillating between threats and remorse just fit so well with his excuse " I wanted to commit suicide so I wanted to see how people react" or whatever it was. Lame IMO. He's only 15. He's only had a little time to hone his skills. But he kept his dark side to himself and fooled everyone. One can only do that with purpose and a mind focused on exactly that, IMO.
Thanks for your thoughts tlcya, always.

MOO

 

[Suthrnqt]

Marking my spot.....

 

[blue22]

These are excellent thoughts and insights. I think that is why it belongs in the discussion. I think all of what you mention could fall into the category of mental illness from the standpoint of depression, anxiety, and possibly some sort of PTSD, so I will pull back on my opinion that he is not disturbed, just evil and say that only disturbed people can do this to a tiny girl. It's still evil and he never sought out any kind of help. He put his energy into skillfully masking his evil desires and groomed that kid until he got her where he wanted her.

I think he and the threat guy/ Sentinel person are one and the same. What are the chances that there is another such disturbed person like him out there in that town? That back and forth vacillating between threats and remorse just fit so well with his excuse " I wanted to commit suicide so I wanted to see how people react" or whatever it was. Lame IMO. He's only 15. He's only had a little time to hone his skills. But he kept his dark side to himself and fooled everyone. One can only do that with purpose and a mind focused on exactly that, IMO.
Thanks for your thoughts tlcya, always.

MOO

I doubt there is only ever one deeply disturbed person in every town. IMO, it could have been anyone who sent that threat. I'm not counting out that it could have been him...but I'm really not convinced it's him. I think having two weirdly disturbed things happen in one town, is not evidence of a link.

 

[borndem]

Still mulling this angle over. To me the bomb threat person and the Sentinel emailer are likely one and the same. Both the threat to Santa Cruz High and the interactions with the news org seem to be desperate bids for attention to me. The threat itself would suggest to me someone who felt a need to display power and attract notice. The interactions seem to be pleas for attention and recognition while begging people not to think poorly of the writer because of the threats to the school. Attempts to explain writer's reasoning behind such threats.

No clue if I believe that Madyson's killer was that individual. But I do find it interesting to consider.

I believe Maddy was killed by a disturbed young man who is not mentally ill by the legal definition but who has some issues that cause him to feel awkward, misunderstood, ill at fitting into his own peer group, and perhaps feels abused and or powerless, I suspect he struggles with being fearful and feeling impotent (not sexually per se but emotionally). I feel that his killing Madyson was an attempt to dominate someone smaller and weaker and cause them to feel fear. I think he needed to feel powerful and seen and she was his means of being not only seen but feared.

So some of the motivations I feel exist behind his killing Maddy would also apply to my theory on what would motivate the unidentified person who threatened the HS and possibly also communicated with the SEntinel.

I think your thoughts and ideas are quite valid and the result of a lot of thinking on your part. This is tuff to dispute, IMO. I love posts like this -- strong, solid and ones that make me think. Thanks! And I'm still going, "Hmmmmm."

 

[LinasK]

These are excellent thoughts and insights. I think that is why it belongs in the discussion. I think all of what you mention could fall into the category of mental illness from the standpoint of depression, anxiety, and possibly some sort of PTSD, so I will pull back on my opinion that he is not disturbed, just evil and say that only disturbed people can do this to a tiny girl. It's still evil and he never sought out any kind of help. He put his energy into skillfully masking his evil desires and groomed that kid until he got her where he wanted her.

I think he and the threat guy/ Sentinel person are one and the same. What are the chances that there is another such disturbed person like him out there in that town? That back and forth vacillating between threats and remorse just fit so well with his excuse " I wanted to commit suicide so I wanted to see how people react" or whatever it was. Lame IMO. He's only 15. He's only had a little time to hone his skills. But he kept his dark side to himself and fooled everyone. One can only do that with purpose and a mind focused on exactly that, IMO.
Thanks for your thoughts tlcya, always.

MOO

I doubt there is only ever one deeply disturbed person in every town. IMO, it could have been anyone who sent that threat. I'm not counting out that it could have been him...but I'm really not convinced it's him. I think having two weirdly disturbed things happen in one town, is not evidence of a link.

I do think Gonzalez was the author of the threat to the high school. He wanted badly to be noticed and he was a student there, but having said that... Santa Cruz is NOT small town america. There are lots of crazies- I've seen myself, and homeless, and druggies. And many live in the mountains nearby, not 10 min. away.
Just over a year ago, I accompanied our niece to a political rally in downtown Santa Cruz that was anti-GMO. Some crazy guy was ranting and screaming about nuclear issues (totally unrelated) and yelling that the children should cover their ears, but not because of profanity. He was just nuts.

 

[blue22]

I do think Gonzalez was the author of the threat to the high school. He wanted badly to be noticed and he was a student there, but having said that... Santa Cruz is NOT small town america. There are lots of crazies- I've seen myself, and homeless, and druggies. And many live in the mountains nearby, not 10 min. away.
Just over a year ago, I accompanied our niece to a political rally in downtown Santa Cruz that was anti-GMO. Some crazy guy was ranting and screaming about nuclear issues (totally unrelated) and yelling that the children should cover their ears, but not because of profanity. He was just nuts.

Teenage boys who badly want to be noticed are a dime a dozen. Like I said, I'm not ruling it out. But, there is actually no evidence supporting it really was him. Unless, perhaps I'm missing something? People here seem so convinced I'm wondering if I didn't miss some sort of evidence pointing to him.

 

[Paulas88]

Teenage boys who badly want to be noticed are a dime a dozen. Like I said, I'm not ruling it out. But, there is actually no evidence supporting it really was him. Unless, perhaps I'm missing something? People here seem so convinced I'm wondering if I didn't miss some sort of evidence pointing to him.

Didn't he tell a classmate that something big would happen at his school?

 

[T4Tide]

Sorry....I've been MIA for a while. Our homeschool starts tomorrow, and I've been trying to get everything ready.

Honestly, I think some are giving AG the credit of a mastermind when he is not. Plenty of people will disagree with me, but I don't think AG is a killer who planned this crime for a long time. I'm not even so sure he fantasized about it. My guess would be that he, in periods of calmness and rationality, is feeling very much like it was an "out of body experience." I think that there was really no plan. This was spontaneous. My guess is that he lured Madyson to....well, I don't know. Some evil deed, yes....but I think when he got her there, the rage inside took over and did more than he expected to do. I think in that instant, his sociopathic self was proud and exhilarated about what just occurred, followed quickly by fear and panic. The cover up ensued, and he hastily disposed of her sweet body. He thought LE would never suspect him. They would certainly suspect an evil stranger and he couldn't see how easily they would conclude that he was the evil stranger. These are all guesses, but I'm betting his mother babied him and he felt like a golden child. This gave him a false sense of self. I think that if he had planned this thing out, he would have lured Madyson to a previously sought out, secluded spot and committed his atrocities at a slower, more enjoyable pace. That's sickening to put in black and white.

I'm not making excuses for him or saying that he didn't know what he was doing. I think that, for the most part, you are going to hear people say AG was weird and said weird things, but lacked aggression. This is what made people feel like he was just "saying stuff." He's the kind of kid that doesn't really have an outlet for his teenage angst.... like a lot of boys his age find in sports, or some other physical activity. When he came up behind Madyson, alone in that apartment, that aggression that he's been hiding engulfed him (and her) and he was stronger and more evil than even he thought he could be.
This is graphic, but I think it's a good comparison. I knew many a teenage boy back in the day. I remember how quickly a boy's passions escalated when we were alone. How when the state of arousal increased, his hands and movements were more frantic, doing things and touching places that we'd not agreed on before the escapade. I think Madyson's murder was AG's first "make out session" with death. It excited him to a point he didn't know existed, and that sweet baby was no resistance to him taking it to a level of no return in his erotic state.

I don't feel like any of that is an excuse and I'm not saying that he couldn't control himself. I'm saying that, at that moment, he didn't want to control it. I do think he's feeling remorse, but it's not the kind of remorse for the brutal murder of precious Madyson. His remorse is for himself, his family, and wishing he'd not been caught.

These are just my opinions and hypothesis. I remember watching a documentary of a similar serial killer. He was very good at explaining how he felt before, during, and after his crimes. He was boiling with rage and anger, and actually stopped by this rural home to rob them, or something less harmful. But when he got there, he killed them....his first blood. He said it felt so good....a temporary release from the rage that he didn't even know existed. From then on, he knew he had to kill again and went on a spree, but just like meth....the subsequent murders felt good, but not as good as that first hit. It's my guess that that's why serial killers keep murdering. It's an addictive, demonic high.

 

[blue22]

Didn't he tell a classmate that something big would happen at his school?

I think he said that he would be gone eventually and that something big would happen in high school.

I don't personally consider that evidence whatsoever. Not that we can't speculate and such, as this is what the forum is for. I was just wondering if I had missed something more conclusive along the way.

 

[LinasK]

I think he said that he would be gone eventually and that something big would happen in high school.

I don't personally consider that evidence whatsoever. Not that we can't speculate and such, as this is what the forum is for. I was just wondering if I had missed something more conclusive along the way.

If he'd pulled a Columbine or a bomb at the school, it'd be evidence. And still I think there could well be a link, though it's weak because he committed a different type of murder.

 

[blue22]

Sorry....I've been MIA for a while. Our homeschool starts tomorrow, and I've been trying to get everything ready.

Honestly, I think some are giving AG the credit of a mastermind when he is not. Plenty of people will disagree with me, but I don't think AG is a killer who planned this crime for a long time. I'm not even so sure he fantasized about it. My guess would be that he, in periods of calmness and rationality, is feeling very much like it was an "out of body experience." I think that there was really no plan. This was spontaneous. My guess is that he lured Madyson to....well, I don't know. Some evil deed, yes....but I think when he got her there, the rage inside took over and did more than he expected to do. I think in that instant, his sociopathic self was proud and exhilarated about what just occurred, followed quickly by fear and panic. The cover up ensued, and he hastily disposed of her sweet body. He thought LE would never suspect him. They would certainly suspect an evil stranger and he couldn't see how easily they would conclude that he was the evil stranger. These are all guesses, but I'm betting his mother babied him and he felt like a golden child. This gave him a false sense of self. I think that if he had planned this thing out, he would have lured Madyson to a previously sought out, secluded spot and committed his atrocities at a slower, more enjoyable pace. That's sickening to put in black and white.

I'm not making excuses for him or saying that he didn't know what he was doing. I think that, for the most part, you are going to hear people say AG was weird and said weird things, but lacked aggression. This is what made people feel like he was just "saying stuff." He's the kind of kid that doesn't really have an outlet for his teenage angst.... like a lot of boys his age find in sports, or some other physical activity. When he came up behind Madyson, alone in that apartment, that aggression that he's been hiding engulfed him (and her) and he was stronger and more evil than even he thought he could be.
This is graphic, but I think it's a good comparison. I knew many a teenage boy back in the day. I remember how quickly a boy's passions escalated when we were alone. How when the state of arousal increased, his hands and movements were more frantic, doing things and touching places that we'd not agreed on before the escapade. I think Madyson's murder was AG's first "make out session" with death. It excited him to a point he didn't know existed, and that sweet baby was no resistance to him taking it to a level of no return in his erotic state.

I don't feel like any of that is an excuse and I'm not saying that he couldn't control himself. I'm saying that, at that moment, he didn't want to control it. I do think he's feeling remorse, but it's not the kind of remorse for the brutal murder of precious Madyson. His remorse is for himself, his family, and wishing he'd not been caught.

These are just my opinions and hypothesis. I remember watching a documentary of a similar serial killer. He was very good at explaining how he felt before, during, and after his crimes. He was boiling with rage and anger, and actually stopped by this rural home to rob them, or something less harmful. But when he got there, he killed them....his first blood. He said it felt so good....a temporary release from the rage that he didn't even know existed. From then on, he knew he had to kill again and went on a spree, but just like meth....the subsequent murders felt good, but not as good as that first hit. It's my guess that that's why serial killers keep murdering. It's an addictive, demonic high.

I completely agree with you, actually.

The part I bolded...that is why I don't feel he was the one who sent the threat to the school or communicated with the newspaper. IMO, I don't feel he's all that smart. I'm sure he got by, but I think he's more bumbling than bright.

Eta: I'm not trying to nitpick about the threats to the school. I totally see why a link is being explored there, LE really has to I'm sure.

 

[Madeleine74]

I completely agree that AG is no criminal mastermind. A 15 year old does not have a fully formed brain, that's a scientific fact. Teens are often impetuous and their actions are not always well thought out. Yes, he committed this terrible crime, but it doesn't mean he had been planning and planning. The "lying in wait" charge is just that -- a charge that exists in the law that allows the state to throw at him. It could be a matter of a couple minutes in time, just like premeditation can happen in a matter of seconds.

None of that excuses his heinous actions, btw, so please don't think anyone is suggesting it does. But let's not imagine him as Ted Bundy or someone who was an adult serial killer with adult-level skills. He got caught immediately, be thankful for that. And I personally don't think he'll ever be allowed out to murder again.

As for the calls and threats, I have no idea if that was him or not. I'm someone who prefers to see evidence rather than assume someone is guilty based on feelings.