CA CA- Near the San Gabriel Dam, WhtMale, 25-35, UP4360, skeletal remains, possible 1979 death. December 1980.

[cheemsg]

His partial skeletal remains were found near the San Gabriel Dam, at mile marker 22.46.
He was an estimated 5'8, and may have had red/auburn hair.
He might have died a year prior in 1979, or in the earlier months of 1980.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[iamshadow21]

His partial skeletal remains were found near the San Gabriel Dam, at mile marker 22.46.
He was an estimated 5'8, and may have had red/auburn hair.
He might have died a year prior in 1979.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Hmm, bit of confusion over the hair, it also says
Head Hair Description Unknown or Completely Bald, DRK C0L0RED

Maybe brown hair with a reddish cast? Mine looks very dark brunette unless I'm in sunlight or warm electric light. Then you really see the red tones in it. Courtesy, in my case, of one parent dark brunette, one carroty ginger.

 

[cheemsg]

Hmm, bit of confusion over the hair, it also says
Head Hair Description Unknown or Completely Bald, DRK C0L0RED

Maybe brown hair with a reddish cast? Mine looks very dark brunette unless I'm in sunlight or warm electric light. Then you really see the red tones in it. Courtesy, in my case, of one parent dark brunette, one carroty ginger.

Yeah, I do picture it as more dark brown hair with a red tint over full on red hair.

 

[cheemsg]

@Caring1 or @Myrrh any rules out for him?

 

[iamshadow21]

Also, I assumed when I first read the Namus he was found IN the dam. That 'in near' probably-typo threw me. So if he was near a mile marker, rather than in the water, I wonder if he was in a shallow grave or 'self buried'*, and the remains became exposed due to run off into the catchment. Is there any way to check if there was heavy rain in the months before he was found? Any weather geeks out there?

*I may have the term for this wrong (please correct me if so!), but it's what happens in some environments when a body appears when found to have been buried just below the surface, but it's the result of natural processes and time, and the body was actually left on the surface by the killer at the time of disposal. I think I came across it when reading about either Bundy or Ridgway, and I don't have any of the books to hand.

 

[cheemsg]

Also, I assumed when I first read the Namus he was found IN the dam. That 'in near' probably-typo threw me. So if he was near a mile marker, rather than in the water, I wonder if he was in a shallow grave or 'self buried'* that became exposed due to run off into the catchment. Is there any way to check if there was heavy rain in the months before he was found? Any weather geeks out there?

*I may have the term for this wrong (please correct me if so!), but it's what happens in some environments when a body appears when found to have been buried just below the surface, but it's the result of natural processes and time, and the body was actually left on the surface by the killer at the time of disposal. I think I came across it when reading about either Bundy or Ridgway, and I don't have any of the books to hand.

Yeah from google maps, there appears to be a lot of foresty/rocky area going up to the San Gabriel Dam. It's very beautiful and there's a lot of photos of people hiking there and stuff. So maybe he died while hiking?

 

[iamshadow21]

Yeah from google maps, there appears to be a lot of foresty/rocky area going up to the San Gabriel Dam. It's very beautiful and there's a lot of photos of people hiking there and stuff. So maybe he died while hiking?

Perhaps. Or a body dump.

I'm guessing if it's a kind of wild and woodsy place, then animals are the reason we've only got partial remains. If he was hiking, he must have been off the beaten track, if it's a popular hiking area. Even in the woods, if a body is on a popular trail, it tends to be found before it skeletonises.

 

[cheemsg]

If his PMI is off, could he possibly be
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) Joseph Leach, missing since 1976? The height and hair colour match, and he went missing from Cali, on his way to Los Angeles from Fort Bragg.
I can imagine the date of death could be longer ago since he was skeletonized and it reached the point of partial remains and being scattered.

 

[iamshadow21]

If his PMI is off, could he possibly be
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) Joseph Leach, missing since 1976? The height and hair colour match, and he went missing from Cali, on his way to Los Angeles from Fort Bragg.
I can imagine the date of death could be longer ago since he was skeletonized and it reached the point of partial remains and being scattered.

Hey, you know what? With the little we know, Leach looks really close. Absolutely not out of the realm of possibility. The height, age, race, red hair, PMI, location.... well worth looking into. Good find!

 

[iamshadow21]

If his PMI is off, could he possibly be
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs) Joseph Leach, missing since 1976? The height and hair colour match, and he went missing from Cali, on his way to Los Angeles from Fort Bragg.
I can imagine the date of death could be longer ago since he was skeletonized and it reached the point of partial remains and being scattered.

Also, this Namus is all over the shop... It says all parts recovered, but also says partial skeletal parts only. *throws up hands*

 

[cheemsg]

Also, this Namus is all over the shop... It says all parts recovered, but also says partial skeletal parts only. *throws up hands*

I know right. Even the description says 'partial remains' and then all parts recovered. I'll try and submit but I'm not sure if he's already been ruled out.

 

[iamshadow21]

I know right. Even the description says 'partial remains' and then all parts recovered. I'll try and submit but I'm not sure if he's already been ruled out.

Yeah, I can't check because I don't have an account, and I'm not in the US, so I can't see ruleouts. Good luck! *crosses fingers AND toes*

Is this you, Joseph? I really hope so.

And if it isn't, we'll keep looking.

 

[cheemsg]

Yeah, I can't check because I don't have an account, and I'm not in the US, so I can't see ruleouts. Good luck! *crosses fingers AND toes*

Is this you, Joseph? I really hope so.

And if it isn't, we'll keep looking.

Can't see rule outs either but I messaged the contact with the possible match and they're out of the office until the 28th. I really hope this is him and I hope that they actually still have anything to test. But yeah, crossing my fingers hard too.

 

[iamshadow21]

Can't see rule outs either but I messaged the contact with the possible match and they're out of the office until the 28th. I really hope this is him... or that they even still have anything to test against...

Yeah. If they still listed whether they had DNA, dentals, fingerprints available/unavailable like they used to, from the look of the older threads, then we'd know better whether we were backing something possible, or impossible to prove.

I guess we just wait, and hope we hear back one way or the other.

Any other likely folks knocking around Namus or Charley that you've seen? Only a small subset of the population having red hair should narrow the field a bit.

 

[cheemsg]

Yeah. If they still listed whether they had DNA, dentals, fingerprints available/unavailable like they used to, from the look of the older threads, then we'd know better whether we were backing something possible, or impossible to prove.

I guess we just wait, and hope we hear back one way or the other.

Any other likely folks knocking around Namus or Charley that you've seen? Only a small subset of the population having red hair should narrow the field a bit.

I think that's the problem. There aren't many people missing in the time/location that had auburn hair. I guess I'm confident in the Leach match bc of how the hair colour is fairly uncommon.

 

[iamshadow21]

I think that's the problem. There aren't many people missing in the time/location that had auburn hair. I guess I'm confident in the Leach match bc of how the hair colour is fairly uncommon.

What about if we go a little older or younger? Or back to, say, '75? We've seen sketetal Does' PMIs be way off. I read one a few weeks back, there was debate about whether she was wearing genuine '70s or retro stuff from thirty years later. People were sure that it was more recent, because of the state of the remains and the clothing. Turns out, when she was IDed, there was no doubt she was killed in the '70s.

 

[cheemsg]

What about if we go a little older or younger? Or back to, say, '75? We've seen sketetal Does' PMIs be way off. I read one a few weeks back, there was debate about whether she was wearing genuine '70s or retro stuff from thirty years later. People were sure that it was more recent, because of the state of the remains and the clothing. Turns out, when she was IDed, there was no doubt she was killed in the '70s.

Yeah apparently it's extremely hard to guess cause of death with bones. I searched 1975-1980 disappearances. Maybe he died in the early 70s even?

 

[iamshadow21]

Yeah apparently it's extremely hard to guess cause of death with bones. I searched 1975-1980 disappearances. Maybe he died in the early 70s even?

Yeah, sorry, I meant to suggest '73, not '75. I'm doing that not-paying-attention thing again. It's 2:30am, my Ritalin wore off many hours ago, and I'm sleuthing while watching an episode of MASH.

EDIT: LOL, apparently the swear censor won't let me put the stars in MASH, and I have no idea why.

 

[John/Jane Doe]

I also think that Joseph Leach is a likely possible match.

I would also like to mention Bruce Walls who also matches the description of this John Doe quite well.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

 

[iamshadow21]

I also think that Joseph Leach is a likely possible match.

I would also like to mention Bruce Walls who also matches the description of this John Doe quite well.

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

By bringing people, information, forensic science and technology together, NamUs helps resolve cases.

www.namus.gov

Description looks good. The PMI might be too tight - only a few months. Do we know anything about the circumstances Bruce went missing under? I know we've had plenty of crosscountry Doe matches, so I'm not dissing it as a potential match, I'm just wondering if there's more information than there is on Namus somewhere that suggests an LA connection. Sometimes Namus has very little, but there's stuff on DoeNetwork or Charley or a coroner's site that gives more background.

EDIT: I did try both links on the Namus, both were dead for me, 404 or not found.