GUILTY CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #3

[borndem]

Interesting comments on the FB page referenced

Yes, indeed.

 

[Jax49]

[h=1]10,000 urge SF officials to halt inspections after Oakland fire[/h]
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...-halt-inspections-10811861.php#photo-12057317

The abrupt inspection of the Potrero Hill warehouse her identical twin sister shares with other artists prompted Julie Mastrine to act, bringing her before San Francisco building officials Wednesday.

Armed with an online petition with more than 10,000 signatures, Mastrine called on the Building Inspection Commission to impose a moratorium on fire and code spot inspections that city officials contend are necessary to keep warehouse dwellers safe in the wake of the Dec. 2 Ghost Ship warehouse fire in Oakland that killed 36 people.

 

[JaimeSommers]

And Micah Allison has jumped on to binge post the same nonsensical statement over and over. The woman is a nut case.

Bish is cray.

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[LinasK]

Bish is cray.

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So is Tony Serra, who claims he did his own investigation and found Derick had no criminal negligence, and the 10,000 who signed the petition to put a moratorium on fire and safety inspections. We need more inspections, NOT less!!!

 

[borndem]

BBM. I see Criminal Negligence if not Manslaughter at minimum, although granted I'm not a lawyer. The main blame belongs on Derrick Almena for illegally subletting and renting out the warehouse knowing it was a deathtrap/accident waiting to happen. A couple of little fire extinguishers would be like trying to use a garden hose on a place like that. Secondary blame belongs on the owner Chor Ng for not inspecting her property and installing sprinklers. Thirdly blame city/fire inspectors, then fourth the renters who were living there illegally. And although the specific cause hasn't been pinned down, they are pretty sure it was electrical because of the lights being knocked out and photos of overloaded circuits from DJ's and improper wiring, and they were stealing electricity from the auto shop business next door.

Exactly, LinasK. Exactly that.

(Somehow I missed that they were stealing electricity from next door. Dayam.)

 

[Lilibet]

10,000 urge SF officials to halt inspections after Oakland fire


http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/artic...-halt-inspections-10811861.php#photo-12057317

I read the entire article and I'm appalled. There is no denying the domino effect toward homelessness if artists are evicted. But SF is trying to work with these artists while ensuring their safety, and the artists are trying to protect their turf. This type of attitude and resistance is exactly what I've said would have happened if Oakland had cracked down on The Ghost Ship. The artists are basically a "special interest group" that is looking out for its own interests, not their neighbors safety. While they fight these inspections in SF another fire could happen. Would SF be to blame? Not in my world. I rest my case.
JMO

 

[LinasK]

I read the entire article and I'm appalled. There is no denying the domino effect toward homelessness if artists are evicted. But SF is trying to work with these artists while ensuring their safety, and the artists are trying to protect their turf. This type of attitude and resistance is exactly what I've said would have happened if Oakland had cracked down on The Ghost Ship. The artists are basically a "special interest group" that is looking out for its own interests, not their neighbors safety. While they fight these inspections in SF another fire could happen. Would SF be to blame? Not in my world. I rest my case.
JMO

When we changed our stove cooktop in my home a couple of years ago from electric to gas, we needed to obtain a permit, and were told we were required to install additional smoke detectors in our home.

 

[MsMarple]

I read the entire article and I'm appalled. There is no denying the domino effect toward homelessness if artists are evicted. But SF is trying to work with these artists while ensuring their safety, and the artists are trying to protect their turf. This type of attitude and resistance is exactly what I've said would have happened if Oakland had cracked down on The Ghost Ship. The artists are basically a "special interest group" that is looking out for its own interests, not their neighbors safety. While they fight these inspections in SF another fire could happen. Would SF be to blame? Not in my world. I rest my case.
JMO

Here's an article about another Oakland DIY warehouse named the Totally Intense Fractal Mindgaze Hut that burned in 2015. Two people died.

Oakland warehouse fire in 2015 foretold of Ghost Ship disaster

Nearly two years before a fire killed 36 people inside an Oakland warehouse that city officials say they did not inspect because they considered it vacant, a fire killed two people at a similarly non-permitted live-work building in West Oakland.

But in the March 2015 case, city officials were well aware that people were living in the two-story brick building — even though it was not approved for residential use.

Public records and interviews with former residents and the building owner showed that not only did the city allow the living arrangements to persist, Oakland Fire Department inspectors visited the place three times, giving it a clean bill of health at least once.
...
"Afterwards we went into the Red Cross on Broadway, and Mayor Libby Schaaf came in to speak with us,” said drummer Jason Willer, one of the displaced residents of the adjoining building. “She gave a speech about how she was going to help us rebuild, relocate, and how she wanted to support the arts because we’re the backbone of the city.”

http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...e-fire-in-2015-foretold-of-Ghost-10807217.php

Much more at the link. It's a shame the city didn't make changes after the 2015 fire.

 

[CARIIS]

Here's an article about another Oakland DIY warehouse named the Totally Intense Fractal Mindgaze Hut that burned in 2015. Two people died.



http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...e-fire-in-2015-foretold-of-Ghost-10807217.php

Much more at the link. It's a shame the city didn't make changes after the 2015 fire.

Were all just being silly - no one could tell anyone was in this one either!!

[video=youtube;SuAW8TGwEoM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuAW8TGwEoM[/video]

 

[McMunn]

Exactly, LinasK. Exactly that.

(Somehow I missed that they were stealing electricity from next door. Dayam.)

From what this electrician friend of Derick's says, they all shared one meter.

Jake Jacobitz, who performed electrical work at the warehouse and occasionally stayed there, said breakers at the collective blew out often and the group’s leader Derick Almena would install his own electrical boxes. The power would come through a hole punched through the wall and tapped by anyone who needed it, Jacobitz said.

“The property owner [received] the bill so she would come to the artists; she would come to the mechanics shop; and she would come to the other little shops,” [City Councilman Noel] Gallo said last week. “She would say based on the bill I got you owe $200 this month, you owe me $300 and based on the bill you owe $50.”

http://sfist.com/2016/12/12/overloaded_electrical_line_named_as.php

 

[rascal32]

Gitana, it is NOT strange or unusual that Jen's tragic death has changed you and how you look at things. My 20 yo brother was killed when I was 25 and came in as a John Doe to the ER where I was working... I couldn't save him.

This was August 12, 1982 and I am now 59. My perspective of the world and life changed forever that night and I have never been the same. You are still in the reeling/shock phase as I call it where it all seems surreal. Stuff just doesn't matter like it used too. The phrase"Life is short" takes on a new meaning and not just some glib phrase you though out.

You didn't have enough time. We never had enough time. I would imagine you have the "If only" or "I wish" or "If I just" thoughts that fly through your head. You may not want to be around people, large malls, anywhere there is just a lot of activity nor feel like talking. Especially now during the holidays where the music is cheerful and people are laughing. Not.

You may find that your journey in life has an asterisk from December 2nd forward. The mere fact that Jen was young and died a horrible death is enough to rock anyone's world, let alone anyone's world who loved her.

It seems very different losing someone young, suddenly without warning under dire circumstances than it is losing someone who is older with a prolonged illness. The loss is the same yet different if that makes sense. The grief and grieving process was different for me too, when I think back to my own dad and brother. Don't expect anything more from yourself than you are prepared to give, and you can change your mind on that too. It is an individual process and uncharted territory.

Sorry for being so long winded here. When I read that Jen was there and you hadn't heard from her, my heart sank, as I knew pretty much what you were going to be in for, and I was so glad that Lina's K was there for you and that you knew we were all praying for you and your family. Those are the things you hold onto in the darkest hours, knowing how much you are loved and cared about.

I wish you peace...xo

I'm so sorry for the loss of Jen and the loss of your brother Zuri. I can imagine even after all these years the wound is still there. I lost my 36 year old brother in Feb of 2014 to suicide. Such a shock, no clue and was around him all the time. I also understand the change in life it creates. Our family is also different, there is a before the death and after the death. The holidays are especially hard. There is so much regret, what if and "why didn't I just.. call, text, say I love you one more time. I remember that week so clearly. I was working long days, running around doing my own thing and not giving much thought about him. It was Valentine's Day and I was planning a date night, getting the kids gifts and generally happy when I got the call. I know exactly where I was standing, what I was wearing and I had a smile on my face when I answered the phone. I feel guilty that I was happy and he had been so sad he killed himself and I didn't even know.
I think when we lose someone so young and unexpected it just sinks right in to the depths of your soul and stays there.
My heart goes out to the families of the victims. I know the road they must go down, the path is rough.


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[Rott Mom]

My heart breaks...so many victims were found together...holding each other. They had no
way out - they all knew they were going to die, so they decided to cling to each other.
No words...RIP.

 

[CARIIS]

You know what just hit me? From an aerial view, both buildings are like connected - I wonder if when it was dairy if the entire two buildings were one?

Think of all the trucks parking there at night. The bussiess right next to has a door that looks like trucks could enter or exit. The reason why I wondered that it might make some sense that there was one main electricity feed to the whole facility and over the years it was sectioned out?


I have tried to find picture of when it was a dairy plant but cant seem to find any

Have wondered when the diary folks left and what it was afterwards.

 

[human]

I read the entire article and I'm appalled. There is no denying the domino effect toward homelessness if artists are evicted. But SF is trying to work with these artists while ensuring their safety, and the artists are trying to protect their turf. This type of attitude and resistance is exactly what I've said would have happened if Oakland had cracked down on The Ghost Ship. The artists are basically a "special interest group" that is looking out for its own interests, not their neighbors safety. While they fight these inspections in SF another fire could happen. Would SF be to blame? Not in my world. I rest my case.
JMO

No thought or care at all of the firefighters who may have to respond.

They can take care of their own? How?

And now we have the lawsuits, the gofund me pages. The entitlement. I am curious how many of these starving artists come from families of means

 

[human]

I read the entire article and I'm appalled. There is no denying the domino effect toward homelessness if artists are evicted. But SF is trying to work with these artists while ensuring their safety, and the artists are trying to protect their turf. This type of attitude and resistance is exactly what I've said would have happened if Oakland had cracked down on The Ghost Ship. The artists are basically a "special interest group" that is looking out for its own interests, not their neighbors safety. While they fight these inspections in SF another fire could happen. Would SF be to blame? Not in my world. I rest my case.
JMO

No thought or care at all of the firefighters who may have to respond.

They can take care of their own? How?

And now we have the lawsuits, the gofund me pages. The entitlement. I am curious how many of these starving artists come from families of means

 

[MsMarple]

What did I just read? You must be a special kind of stupid to request that... but 10 thousand of you?

You are not that special any more.

Tenants telling the government to leave them alone, city officials denying responsibility, landlords ignoring fire codes and illegal residences, master tenants breaking the law with no concern for the safety of those entering the GS. This may be the best example of what SNAFU means that I've ever seen. :facepalm:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/us/why-the-ghost-ship-was-invisible-in-oakland-until-36-died.html

The Ghost Ship party was held without any permit from the city. It was promoted on Facebook as an event featuring artists from a Los Angeles music label called 100% Silk. And the gathering’s secret location at the warehouse was announced at the last minute.

After dark, Mr. Madden and Mr. Cline climbed the rickety staircase that led to the Ghost Ship’s second floor.

The dance area was soon filled with familiar faces in Oakland’s underground art scene. The music was trance-inducing.

By 11:15 the party was just getting going. The room was cluttered and dark. It smelled of marijuana and cigarettes.

The first indication of the fire was a new smell, like a firecracker. A group illuminated the floor with iPhones to look for the source, and saw wisps of smoke coming up through the cracks. About a half-dozen people made their way to the stairs, and told others to as well.

But for most it would be too late. In the space of a few minutes, the faint firecracker smell had become a black cloud.

Makes my blood boil. Crappy electrical system, no sprinklers, shoddy "stairway" to hell - all of that could have/should have been corrected. Derick Ion collected money from the tenants supposedly for improvements - which he never made. Where did that money go?

The landlord, Ng, has a properties portfolio of 5 million dollars. She's paid over 26k in fines over the years. Clearly this is a situation where it's cheaper to pay fines than take care of the problems. According to online records the building is only assessed at 43k, with a property tax of about $1300 a year. She's getting more than the property value in rent so how hard would it be to make some improvements?

And the city has some 'splainin to do too:

But the city’s website, which laid out details of the program, was altered after the fire, deleting a passage that called for mandatory annual inspections of all commercial buildings. The entry was also changed to say that when inspections occur, they should take place “approximately” every two years.

Until last spring, the department had had no fire marshal in about three years. The department remains significantly understaffed, with 62 vacancies, despite adequate funding.
...
Oakland’s fire chief, Teresa Deloach Reed, defended her department in an interview at headquarters this week. “We’ve been doing what we always did, and up to this point it worked,” she said. “But now we’ve discovered that maybe what we’ve been doing is not working.”

Chief Deloach Reed, however, rejected blame for the fire. When pressed, she offered, “Possibly we fell short in regards to this incident.”

 

[CARIIS]

Tenants telling the government to leave them alone, city officials denying responsibility, landlords ignoring fire codes and illegal residences, master tenants breaking the law with no concern for the safety of those entering the GS. This may be the best example of what SNAFU means that I've ever seen. :facepalm:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/us/why-the-ghost-ship-was-invisible-in-oakland-until-36-died.html



Makes my blood boil. Crappy electrical system, no sprinklers, shoddy "stairway" to hell - all of that could have/should have been corrected. Derick Ion collected money from the tenants supposedly for improvements - which he never made. Where did that money go?

The landlord, Ng, has a properties portfolio of 5 million dollars. She's paid over 26k in fines over the years. Clearly this is a situation where it's cheaper to pay fines than take care of the problems. According to online records the building is only assessed at 43k, with a property tax of about $1300 a year. She's getting more than the property value in rent so how hard would it be to make some improvements?

And the city has some 'splainin to do too:

We have to let go of this - the way the property was faked sprinklers are not required.

 

[Jax49]

Tenants telling the government to leave them alone, city officials denying responsibility, landlords ignoring fire codes and illegal residences, master tenants breaking the law with no concern for the safety of those entering the GS. This may be the best example of what SNAFU means that I've ever seen. :facepalm:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/us/why-the-ghost-ship-was-invisible-in-oakland-until-36-died.html



Makes my blood boil. Crappy electrical system, no sprinklers, shoddy "stairway" to hell - all of that could have/should have been corrected. Derick Ion collected money from the tenants supposedly for improvements - which he never made. Where did that money go?

The landlord, Ng, has a properties portfolio of 5 million dollars. She's paid over 26k in fines over the years. Clearly this is a situation where it's cheaper to pay fines than take care of the problems. According to online records the building is only assessed at 43k, with a property tax of about $1300 a year. She's getting more than the property value in rent so how hard would it be to make some improvements?

And the city has some 'splainin to do too:

RBBM

That seems to be the vacant lot (1305). The warehouse (1315) is appraised at $413,581 and the taxes are $6644.38.

 

[JaimeSommers]

Respectfully, that is not an OK post

CountingCrows' post was referring to the article Jax49 posted ---- 10,000 residents calling for a halt to inspections ---- not to Jax49.

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[human]

Respectfully, that is not an OK post

I have to disagree. These people are asking for firefighters to put their lives on the line. Frefighters cannot say no to fighting a fire.

They are asking for innocent people to be injured or to die because the people may be totally unaware their lives are at risk.

They are asking that cities will be sued if they agree to unsafe and dangerous conditions.

The deaths of 36 do not seem important, apparently