GUILTY CA - Massive fire at Oakland warehouse party, 36 dead, 2 Dec 2016 #3

[DexterMorgan]

The only thing I can suggest is for you to drive around your community and identify what buildings are being used for.

Then determine if they have permitted uses for what they are actually being used for

Wth.

Am I a firefighter department official or city official to make these calls of what commercial properties should I check.

Come on.

Btw.

If there are 1000 Comercial properties in my district. But only 950 are registered with us.

But I know that some of the other remaining 5o are being occupied.

Then I would probably let them know that we have complaints that this building holds parties and whatever else.

But we need to inspect this place before red tapping the entire property.

Jmo.

 

[CARIIS]

I do not understand -maybe it is holidays, but why has nothing happened - they know what they know if started on the left or right that does not matter, does it, in terms of filing charges if they are going to .

I wonder if this means none will be filed??

 

[Hatfield]

A long time ago I had a situation once where I called a maintenance man to come hook up a new gas stove we had purchased.

All he had to do was turn the gas off and unhook one stove and hook up the other one.

He gets about half way through and gives me bad news that he is not only not going to be able to hook it up but he is putting some sort of warning tag on my gas line to flag it that the stove cannot be hooked up by any other repair man until I get other repairs done to the main gas line that ran under the crawlspace. Evidently I had some sort of gas leak that needed more major work to get it fixed.

I of course was a little upset however I did understand why he was doing that and of course I wanted to fix any gas leaks permanently and not just put a bandaid on it.

After hearing of major fires like this one It gives me a better appreciation for when officials try to make sure people do proper repairs or even shut places down if they have to. So long as they do it for the right reasons and not just to make money off of permits and that sort of thing.

 

[human]

The law states that permits cannot be money makers. The permit has to equal the cost of public notification such as publicizing in newspapers if it is a conditional use or variance, the cost of mailings to adjacent property owners if it is a variance or conditional use hearing, the cost of associated personnel for inspectors , attorneys and so forth.

The property owner has to pay the cost of hearings, fees for inspections, their attorney if needed, permits.

 

[borndem]

I found this just now -- apparently some things are in motion WRT violations, etc. A couple of tenants, one current, one past, say they knew the place wasn't safe, etc.

[h=1]Ghost Ship lawsuits call warehouse a 'death trap'[/h]By Eliott C. McLaughlin, CNN

Updated 3:22 PM ET, Mon December 26, 201

(CNN)A slew of people, including the building owner and employees of various city and county departments, knew Oakland's Ghost Ship warehouse posed dangers long before a deadly blaze killed 36 people earlier this month, the parents of two partygoers who perished have alleged in lawsuits.

Among those who should've been aware of the hazards are members of the Oakland Fire Department who "attended and held a music event" there prior to the deadly fire, the lawsuits say without elaborating. They also note that the nearest fire station is about a block away.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/ghost-ship-fire-lawsuits-oakland/
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There is a fair amount of info in this article -- very much worth reading. Note the 2nd quoted paragraph above -- we see it again. Hmmm. We'll see.

This horrible tragedy just may turn into one helluva mess for many entities and individuals. It's gonna be in the courts for a while, IMO. Lots of blame to go around.

 

[gitana1]

Git

what are the distances involved in support systems?

What do you mean?

 

[CARIIS]

What do you mean?

Are (proximity) wise close to where your brother lives - in terms of being able to see if he is ok??

Or does he live in another city??

 

[human]

I found this just now -- apparently some things are in motion WRT violations, etc. A couple of tenants, one current, one past, say they knew the place wasn't safe, etc.




http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/ghost-ship-fire-lawsuits-oakland/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fair amount of info in this article -- very much worth reading. Note the 2nd quoted paragraph above -- we see it again. Hmmm. We'll see.

This horrible tragedy just may turn into one helluva mess for many entities and individuals. It's gonna be in the courts for a while, IMO. Lots of blame to go around.

As a retired teacher, I was a mandated reporter. We had trainings every year.

I went on home visits. We were told in our trainings that life style choices did not constitute child abuse. Plain filth did not matter. Animal or human feces do.

It was revolting what we had to bypass as lifestyle choice.

I would think that climbing those "stairs" would be weird. Not sure if it would register as child abuse though.

Are social workers supposed to look for fire safety stuff? As a teacher, that never was something we were supposed to concern ourselves with.

I wonder if CPS failed. The laws may not be what we think they should be. Parents get a lot of latitude in how and what the conditions are that their children live in.

 

[borndem]

And we can only assume for now, that Almeda/Allison gave the Ghost Ship address to the school for their children's info (assuming their children were old enuff to go to school).

 

[MsMarple]

I found this just now -- apparently some things are in motion WRT violations, etc. A couple of tenants, one current, one past, say they knew the place wasn't safe, etc.




http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/26/us/ghost-ship-fire-lawsuits-oakland/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a fair amount of info in this article -- very much worth reading. Note the 2nd quoted paragraph above -- we see it again. Hmmm. We'll see.

This horrible tragedy just may turn into one helluva mess for many entities and individuals. It's gonna be in the courts for a while, IMO. Lots of blame to go around.

Right after the fire a bunch of people - residents, past residents and visitors all talked to msm about how dangerous the Ghostship was. So it's not like everyone thought it was a safe place or anything. I keep hearing how it was a "no fire" collective, meaning no cigarettes or candles and incense had to be burned safely. Yet I've seen dozens of photos of people smoking, candles, incense and even the women fire dancers so that seems like a crock. And what about those propane tanks? :facepalm:

It'll be interesting to see how the claim that firefighters attended an event at the GS plays out. I can only recall one person making that claim and remember that it's Derick Ion's attorneys, including maverick attorney Tony Serra, that are pushing the story because it shunts the blame off of Ion and Allison and onto the city.

Don't get me wrong, the city should share the blame but I'm not convinced that individual firefighters are somehow mandated reporters when it comes to possible fire safety violations like teachers and doctors are about child abuse. So I'm waiting to hear just what responsibility firefighters bear if they see a building that may be in violation. On the one hand it seems like it wouldn't hurt to submit an address for inspection but on the other hand if they don't are they somehow breaking the law?

I'm afraid it's going to be a long time before any final reports are published and it may be even longer before any criminal charges are filed. Bureaucracy at its finest I hate to say.

Oh, and those people who eagerly talked to msm about the GS being a death trap? Most of them are on SM defending derick Ion and Micah Allison, sending "love" and "support." Ugh, makes me sick. I am so hoping he and his wife get hit with manslaughter charges ASAP. And I hope their kids have been removed from their dubious care.

 

[human]

Right after the fire a bunch of people - residents, past residents and visitors all talked to msm about how dangerous the Ghostship was. So it's not like everyone thought it was a safe place or anything. I keep hearing how it was a "no fire" collective, meaning no cigarettes or candles and incense had to be burned safely. Yet I've seen dozens of photos of people smoking, candles, incense and even the women fire dancers so that seems like a crock. And what about those propane tanks? :facepalm:

It'll be interesting to see how the claim that firefighters attended an event at the GS plays out. I can only recall one person making that claim and remember that it's Derick Ion's attorneys, including maverick attorney Tony Serra, that are pushing the story because it shunts the blame off of Ion and Allison and onto the city.

Don't get me wrong, the city should share the blame but I'm not convinced that individual firefighters are somehow mandated reporters when it comes to possible fire safety violations like teachers and doctors are about child abuse. So I'm waiting to hear just what responsibility firefighters bear if they see a building that may be in violation. On the one hand it seems like it wouldn't hurt to submit an address for inspection but on the other hand if they don't are they somehow breaking the law?

I'm afraid it's going to be a long time before any final reports are published and it may be even longer before any criminal charges are filed. Bureaucracy at its finest I hate to say.

Oh, and those people who eagerly talked to msm about the GS being a death trap? Most of them are on SM defending derick Ion and Micah Allison, sending "love" and "support." Ugh, makes me sick. I am so hoping he and his wife get hit with manslaughter charges ASAP. And I hope their kids have been removed from their dubious care.

Wow. Sending love? Ugh ugh ugh. How about compassion and understanding for those who died!

 

[borndem]

Right there with ya, MsMarple. It makes a lot of sense for it to be Almena & Allison who are pushing the stories about OFD members being there. Certainly it's possible that they were, but we'll have to see. I think it's gonna be a while before any case is resolved.

There are just so many people who did not survive the horrors, oh, so many.

 

[vulture]

(edited for space)Then sometimes suing can help vent things. Even if its not for money. But just to hold people accountable.

But Git1. Iam definitely sorry for the loss of your loved one.

I know the feeling of wanting people to be accountable, even if the chances of getting money are not that great. I'm considering taking my ex-boyfriend to small claims court for emotional abuse because his treatment of me required me to spend about $4,000 on therapy. That's the part insurance didn't pay. I can afford it and I have way more money than he does, not that I'm pleased about having to spend money on that, there are a lot better things I could have done with it. I want him to be forced to explain himself, I think that will make me feel better. I'm not 100% sure if it will. I have sent the demand letter, that was emotionally difficult for me but I started improving more rapidly after some initial anxiety. Whether I will go the next step I'm not sure yet but I kind of feel better knowing I legally have the option. Even though I probably won't win.

 

[human]

Tiny homes in Oakland

http://nationswell.com/gregory-kloehn-homes-on-wheels-for-homeless/

 

[borndem]

Re "Tiny homes in Oakland" -- This shows that men/women can indeed be supermen/superwomen -- what an inspiration to anyone who believes/wants to believe in a Supreme Being walking on this earth as Everyman.

 

[CARIIS]

Right after the fire a bunch of people - residents, past residents and visitors all talked to msm about how dangerous the Ghostship was. So it's not like everyone thought it was a safe place or anything. I keep hearing how it was a "no fire" collective, meaning no cigarettes or candles and incense had to be burned safely. Yet I've seen dozens of photos of people smoking, candles, incense and even the women fire dancers so that seems like a crock. And what about those propane tanks? :facepalm:

It'll be interesting to see how the claim that firefighters attended an event at the GS plays out. I can only recall one person making that claim and remember that it's Derick Ion's attorneys, including maverick attorney Tony Serra, that are pushing the story because it shunts the blame off of Ion and Allison and onto the city.

Don't get me wrong, the city should share the blame but I'm not convinced that individual firefighters are somehow mandated reporters when it comes to possible fire safety violations like teachers and doctors are about child abuse. So I'm waiting to hear just what responsibility firefighters bear if they see a building that may be in violation. On the one hand it seems like it wouldn't hurt to submit an address for inspection but on the other hand if they don't are they somehow breaking the law?

I'm afraid it's going to be a long time before any final reports are published and it may be even longer before any criminal charges are filed. Bureaucracy at its finest I hate to say.

Oh, and those people who eagerly talked to msm about the GS being a death trap? Most of them are on SM defending derick Ion and Micah Allison, sending "love" and "support." Ugh, makes me sick. I am so hoping he and his wife get hit with manslaughter charges ASAP. And I hope their kids have been removed from their dubious care.

There was one report when he was found at the Marriot that said woman with badges took the children thank goodness!

 

[CARIIS]

As a retired teacher, I was a mandated reporter. We had trainings every year.

I went on home visits. We were told in our trainings that life style choices did not constitute child abuse. Plain filth did not matter. Animal or human feces do.

It was revolting what we had to bypass as lifestyle choice.

I would think that climbing those "stairs" would be weird. Not sure if it would register as child abuse though.

Are social workers supposed to look for fire safety stuff? As a teacher, that never was something we were supposed to concern ourselves with.

I wonder if CPS failed. The laws may not be what we think they should be. Parents get a lot of latitude in how and what the conditions are that their children live in.

Living conditions are big for CPS. I had kids that were living without power and got taken away.

If the stuff we have heard about CPS is true some heads are rolling. If they were living there after they were mandated not to .

L

luckily - it has gotten a lot more strict, as society has learned about the horrors of child abuse.

I guarantee they are implementing removal of custody permanently.

They are gonna being playing off each other - there were two different CPS agencies involved from different counties- so I think they will all try to blame the other agency.

If it is true that CPS was in there the week before, it would be hard to justify that there were no dangers there - it just burnt to the ground.

I am hoping that the holidays are the reason why nothing is happening.

 

[borndem]

Right after the fire a bunch of people - residents, past residents and visitors all talked to msm about how dangerous the Ghostship was. So it's not like everyone thought it was a safe place or anything. I keep hearing how it was a "no fire" collective, meaning no cigarettes or candles and incense had to be burned safely. Yet I've seen dozens of photos of people smoking, candles, incense and even the women fire dancers so that seems like a crock. And what about those propane tanks? :facepalm:

It'll be interesting to see how the claim that firefighters attended an event at the GS plays out. I can only recall one person making that claim and remember that it's Derick Ion's attorneys, including maverick attorney Tony Serra, that are pushing the story because it shunts the blame off of Ion and Allison and onto the city.

Don't get me wrong, the city should share the blame but I'm not convinced that individual firefighters are somehow mandated reporters when it comes to possible fire safety violations like teachers and doctors are about child abuse. So I'm waiting to hear just what responsibility firefighters bear if they see a building that may be in violation. On the one hand it seems like it wouldn't hurt to submit an address for inspection but on the other hand if they don't are they somehow breaking the law?

I'm afraid it's going to be a long time before any final reports are published and it may be even longer before any criminal charges are filed. Bureaucracy at its finest I hate to say.

Oh, and those people who eagerly talked to msm about the GS being a death trap? Most of them are on SM defending derick Ion and Micah Allison, sending "love" and "support." Ugh, makes me sick. I am so hoping he and his wife get hit with manslaughter charges ASAP. And I hope their kids have been removed from their dubious care.[/QUOTE

bbm Hmmm, good point. I wonder if it is indeed a false claim, could there be a suit of some kind to throw back on them? I'm sure the OFD wouldn't want to sling carp against anyone, but those stmts/accusations are beyond the pale, if false, IMO.

 

[borndem]

Living conditions are big for CPS. I had kids that were living without power and got taken away.

If the stuff we have heard about CPS is true some heads are rolling. If they were living there after they were mandated not to .

L

luckily - it has gotten a lot more strict, as society has learned about the horrors of child abuse.

I guarantee they are implementing removal of custody permanently.

They are gonna being playing off each other - there were two different CPS agencies involved from different counties- so I think they will all try to blame the other agency.

If it is true that CPS was in there the week before, it would be hard to justify that there were no dangers there - it just burnt to the ground.

I am hoping that the holidays are the reason why nothing is happening.

bbm Oh, I hope you are right about those poor children. SMH.

Somehow I missed the info about CPS being in that warehouse and the couple being mandated not to live there. Do you know where I can find that? I'd sure like to read it and prolly SMH even more at this madness.

TIA if you can help!

 

[DexterMorgan]

Cps wouldn't want the kids to live under the same roof with 20 other strangers as well. Plus did the staircase have hand rails support?

If not. Then thats a kiddie safety Hazzard. Jmo