GUILTY CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #3

[CARIIS]

Even if one could get down the steps finding the front door looks like a task itself

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/12/12/us/oakland-warehouse-ghost-ship-fire.html

 

[HMSHood]

What I want to see is anyone who was criminally negligent to be charged. Negligent homicide. That sociopath who had people warning him and telling him and getting into fights with him, who exposed his little children to this danger - he needs to go to prison for start. Anyone else who profited from the people who frequented that death trap or lived there, who knew what it was like, they need to be prosecuted as well.

Exactly. They need to be prosecuted.

This is one giant Charlie Foxtrot!

 

[HMSHood]

Tenants telling the government to leave them alone, city officials denying responsibility, landlords ignoring fire codes and illegal residences, master tenants breaking the law with no concern for the safety of those entering the GS. This may be the best example of what SNAFU means that I've ever seen. :facepalm:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/22/us/why-the-ghost-ship-was-invisible-in-oakland-until-36-died.html



Makes my blood boil. Crappy electrical system, no sprinklers, shoddy "stairway" to hell - all of that could have/should have been corrected. Derick Ion collected money from the tenants supposedly for improvements - which he never made. Where did that money go?

The landlord, Ng, has a properties portfolio of 5 million dollars. She's paid over 26k in fines over the years. Clearly this is a situation where it's cheaper to pay fines than take care of the problems. According to online records the building is only assessed at 43k, with a property tax of about $1300 a year. She's getting more than the property value in rent so how hard would it be to make some improvements?

And the city has some 'splainin to do too:

One giant Charlie Foxtrot!

I would never go to a party in some abandoned warehouse. You do not know what is in there. :crazy:

 

[DexterMorgan]

Only money speaks.

The defendants will have to pay their lawyers.

I imagine the plaintiff lawyers are on contingency

I imagine there will be 36 lawsuits. Can the defendants go bankrupt on all of them at once or it there some kind of time limit?

What I mean is that all of these suits will not be settled at once.

So how would the bankruptcy work? .I think you can only do it once every seven years.

When one wins a lawsuit, I imagine some assets can be seized. So first one that wins gets something?

Because if the bankruotcy is started at the first lawsuit, can the defendants add the next lawsuits to it?

Does this make any sense at all? What I am asking?

Doesn't the owner of the warehouse have to carry a huge insurance plan if renting it out. I know that we have to pay homeowners insurance for house to keep the mortgage legit.

So did they own the property in full?

Btw. The city is on the hook as well.

Because there were numerous complaints for sometime. So it's not like they didn't know that this warehouse was in use for non commercial purposes. Jmo

 

[DexterMorgan]

Lawyer's have have started soliciting business from my brother. They are vultures. In the old days, it was against the ethical rules to ambulance chase. Now it's merely "frowned upon".

Agree. Lawyers are definitely vultures. But since your brother was snuffed from the chance of any possible reconciliation with his wife. Then sometimes suing can help vent things. Even if its not for money. But just to hold people accountable.

Atleast this way; Derrick and others can't profit from this. Plus the cities commercial regulations will be forced to change. At least I hope.

But Git1. Iam definitely sorry for the loss of your loved one.

 

[human]

Doesn't the owner of the warehouse have to carry a huge insurance plan if renting it out. I know that we have to pay homeowners insurance for house to keep the mortgage legit.

So did they own the property in full?

Btw. The city is on the hook as well.

Because there were numerous complaints for sometime. So it's not like they didn't know that this warehouse was in use for non commercial purposes. Jmo

Weren't the complaints for junk outside?

The owner probably has insurance but who knows what kind. Doubt if she had to cover human habitation. So there will be limits to what insurance covers. Her assets will be attached, I am sure

 

[JaimeSommers]

Sending light and love tonight to the families and friends of those lost in the fire. I can't imagine getting through this first Hanukkah and Christmas. ♡♡♡

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

 

[DexterMorgan]

Weren't the complaints for junk outside?

The owner probably has insurance but who knows what kind. Doubt if she had to cover human habitation. So there will be limits to what insurance covers. Her assets will be attached, I am sure

I thought complaints were about previous parties as well.

But geez louise.

Some seem to be rooting for the city to avoid legal ramifications due to no permits.

But if your neighbor turned a home into whatever and you complained. Then wouldn't you want their home completely searched for violations?


Or would you stick up for the city?

 

[human]

I thought complaints were about previous parties as well.

But geez louise.

Some seem to be rooting for the city to avoid legal ramifications due to no permits.

But if your neighbor turned a home into whatever and you complained. Then wouldn't you want their home completely searched for violations?


Or would you stick up for the city?

I was on my zoning board for years in my tiny town. We only had two commercial enterprises. It is a very desirable place to live because we kept it basically residential.

Because of that, people were always trying to sneak things in. The only way we knew was if a neighbor reported. Otherwise, there is no way of knowing.

We had one guy who built a structure totally outside of the rules. The neighbor complained. I think it is in yesr four trying to get him to move it. This is with a court order.

Do you or anyone know what is going on in buildings you see? I would know in my community about certain things because we only allowed certain activities in different zones. If someone chose to ignore the rules which they were always doing, it was a neighbor who would report.

People are very concerned about govt. intrusion so things have to be handled carefully. I see lying things on the net about some place that outlawed catching rainwater. Total lie. But people spread these ideas that govt is out to get you so the enforcing of rules has to be done with finesse.
Usually the landowner is given time to fix the problem. It they cooperate, extensions are generally granted.

It is a dance with some people.

 

[Soulsad]

MERRY CHRISTMAS from our home to yours❣

 

[SophieRose]

I was on my zoning board for years in my tiny town. We only had two commercial enterprises. It is a very desirable place to live because we kept it basically residential.

Because of that, people were always trying to sneak things in. The only way we knew was if a neighbor reported. Otherwise, there is no way of knowing.

We had one guy who built a structure totally outside of the rules. The neighbor complained. I think it is in yesr four trying to get him to move it. This is with a court order.

Do you or anyone know what is going on in buildings you see? I would know in my community about certain things because we only allowed certain activities in different zones. If someone chose to ignore the rules which they were always doing, it was a neighbor who would report.

People are very concerned about govt. intrusion so things have to be handled carefully. I see lying things on the net about some place that outlawed catching rainwater. Total lie. But people spread these ideas that govt is out to get you so the enforcing of rules has to be done with finesse.
Usually the landowner is given time to fix the problem. It they cooperate, extensions are generally granted.

It is a dance with some people.

There are and have been lots of homes in the Santa Cruz Mountains built without permits.

An article after a 2002 fire in the mountains.
http://santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/2675/index.php

The Croy Road fire reduced 34 structures to rubble 15 trailers, 13 houses and six mobile homes, Gibson said. Thirty-two of the dwellings were built without county permits, she said.
Overall, 99 dwellings were in the fire zone, Gibson said, adding that 28 of them were not found on the county tax assessor's rolls. Twenty-three others didn't meet the threshold for taxation, she said.

 

[human]

There are and have been lots of homes in the Santa Cruz Mountains built without permits.

An article after a 2002 fire in the mountains.
http://santacruz.indymedia.org/newswire/display/2675/index.php

The Croy Road fire reduced 34 structures to rubble 15 trailers, 13 houses and six mobile homes, Gibson said. Thirty-two of the dwellings were built without county permits, she said.
Overall, 99 dwellings were in the fire zone, Gibson said, adding that 28 of them were not found on the county tax assessor's rolls. Twenty-three others didn't meet the threshold for taxation, she said.

Special. They did not pay taxes for services they receive. This is the type of thing that gets me angry.

 

[borndem]

Special. They did not pay taxes for services they receive. This is the type of thing that gets me angry.

Unless there is some very good reason for this partiality (what could it be??? I don't see any mention of a grandfather clause or anything.), seems like it would be difficult to answer the question, "Why do I have to pay and she doesn't?"

 

[CARIIS]

Git

what are the distances involved in support systems?

 

[borndem]

I just saw this -- if it has already been posted, please forgive.

[h=1]Oakland: Ghost Ship fire victim families allege multiple people to blame in lawsuits [/h]OAKLAND — From the building owner to the concert promoter, the master tenant to the city and the county, everyone bears some responsibility in the Dec. 2 warehouse fire that killed 36 people, according to the first lawsuits and claims filed Friday over the deadly Ghost Ship blaze by two grieving sets of parents.

http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/...ts-to-be-filed-friday-for-ghost-ship-victims/

And what about this paragraph in the above liked article:

In the claim against the city, the families alleged that Oakland firefighters knew about the dangers of the Ghost Ship and that “employees, agents and/or representatives of the Oakland Fire Department attended and held a music event at the Ghost Ship before Dec. 2.” That claim mirrors what Almena’s attorneys said earlier this week in a statement that the fire department hosted a music event at the Ghost Ship.

Is that a fact? If so, ouch, ouch, for the OFD. Talk about lawsuit for negligence.... MOO

 

[Spellbound]

Thinking of you, Gitana, and how hard this day may be. Sending love and healing your way.

 

[DexterMorgan]

I just saw this -- if it has already been posted, please forgive.




http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/12/...ts-to-be-filed-friday-for-ghost-ship-victims/

And what about this paragraph in the above liked article:



Is that a fact? If so, ouch, ouch, for the OFD. Talk about lawsuit for negligence.... MOO

Oh wow. I wonder if this is true. But I'm sure others will still use the no permit/ hands still tied excuse. Or the firefighters were on personal time so they were allowed to have the blinders on excuse

So if true. Then this changes the no knowledge of the parties and mazes in this hazardous warehouse by the fire department . Jmo.

 

[human]

If you are a firefighter, why is it a firefighter should know about if a building has a permit or not? How many structures are there in Oakland ? Should fire fighters have permits memorized? Should firefighters receive permit applications and the acceptance or denial of permits?

Truly, I do not understand what is the responsibility of the fire fighters.

Govt has to rely on the law abiding of people. When we drive, there are not police always.

That is why law book are so thick. People are always trying to skirt the law. They either fancy themselves exceptional or they have no regard for laws.

 

[DexterMorgan]

If you are a firefighter, why is it a firefighter should know about if a building has a permit or not? How many structures are there in Oakland ? Should fire fighters have permits memorized? Should firefighters receive permit applications and the acceptance or denial of permits?

Truly, I do not understand what is the responsibility of the fire fighters.

Govt has to rely on the law abiding of people. When we drive, there are not police always.

That is why law book are so thick. People are always trying to skirt the law. They either fancy themselves exceptional or they have no regard for laws.

They are saying that the firefighters didn't know to inspect the place because they were not on record with them as having permits or fire alarms that connect to the fire department.

Which is odd. Because I think an occupied warehouse should automatically be required inspections. Especially since it is a known art gallery that held parties in a commercial building. Pus especially since the city knew that the commercial warehouse was being used per complaints made.

Plus Derrick tried to sue a femaleTennant in the past as well for back rent in this commercial building.

So this wasn't just some vacant crack den down the street. Jmo

 

[human]

They are saying that the firefighters didn't know to inspect the place because they were not on record with them as having permits or fire alarms that connect to the fire department.

Which is odd. Because I think an occupied warehouse should automatically be required inspections. Especially since it is a known art gallery that held parties in a commercial building. Pus especially since the city knew that the commercial warehouse was being used per complaints made.

Plus Derrick tried to sue a femaleTennant in the past as well for back rent in this commercial building.

So this wasn't just some vacant crack den down the street. Jmo

The only thing I can suggest is for you to drive around your community and identify what buildings are being used for.

Then determine if they have permitted uses for what they are actually being used for