CA CA - Malibu John Doe, 20-30, UP15043, found with swiss francs in his pockets, Jan'86

[jellabiafro]

About the criteria the Swiss police used to register a missing person.

Recherche de personnes disparues – Avis de recherche - www.ch.ch

Declaration of disappearance
If you tell the police that someone has disappeared, the police will in any case register with the computerized police search system (report). On the other hand, it only issues a public search notice:

• in the case of children and minors;
• when a crime is suspected;
• when an accident is suspected;
• in case of risk of suicide or mental problems;
• when the missing person has to take medication, or is sick or infirm.

The competent police force decides whether or not to issue a public inquiry notice.

You can file a declaration of disappearance at the counter of any police station or by telephone at the emergency number 117.

Can we conclude from this that if this John Doe is from Switzerland went away, being an adult, just to travel (abroad) he doesn't necessary meets one of the above criteria and is probably not registered as a missing person in the official data base. I think searching family will eventually reach out to unofficial missing persons sites, like Facebook groups. Question is...do they go back in time so far. If his family is searching for him (he also could be estranged from them, or they lost contact in an earlier stage while traveling) they might not even know he traveled to America.

Exactly. Maybe he has been reported missing at some point, maybe not. There are multiples reasons that can lead someone to cut his/her relationship with his/her family and social group. I actually have friends, most of them born in the 60's-70's, who simply left the country and who since then have never been heard about, ever. Some might be alive, some might not, and there is no way to really find out.

 

[Bit of hope]

To me he has Europe "written all over him". There must be some kind of Swiss connection, but I'm still not sure he is from Switzerland....He could be from another European country and traveled there. Switzerland is always considered stable, so also the currency. And from experience with a Turkish friend, years and years ago: if you have a visa from Switzerland, all other countries will open their doors. But to narrow things down...let's start with the assumption, this man was a Swiss (or combined) national.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

To me he has Europe "written all over him". There must be some kind of Swiss connection, but I'm still not sure he is from Switzerland....He could be from another European country and traveled there. Switzerland is always considered stable, so also the currency. And from experience with a Turkish friend, years and years ago: if you have a visa from Switzerland, all other countries will open their doors. But to narrow things down...let's start with the assumption, this man was a Swiss (or combined) national.

Hello @jellabiafro, @Bit of hope and all,
I’m actually encouraged about getting Malibu Doe’s profile up on some of Europe’s Missing Persons Facebook pages. Switzerland first of course, also Portugal, Spain and Turkey as I believe they were the largest sources of Switzerland’s guest workers.
However....

1. It really makes no sense to do this unless there is an active LE point person in Ventura County who is ready and willing to field inquiries.
2. The post-mortem pics are pretty gnarly. One was even taken with an evident autopsy artifact. It would be much more family-friendly and productive to post a solid reconstruction picture on any future Missing and Unidentifiable FB pages.

@victoriarobinson642 did a really wonderful spot-on reconstruction, and if it can be officially sanctioned it’s a great resource to have and use.

If not, I am wondering if we could knock out both points 1 and 2 by asking if WebSleuth’s own Carl K would be willing to get involved?
I’ve not communicated with him directly but know that Carl does amazing reconstructions and has all the experience and credentials required.

Additionally, I believe that Carl is California-based and most likely has solid connections with LE around Los Angeles and Ventura Counties. He would be a great resource to help determine if this case can be resurrected and the best paths to take.
What do you all think?
He is very much in demand but it might not hurt to loop him into the conversation.

 

[jellabiafro]

Hello @jellabiafro, @Bit of hope and all,
I’m actually encouraged about getting Malibu Doe’s profile up on some of Europe’s Missing Persons Facebook pages. Switzerland first of course, also Portugal, Spain and Turkey as I believe they were the largest sources of Switzerland’s guest workers.
However....

1. It really makes no sense to do this unless there is an active LE point person in Ventura County who is ready and willing to field inquiries.
2. The post-mortem pics are pretty gnarly. One was even taken with an evident autopsy artifact. It would be much more family-friendly and productive to post a solid reconstruction picture on any future Missing and Unidentifiable FB pages.

@victoriarobinson642 did a really wonderful spot-on reconstruction, and if it can be officially sanctioned it’s a great resource to have and use.

If not, I am wondering if we could knock out both points 1 and 2 by asking if WebSleuth’s own Carl K would be willing to get involved?
I’ve not communicated with him directly but know that Carl does amazing reconstructions and has all the experience and credentials required.

Additionally, I believe that Carl is California-based and most likely has solid connections with LE around Los Angeles and Ventura Counties. He would be a great resource to help determine if this case can be resurrected and the best paths to take.
What do you all think?
He is very much in demand but it might not hurt to loop him into the conversation.

These are great ideas.

I totally agree that we should post some recon on European facebook pages and missing people websites (that might also drag the attention of magazines/papers/webzines.

I finally got a (very good) journalist interested in our case and he is also looking onto the swiss LE side.

If you or someone out here on websleuths is willing to contact Carl K that would be great, especially if he's from the area our case took place in.

I just gathered all the informations I have on the case on one document but I need to make an english version, the one I made is in french.

 

[branmuffin]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGE
Question:
What do make of that orange tubing wrapped about the Does’s waist?
View attachment 291944

Could be anything. The image seems to be taken at the discovery site (sand in the background). Having lived by the North Sea you see all manner of items coming on shore: tree branches wrapped up with fishing nets, tree stumps wrapped up with kelp and wire. We regularly got Portuguese glass fishing buoys washed up still in their rotting nets covered with barnacles. I've seen bras wrapped up in palm trees, ropes and plastic buoys in seaweed, bottles, a plastic slide, a dead pig and last but not least, a mine left over from WW2.

 

[branmuffin]

Built up Keratin on your toenails could be some kind of identifier? But because it seems so common to me (nail fungus), not that big of deal. But maybe it also could refer to something as simple as missing nutrients in the diet. Other possibles are psoriasis. Healthfully

Toenail fungus causes keratin debris, or a buildup of keratin.
What Causes Toenail Fungus? How to Prevent Onychomycosis, or Crusty Yellow Nails | Men’s Health

He might have had a corn on his toe due to ill fitting shoes or pressure on his toe due to a repetitive action related to work or sport.

 

[branmuffin]

To me he has Europe "written all over him". There must be some kind of Swiss connection, but I'm still not sure he is from Switzerland....He could be from another European country and traveled there. Switzerland is always considered stable, so also the currency. And from experience with a Turkish friend, years and years ago: if you have a visa from Switzerland, all other countries will open their doors. But to narrow things down...let's start with the assumption, this man was a Swiss (or combined) national.

I don't know if he is Swiss but I believe he is definitely from Europe. When I was in Europe I found that many Swiss were multi-lingual, as were the nationals from countries bordering Switzerland. Italians could speak German and English as well as Italian. A college friend who was born in Italy of German Jewish descent spoke Italian and French fluently as well as English. People from the Netherlands could speak Dutch English and German. Almost every Scandinavian I met could speak English fluently. Europeans put North Americans to shame when it comes to speaking other languages that are not their mother tongue.

 

[branmuffin]

Hello @jellabiafro, @Bit of hope and all,
I’m actually encouraged about getting Malibu Doe’s profile up on some of Europe’s Missing Persons Facebook pages. Switzerland first of course, also Portugal, Spain and Turkey as I believe they were the largest sources of Switzerland’s guest workers.
However....

1. It really makes no sense to do this unless there is an active LE point person in Ventura County who is ready and willing to field inquiries.
2. The post-mortem pics are pretty gnarly. One was even taken with an evident autopsy artifact. It would be much more family-friendly and productive to post a solid reconstruction picture on any future Missing and Unidentifiable FB pages.

@victoriarobinson642 did a really wonderful spot-on reconstruction, and if it can be officially sanctioned it’s a great resource to have and use.

If not, I am wondering if we could knock out both points 1 and 2 by asking if WebSleuth’s own Carl K would be willing to get involved?
I’ve not communicated with him directly but know that Carl does amazing reconstructions and has all the experience and credentials required.

Additionally, I believe that Carl is California-based and most likely has solid connections with LE around Los Angeles and Ventura Counties. He would be a great resource to help determine if this case can be resurrected and the best paths to take.
What do you all think?
He is very much in demand but it might not hurt to loop him into the conversation.

I agree that having an active US based LE individual would be ideal to use as a point person if this profile was released in Europe. I don't agree that the PM pics are gnarly. All the deceased's features are well presented. There are no catastrophic injuries to his face that disfigure him. Animation can change what a person looks like but I have seen far too many reconstructions that don't look remotely like an individual since they are based on artistic impressions. And that is using the skull to get accurate markers to the general shape of the face and features. You don't know the shape of the lips or how full they are, the shape of the nose, where fat deposits are on the face. If you have the real thing, I believe it's better to go with that first. IMO

 

[Bit of hope]

@CarlK90245 I know you are very busy with the DNA Doe project and busy otherwise...but if you have some time left...would you be willing to take a look at this thread. Thank you so much upfront....Good thoughts for you...always...even if you don't find the time. Cudos.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

Could be anything. The image seems to be taken at the discovery site (sand in the background). Having lived by the North Sea you see all manner of items coming on shore: tree branches wrapped up with fishing nets, tree stumps wrapped up with kelp and wire. We regularly got Portuguese glass fishing buoys washed up still in their rotting nets covered with barnacles. I've seen bras wrapped up in palm trees, ropes and plastic buoys in seaweed, bottles, a plastic slide, a dead pig and last but not least, a mine left over from WW2.

At least the glass floats are collectible!

 

[BigKeyManatee]

I agree that having an active US based LE individual would be ideal to use as a point person if this profile was released in Europe. I don't agree that the PM pics are gnarly. All the deceased's features are well presented. There are no catastrophic injuries to his face that disfigure him. Animation can change what a person looks like but I have seen far too many reconstructions that don't look remotely like an individual since they are based on artistic impressions. And that is using the skull to get accurate markers to the general shape of the face and features. You don't know the shape of the lips or how full they are, the shape of the nose, where fat deposits are on the face. If you have the real thing, I believe it's better to go with that first. IMO

You have valid points. I think there’s room for both. For example, the Facebook page for the Sumter County Does was really well done. You had great reconstructions but also the post-mortems available for those wanting to dig deeper. Just MOO.

 

[BigKeyManatee]

These are great ideas.

I totally agree that we should post some recon on European facebook pages and missing people websites (that might also drag the attention of magazines/papers/webzines.

I finally got a (very good) journalist interested in our case and he is also looking onto the swiss LE side.

If you or someone out here on websleuths is willing to contact Carl K that would be great, especially if he's from the area our case took place in.

I just gathered all the informations I have on the case on one document but I need to make an english version, the one I made is in french.

Super news about finding a Swiss journalist!
@Bit of hope has requested that Carl take a look at this thread. Thanks so much!

 

[BigKeyManatee]

That's right; and it is indeed possible that he was wearing some kind of pendant, a watch or just the chain itself.

Revisiting the chain found on the body:
In the 3rd pic on the NamUs profile ( Doe’s body on the beach) zoom in and look at the extreme left-hand side jean’s belt loop; there is a tiny bit of gold chain visible. It is difficult to see how it is secured to the pants.
But, if not carried in a vest pocket, wouldn’t that be the approximate location to secure a pocket watch? If one was right-handed?
Carrying a pocket watch in the ‘80’s does seem a bit of an affectation, but who makes better watches than the Swiss?
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGE

 

[branmuffin]

At least the glass floats are collectible!

That's funny because almost every family I knew had a few displayed on their fireplace hearths. Beautiful colours, mostly green but also vivid reds and yellows. Some were as big as a large grapefruit, some the size of a cantaloupe. Red ones were the rarest.

 

[branmuffin]

Revisiting the chain found on the body:
In the 3rd pic on the NamUs profile ( Doe’s body on the beach) zoom in and look at the extreme left-hand side jean’s belt loop; there is a tiny bit of gold chain visible. It is difficult to see how it is secured to the pants.
But, if not carried in a vest pocket, wouldn’t that be the approximate location to secure a pocket watch? If one was right-handed?
Carrying a pocket watch in the ‘80’s does seem a bit of an affectation, but who makes better watches than the Swiss?
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGE
View attachment 292335

It looks like the chain is looped through the belt loop. A little hard to tell since the image is cut off. The watch, if there was one, could have detached from the chain when the body was washed up on shore.

 

[jellabiafro]

Revisiting the chain found on the body:
In the 3rd pic on the NamUs profile ( Doe’s body on the beach) zoom in and look at the extreme left-hand side jean’s belt loop; there is a tiny bit of gold chain visible. It is difficult to see how it is secured to the pants.
But, if not carried in a vest pocket, wouldn’t that be the approximate location to secure a pocket watch? If one was right-handed?
Carrying a pocket watch in the ‘80’s does seem a bit of an affectation, but who makes better watches than the Swiss?
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGE
View attachment 292335

Wow I have looked at this picture for a LONG time and never noticed the golden chain/item on the pocket side. Thank you for noticing this. It's quite unclear on the police report. They say the chain was "on the body" (the pouch is said to have been found "near the body" as it was in a pocket and I guess this is a way to differenciate something you wear from something you carry in your pockets), but they don't precisely state where so we might have our answer.

@Bit of hope : thanx for reaching out to Carl K
To y'all : I really appreciate and value all the work you've done here so far, the brainstormings, discussions, the respect towards different ideas. This is a great place for exchanging point of views and theories and I thank you for that !

 

[SimplyCass]

Hey so I got the confirmation that Zurich to LAX flights weren't introduced before 1989. So the only direct route from Switzerland to the USA was from GVA to NYC, he then would've had to take a domestic flight, which is totally possible.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.

It was a very long shot anyway since we don't know when this JD came over or how long he had been staying here.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

Is it possible the JD came to the Malibu area as a roadie, stage hand, or else somehow associated with a European performer? I drew a blank on the music side as the only concerts around New Year I could find any records for at setlist.fm were more local. I also can't see a guy in a Michael Jackson shirt showing up at an X, Phranc, or Oingo Boingo concert in the 80s. But maybe there was theater or other touring acts he might have worked with?

 

[jellabiafro]

Is it possible the JD came to the Malibu area as a roadie, stage hand, or else somehow associated with a European performer? I drew a blank on the music side as the only concerts around New Year I could find any records for at setlist.fm were more local. I also can't see a guy in a Michael Jackson shirt showing up at an X, Phranc, or Oingo Boingo concert in the 80s. But maybe there was theater or other touring acts he might have worked with?

It's an interesting lead, thank you. Thing is : roadies crew stick together most of the time ; so I'm pretty sure that if he was here for work and therefore, had colleagues, I am pretty sure he would've been reported missing at some point.

 

[Curious_in_NC]

It's an interesting lead, thank you. Thing is : roadies crew stick together most of the time ; so I'm pretty sure that if he was here for work and therefore, had colleagues, I am pretty sure he would've been reported missing at some point.

You're right. It was a bit of a stretch. It's just that something about him and the way he was dressed, and the time of year, suggests to me he was not a typical tourist. The Michael Jackson shirt likely came to the US with him and the Heineken shirt seems like a freebie from some European event.