GUILTY CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #3

[MsMarple]

Well, there's this. Note that it comes from the defense:



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...house-fire-started/?client=ms-android-verizon

Okay, I'm going to take exception to that allegation. For one thing the "adjacent building" could only have been the warehouse next door that Ion was using for power. IOW, he was technically stealing power from that building. If anything, the landlord might end up shouldering more blame because it's pretty clear she was aware that the entire building was sharing power; remember the article stating that she would go to the tenants and tell them what their share of the electric bill was?

Still, if Ion was using power from that part of the building I can't see where it absolves him of responsibility. If what has been reported by former residents of the GS is true - that Ion knew about the fire risk due to the arcing of electric cords and outlets yet did nothing to make them safer then it does not IMO relieve him of responsibility. And tapping into another tenant's space for electrical power doesn't mean Ion can't be charged with failing to ensure the safety of his sub-tenants.

But also, I think there may be another possibly cloudy issue here because of what I saw on a resident's Instagram. I don't know if I can link it although he specifically gave various news outlets permission to use his Instagram posts. Anyway, he posted photos from early on when the Ghostship was first rented that showed Ion's belongings in the bay of the adjacent building - the one that was used as the auto store for a while.

For those of you interested it was from Max Ohr's IG - he's the former GS resident who ran the tattoo shop upstairs. Note that I'm not a lawyer but I think an argument could be made that Ion at least at one time had access to the entire building and therefore may be responsible in part for the entire electrical system.

Unfortunately IMO a real go-getter of an attorney needs to be used in this case and I'm not sure that's going to happen. I'm afraid that the city will simply settle whatever it can and down play Ion's and Ng's responsibilities because, well, it's just easier to settle and be done with it.

As for Micah Allison... I've done enough snooping to be satisfied that her father - well-meaning or not - does not understand where her mindset is. IMO she's nothing more than a selfish bully whose interest is more invested in her husband than her children and is mostly focused on having her hand out and depending on the kindness of people to throw money her way.

IOW I really hate this woman. I hate Derick Ion too. It just burns my butt that anyone - anyone - is defending the actions of these... cult leader a-holes.

:stormingmad:

In summary, here's what I think... Both Ion and Allison knew there were significant fire risks in the GS - both have been quoted as talking about remedies to lower the risk. That neither did anything, even after taking money that they stated was to be used to lowering that risk should be held against them. How the city of Oakland's attorneys choose to handle that information will determine whether or not Ion, Allison and Ng get away with - literally - murder.

JMO.

 

[CARIIS]

Okay, I'm going to take exception to that allegation. For one thing the "adjacent building" could only have been the warehouse next door that Ion was using for power. IOW, he was technically stealing power from that building. If anything, the landlord might end up shouldering more blame because it's pretty clear she was aware that the entire building was sharing power; remember the article stating that she would go to the tenants and tell them what their share of the electric bill was?

Still, if Ion was using power from that part of the building I can't see where it absolves him of responsibility. If what has been reported by former residents of the GS is true - that Ion knew about the fire risk due to the arcing of electric cords and outlets yet did nothing to make them safer then it does not IMO relieve him of responsibility. And tapping into another tenant's space for electrical power doesn't mean Ion can't be charged with failing to ensure the safety of his sub-tenants.

But also, I think there may be another possibly cloudy issue here because of what I saw on a resident's Instagram. I don't know if I can link it although he specifically gave various news outlets permission to use his Instagram posts. Anyway, he posted photos from early on when the Ghostship was first rented that showed Ion's belongings in the bay of the adjacent building - the one that was used as the auto store for a while.

For those of you interested it was from Max Ohr's IG - he's the former GS resident who ran the tattoo shop upstairs. Note that I'm not a lawyer but I think an argument could be made that Ion at least at one time had access to the entire building and therefore may be responsible in part for the entire electrical system.

Unfortunately IMO a real go-getter of an attorney needs to be used in this case and I'm not sure that's going to happen. I'm afraid that the city will simply settle whatever it can and down play Ion's and Ng's responsibilities because, well, it's just easier to settle and be done with it.

As for Micah Allison... I've done enough snooping to be satisfied that her father - well-meaning or not - does not understand where her mindset is. IMO she's nothing more than a selfish bully whose interest is more invested in her husband than her children and is mostly focused on having her hand out and depending on the kindness of people to throw money her way.

IOW I really hate this woman. I hate Derick Ion too. It just burns my butt that anyone - anyone - is defending the actions of these... cult leader a-holes.

:stormingmad:

In summary, here's what I think... Both Ion and Allison knew there were significant fire risks in the GS - both have been quoted as talking about remedies to lower the risk. That neither did anything, even after taking money that they stated was to be used to lowering that risk should be held against them. How the city of Oakland's attorneys choose to handle that information will determine whether or not Ion, Allison and Ng get away with - literally - murder.

JMO.

Neat post TY!! I do not understand why charges have not been bought. I wish there was a picture of how they rigged this power "steal".
I just can not imagine how one does that - its not like a regular person has access to turn off the main thing.

I have out of interest superficially explored electrid grid years ago. Its basically cause there is so much energy coming out that most of the system is about numbing down the energy (what transformers do ) .

I

would assume at one point all electric was "separate".

I have never understood how they did this without getting shocked to death.

 

[CARIIS]

First of all, IANAL --

<Gag> WTH difference does it make where the fire started? -- the warehouse was a firetrap and it was like kindling wood; all it needed was spark -- and Almena certainly knew it from the beginning, IMO, yet he rented space to people & didn't care if they lived there or not -- and where did he get the power supply for the warehouse he leased??-- but IMO the OFD or whoever should have done something due to the complaints that were made. If lightning had struck & started the fire, the world would still be without those 36 human beings and the artist inhabitants would be out of their clothes, their creations and a place to live albeit a very ominous & dangerous place to live.

This just angers me so very much. This case really has its claws in me... Grrrrr.

Give me break - that defies logic (something I often dont have!)


I agree who gives a sh&t- this is just stupid.

What would "keep" the car place from burning down?

The cement is fire resistant. !!!

Goodness - insulting IMO.

 

[CARIIS]

Take heart! I think it's way too soon to conclude that no one will be charged. It's a complex investigation that could take many months or even a year. I expect charges. They may not be the many counts of murder two I hope Ion will be charged with, but I'm sure he and the owner will be charged with something. I don't believe they will just walk away from this. Of course once they're charged there will be at least two years of legal maneuvering before a trial and the possibility of plea deals along the way. So we're in for a long, slow slog IMO.

I get aviation accidents taking a long time! Your post resulted in me feeling a bit better! I just do not understand what they are investigating?

It is known that the place arked all the time.

It is known that there were fires in there.

It is known he knew (by telling residents to fake it) that he was violating the law)

It is known the stairwell was treacherous.

What exactly is it they are investigating

There are no mysteries here moo

 

[MsMarple]

Neat post TY!! I do not understand why charges have not been bought. I wish there was a picture of how they rigged this power "steal".
I just can not imagine how one does that - its not like a regular person has access to turn off the main thing.

I have out of interest superficially explored electrid grid years ago. Its basically cause there is so much energy coming out that most of the system is about numbing down the energy (what transformers do ) .

I

would assume at one point all electric was "separate".

I have never understood how they did this without getting shocked to death.

H Cariis!

Thank you for keeping this thread alive and running! I am deeply disturbed by the deaths from this fire - I can't exactly say why, maybe because I feel that the attendees of that night had no idea of what they were walking into even though Derick Ion and his wife knew that the GS was a potential tinderbox. Like lambs going to the slaughter.

It just feels so bad. I don't believe that any of the 36 would have crossed the threshold of the GS that night had they known about the sparking, arcing eletrical cords and that Derick Ion himself had laughed at people's warnings about fire risks in the GS.

But to address your post, Derick Ion stole the electricity from the warehouse next to the Ghostship. in a pretty simple way; all you have to do is tie into the electrical supply box and add an outlet. From there you run electricity, either by extension cords (which so far seems to be the main way Ion tapped into it) or by adding conduit from it into yet another supply box. Actually, Ion may have tapped into power using both methods.

If you look at various connections for the lighting used at the GS as shown in the website (which has now unfortunately been turned off) you can see the wiring. It's a hot mess.

IMO, the pertinent fact is that Ion tapped into his neighbor's electrical power supply without any consideration as to the danger it may hold for the end users. Furthermore, when it was pointed out to Ion that there may be a fire risk in the way he was tapping into the electric power, Ion laughed and ignored the warnings.

I cannot in any way see Ion be excused from liability in this fire.

 

[Lilibet]

I get aviation accidents taking a long time! Your post resulted in me feeling a bit better! I just do not understand what they are investigating?

It is known that the place arked all the time.

It is known that there were fires in there.

It is known he knew (by telling residents to fake it) that he was violating the law)

It is known the stairwell was treacherous.

What exactly is it they are investigating

There are no mysteries here moo

They haven't told us what they're investigating but even though there may not be mysteries, I expect there are a lot of details to nail down in order to charge people correctly and make it stick in court. I say, let them all take as much time as it takes to get convictions. What's the rush? They need to get this right IMO.

 

[KaaBoom]

Take heart! I think it's way too soon to conclude that no one will be charged. It's a complex investigation that could take many months or even a year. I expect charges. They may not be the many counts of murder two I hope Ion will be charged with, but I'm sure he and the owner will be charged with something. I don't believe they will just walk away from this. Of course once they're charged there will be at least two years of legal maneuvering before a trial and the possibility of plea deals along the way. So we're in for a long, slow slog IMO.

I'm not so sure. When they start dragging their feet like this, it's usually not a good sign.

 

[Really?]

Multiple extension cords = fire

 

[CARIIS]

H Cariis!

Thank you for keeping this thread alive and running! I am deeply disturbed by the deaths from this fire - I can't exactly say why, maybe because I feel that the attendees of that night had no idea of what they were walking into even though Derick Ion and his wife knew that the GS was a potential tinderbox. Like lambs going to the slaughter.

It just feels so bad. I don't believe that any of the 36 would have crossed the threshold of the GS that night had they known about the sparking, arcing eletrical cords and that Derick Ion himself had laughed at people's warnings about fire risks in the GS.

But to address your post, Derick Ion stole the electricity from the warehouse next to the Ghostship. in a pretty simple way; all you have to do is tie into the electrical supply box and add an outlet. From there you run electricity, either by extension cords (which so far seems to be the main way Ion tapped into it) or by adding conduit from it into yet another supply box. Actually, Ion may have tapped into power using both methods.

If you look at various connections for the lighting used at the GS as shown in the website (which has now unfortunately been turned off) you can see the wiring. It's a hot mess.

IMO, the pertinent fact is that Ion tapped into his neighbor's electrical power supply without any consideration as to the danger it may hold for the end users. Furthermore, when it was pointed out to Ion that there may be a fire risk in the way he was tapping into the electric power, Ion laughed and ignored the warnings.

I cannot in any way see Ion be excused from liability in this fire.

Would you have to kill the box first??

Dont know a lot about it I keep getting hung up on how could you cut the main feed into the next building without being from the power company

If one would "mess with main line into a home - how would a regular person make that main thing dead, to play around with it?

 

[Lilibet]

I'm not so sure. When they start dragging their feet like this, it's usually not a good sign.

Provide a link showing they are "dragging their feet" please or else state that it's JMO. We are less than two months out from the fire. There is NO evidence LE is dragging their feet, but I see this same "criticize LE" theme over and over on threads where arrests aren't immediate. When arrests finally happen, no one apologizes for doubting that LE was working hard. WS is an LE-friendly forum...or it's supposed to be.

I'm giving LE time to get the job done right even if things don't happen on my preferred time table. I rather imagine the families and friends of the victims would like the charges to hold up in court even if arrests take a long time. If they are charged now and the case is lost, LE and the DA would probably be criticized for rushing the investigation.
JMO, MOO

 

[MsMarple]

Would you have to kill the box first??

Dont know a lot about it I keep getting hung up on how could you cut the main feed into the next building without being from the power company

If one would "mess with main line into a home - how would a regular person make that main thing dead, to play around with it?

Most circuit boxes have a main breaker that will cut the power supply so you don't need the power company to do it for you. With older fuse boxes you remove a fuse to cut power. You can also just cut power to a particular circuit. There was a hole in the wall that led to the other building's bathroom so I suspect Ion had access to the circuit breaker.

 

[borndem]

And this. Micah Allison



and then apparently made it all about her and how hard it's been for them to find a new home and concentrate on "changing the narrative" that's out there. With this (IMO) very weak apology:



(Cough) Did I mention it was all about her?

https://www.google.com/amp/www.merc...-shoulders-now/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon

What a hard time they are having -- uh, did I mention that they should be thankful that they are still walking on the streets of Oakland, have their family and are still drawing breath??

 

[borndem]

Give me break - that defies logic (something I often dont have!)


I agree who gives a sh&t- this is just stupid.

What would "keep" the car place from burning down?

The cement is fire resistant. !!!

Goodness - insulting IMO.

bbm

Yup, yep and yes -- If it ever gets to court, the jury will never buy the fire starting next door -- as you say, it's still standing, and so is the wall dividing the buildings. Indeed it does defy logic -- a person does not have to be an electrical engineer to understand that. Try again, Ion.

Plus, prior reports said that the band had extension cords for their amps, etc., so maybe that might have caused a bit of a spark here or there or at the source of the splice or whatever was used to steal the power in the first place. Does Lord Ion think the entire world is that stoopid??

 

[KaaBoom]

Provide a link showing they are "dragging their feet" please or else state that it's JMO. We are less than two months out from the fire. There is NO evidence LE is dragging their feet, but I see this same "criticize LE" theme over and over on threads where arrests aren't immediate. When arrests finally happen, no one apologizes for doubting that LE was working hard. WS is an LE-friendly forum...or it's supposed to be.

I'm giving LE time to get the job done right even if things don't happen on my preferred time table. I rather imagine the families and friends of the victims would like the charges to hold up in court even if arrests take a long time. If they are charged now and the case is lost, LE and the DA would probably be criticized for rushing the investigation.
JMO, MOO

Two months? How long do they need? They know where the fire started. They know what the condition of the building was. What more information do they need? I don't have any specific examples, but I believe in general, if they are going to charge somebody, they will usually do it pretty quickly. If they drag it out like this, it's probably because they don't think they have enough evidence to charge, or they don't have interest. Actually I do have one example. The Chattanooga school bus driver. They didn't wait until the investigation was complete, to arrest him. I believe they arrested him the same day of the crash.

In this case, if they intended to charge anyone, it could have been done in the first few days. I could be wrong, but I think they have already decided not to charge anyone. This case reminds me of the LE shootings, where they conduct an investigation for a year or two, then when they think most people have forgotten about the case, they announce that no charges will be filed. For whatever reason I don't think Oakland has any will to prosecute this case. They may be afraid that a trial will expose more negligence on the part of city officials, or they just don't think they have enough evidence to prosecute.

 

[Lilibet]

Two months? How long do they need? They know where the fire started. They know what the condition of the building was. What more information do they need? I don't have any specific examples, but I believe in general, if they are going to charge somebody, they will usually do it pretty quickly. If they drag it out like this, it's probably because they don't think they have enough evidence to charge, or they don't have interest. Actually I do have one example. The Chattanooga school bus driver. They didn't wait until the investigation was complete, to arrest him. I believe they arrested him the same day of the crash.

In this case, if they intended to charge anyone, it could have been done in the first few days. I could be wrong, but I think they have already decided not to charge anyone. This case reminds me of the LE shootings, where they conduct an investigation for a year or two, then when they think most people have forgotten about the case, they announce that no charges will be filed. For whatever reason I don't think Oakland has any will to prosecute this case. They may be afraid that a trial will expose more negligence on the part of city officials, or they just don't think they have enough evidence to prosecute.

Thanks for posting your thoughts in more detail. Even though I don't see it that way, I respect your opinion and I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens. I'm still hopeful and I hope my optimism isn't misplaced. Time will tell.

 

[MsMarple]

bbm

Yup, yep and yes -- If it ever gets to court, the jury will never buy the fire starting next door -- as you say, it's still standing, and so is the wall dividing the buildings. Indeed it does defy logic -- a person does not have to be an electrical engineer to understand that. Try again, Ion.

Plus, prior reports said that the band had extension cords for their amps, etc., so maybe that might have caused a bit of a spark here or there or at the source of the splice or whatever was used to steal the power in the first place. Does Lord Ion think the entire world is that stoopid??

And yep to you too! I too still feel that the cords the musicians were using that ran down the back stairs may have contributed to the fire (IMO). Remember, initially the fire marshall thought the refrigerator might have been the cause but later eliminated it. IIRC, someone had just bought it and plugged it in. IMO that may have caused the circuit to overload once the music equipment was plugged in. I'm not an electrician so JMOO but It seems like the fridge is the only variable that we know of. Fire officials determined the source to be downstairs at the back of the GS, which I believe is right under the stage.

To be clear, I'm not blaming any of the performers in case it was those extension cords - Ion is at the core of the GS wiring so IMO anyone being paid to perform in that building had the right to assume they were using safe outlets.

It all keeps coming back to Ion, Ion, Ion.

 

[borndem]

Okay, I'm going to take exception to that allegation. For one thing the "adjacent building" could only have been the warehouse next door that Ion was using for power. IOW, he was technically stealing power from that building. If anything, the landlord might end up shouldering more blame because it's pretty clear she was aware that the entire building was sharing power; remember the article stating that she would go to the tenants and tell them what their share of the electric bill was?

>>>> respectfully snipped for space <<<<

In summary, here's what I think... Both Ion and Allison knew there were significant fire risks in the GS - both have been quoted as talking about remedies to lower the risk. That neither did anything, even after taking money that they stated was to be used to lowering that risk should be held against them. How the city of Oakland's attorneys choose to handle that information will determine whether or not Ion, Allison and Ng get away with - literally - murder.

JMO.

Good post, Marple! Totally agree.

IIRC, I think Ion did go out & buy a couple of fire extinguishers... If so, he was acknowledging the fire danger by doing so. (hmmmm). I hope I'm recalling this correctly.

What he did was like -- when a renter calls the landlord & says the furnace quit working & can't be fixed, he brings the renter a blanket. Only this scenario is not deadly, just cold.

Grrrrr.

 

[borndem]

They haven't told us what they're investigating but even though there may not be mysteries, I expect there are a lot of details to nail down in order to charge people correctly and make it stick in court. I say, let them all take as much time as it takes to get convictions. What's the rush? They need to get this right IMO.

Agreed. I'm sure one of their tasks, as in any fire, is to try to find the source of the fire -- but I'll be very surprised if they do since it appears to me that there is nothing left but metal and cinders. OTOH, in similar "total loss" fires, a source is often found. Amazing. Let's hope...

And you're right, they haven't made any comments that the reporters, etc., know about, it seems. Yep, we need patience in spite of how badly we want to see the guilty ones punished. With 36 dead, surely they won't just ignore finding guilt -- there's quite a bit to go around, IMO.

 

[CARIIS]

Two months? How long do they need? They know where the fire started. They know what the condition of the building was. What more information do they need? I don't have any specific examples, but I believe in general, if they are going to charge somebody, they will usually do it pretty quickly. If they drag it out like this, it's probably because they don't think they have enough evidence to charge, or they don't have interest. Actually I do have one example. The Chattanooga school bus driver. They didn't wait until the investigation was complete, to arrest him. I believe they arrested him the same day of the crash.

In this case, if they intended to charge anyone, it could have been done in the first few days. I could be wrong, but I think they have already decided not to charge anyone. This case reminds me of the LE shootings, where they conduct an investigation for a year or two, then when they think most people have forgotten about the case, they announce that no charges will be filed. For whatever reason I don't think Oakland has any will to prosecute this case. They may be afraid that a trial will expose more negligence on the part of city officials, or they just don't think they have enough evidence to prosecute.

I agree. The info has been here for a long time. I think they are gonna let it go.

There is IMO nothing "new" gonna happen.

Several updates to follow

 

[CARIIS]

Here it is now

[FONT=&amp] Talk about an insult-repulsive imo

the Ghost Ship&#8217;s leader, Derick Almena, his wife Michah Allison and the promoters of the electronic dance music the night of the fire are not yet eligible for the funds, said Josette Melchor, executive director and founder of the Gray Area Foundation for the Arts Oakland Fire Relief Fund.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]That&#8217;s because people named in lawsuits related to fault of the fire, even residents displaced from the warehouse such as Almena and his family, will not receive money until the suits are resolved.


Families of two of the 36 people who perished in the Dec. 2 inferno have filed separate lawsuits against Almena, Allison, landlord Chor Ng and her family, promoter John Hrabko and Joel Shanahan, aka Golden Donna, whose 100% Silk provided the electronic dance party that night. if the defendants apply for relief, the foundation will hold the money until the case is resolved to show they weren&#8217;t found responsible for the deadly fire.

In all, at least 55 fundraising campaigns were established, raising more than $2.1 million. The Oakland Athletics Community Fund raised about $800,000. Disbursements from that fund started in December and closed last week, said Cynthia Shaw, a Red Cross spokeswoman.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Daniel Lopez and Omar Vega, neighbors who allegedly provided utility services to the 31st Avenue warehouse, and the city of Oakland and Alameda County were also named as defendants in the lawsuit that claims negligence led to the blaze.

[/FONT]http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2016/12/23/oakland-first-two-lawsuits-to-be-filed-friday-for-ghost-ship-victims/

http://www.eastbaytimes.com/2017/01...o-family-injured-victims-displaced-residents/