CA CA - Newark "Mowry Ave Jane Doe" WhtFem UP53306 <40, Oct 85

[kforbes862]

The more I look at both cases, the more I do think that this is a plausible match given all of the circumstances.

 

[HippieBeachChick]

Good thinking - please put in a comparison table here listing the various key attributes of both cases to see what lines up. Sally isn't listed on this UID's ruleout page in Namus (there is only 1 r/out listed). Sally's missing persons file in Namus has 12 ruleouts but this body isn't amongst them.

Thank you for explaining!

Starting with physical appearance, I know that the artists sometimes slightly accentuate features seen on the skull in order to draw attention to memorable features. Both the drawing and Sally have a slight curve to their nose, their eyes are set back and the same distance apart, muscle tone around their mouths is not clearly defined, and their jaw, face shape, and forehead are similar.

Comparisons based on the info provided:

Sally went missing Feb 18 1984, approximately twenty months before Mowry Doe was discovered on October 24th 1985. This is admittedly the weakest of my comparisons since the skeleton was estimated to be 6 months old.

Mowry Ave Jane Doe was found in Newark CA, only an hour and a half drive from San Anselmo where Sally went missing.

Doe would have been under 40 estimates 5’6-5’8. Sally was 26 and 5’4, but considering height obtained by skeleton is an estimate, I don’t think that should rule out the possibility. They think Doe had brown to red-brown hair, Sally also had brown hair.

Sally’s disappearance was unusual and the circumstances were unclear. This leaves room for a variety of possibilities.

Even if this is not the strongest comparison, I think it’s strong enough to be looked into.

 

[Susikatze]

Thank you for explaining!

Starting with physical appearance, I know that the artists sometimes slightly accentuate features seen on the skull in order to draw attention to memorable features. Both the drawing and Sally have a slight curve to their nose, their eyes are set back and the same distance apart, muscle tone around their mouths is not clearly defined, and their jaw, face shape, and forehead are similar.

Comparisons based on the info provided:

Sally went missing Feb 18 1984, approximately twenty months before Mowry Doe was discovered on October 24th 1985. This is admittedly the weakest of my comparisons since the skeleton was estimated to be 6 months old.

Mowry Ave Jane Doe was found in Newark CA, only an hour and a half drive from San Anselmo where Sally went missing.

Doe would have been under 40 estimates 5’6-5’8. Sally was 26 and 5’4, but considering height obtained by skeleton is an estimate, I don’t think that should rule out the possibility. They think Doe had brown to red-brown hair, Sally also had brown hair.

Sally’s disappearance was unusual and the circumstances were unclear. This leaves room for a variety of possibilities.

Even if this is not the strongest comparison, I think it’s strong enough to be looked into.

If Sally was not adopted, there is no way she is our UID. Do we know more about her family?

Also, we know from the biological mothers timeline that she married in 1949 or 1950 (no time to check the thread) and her babies that she adoped out were born before that. Sally was born too late to realistically be our JD

 

[Melt71]

Thanks for explaining @Susikatze

 

[summergirl1]

Wouldn't DNA have ruled Sally out already?

 

[The4TierBridge]

Wouldn't DNA have ruled Sally out already?

I don’t think that NamUs does automatic exclusions anymore. There have been several people who were in the system at the same time on the Unidentified Dashboard and the Missing Dashboard.

 

[HippieBeachChick]

If Sally was not adopted, there is no way she is our UID. Do we know more about her family?

Also, we know from the biological mother’s timeline that she married in 1949 or 1950 (no time to check the thread) and her babies that she adoped out were born before that. Sally was born too late to realistically be our JD

I do not know if Sally was adopted. I was having a hard time finding more info on her.

I guess I’m not understand where the idea that JD was adopted comes from. Could you give me a link or something to where you’re getting this? Once again, I’m new here so I’m still learning the ropes in regards to finding info on the forums.

 

[Melt71]

I do not know if Sally was adopted. I was having a hard time finding more info on her.

I guess I’m not understand where the idea that JD was adopted comes from. Could you give me a link or something to where you’re getting this? Once again, I’m new here so I’m still learning the ropes in regards to finding info on the forums.

This podcast might help Doe: ID 'Mowry Avenue Jane Doe' Even if you don't listen, the website link lists information about the Jane Doe's birthmother and half sister.

 

[HippieBeachChick]

This podcast might help Doe: ID 'Mowry Avenue Jane Doe' Even if you don't listen, the website link lists information about the Jane Doe's birthmother and half sister.

Thank you! That is fascinating. I tried to find more about Sally and her birth records, from Los Angeles, only list the name Owsley for her mother. It seems there is almost no information about her birth or disappearance in local newspapers at the time. Heck, finding her birth record was very hard. I found it on FamilyTree using the birthday listed on The Doe Network.

 

[AggieLou]

This is all so frustrating. There must be people in Lamar MO area that know something of her family. It's a small town and from the incidents in the newspaper clippings about JDs mother, there must have been some gossip going around. None of Marie's other children admit to knowing anything. Something outside of normal adoption must have gone down. It's possible she was given to another person in the extended family and maybe someone else applied for her birth certificate. It was easier back then to do things outside the normal. Especially in more rural abd undeveloped areas. And there are still millions of people in the U.S. with no birth certificate. This really bothers me that she may never be known, and no family knowing she was theirs.

 

[ninetimesfifteen]

This is all so frustrating. There must be people in Lamar MO area that know something of her family. It's a small town and from the incidents in the newspaper clippings about JDs mother, there must have been some gossip going around. None of Marie's other children admit to knowing anything. Something outside of normal adoption must have gone down. It's possible she was given to another person in the extended family and maybe someone else applied for her birth certificate. It was easier back then to do things outside the normal. Especially in more rural abd undeveloped areas. And there are still millions of people in the U.S. with no birth certificate. This really bothers me that she may never be known, and no family knowing she was theirs.

If she was from California, they seal the original birth record and issue a new one with adoptive parents' names. I thought it's an odd thing to do when I first encountered it while indexing California birth records. They just staple the original behind the amended one (the ones I was indexing were from 1920s/1930s, so a bit older).

 

[Melt71]

This is all so frustrating. There must be people in Lamar MO area that know something of her family. It's a small town and from the incidents in the newspaper clippings about JDs mother, there must have been some gossip going around. None of Marie's other children admit to knowing anything. Something outside of normal adoption must have gone down. It's possible she was given to another person in the extended family and maybe someone else applied for her birth certificate. It was easier back then to do things outside the normal. Especially in more rural abd undeveloped areas. And there are still millions of people in the U.S. with no birth certificate. This really bothers me that she may never be known, and no family knowing she was theirs.

I've also heard on quite a few of the NPE podcasts about situations where the biological mother registered at the hospital with the adoptive mother's documents and insurance, so there was never any adoption paperwork at all - the original birth certificate was issued with the adoptive parents names. It's only when DNA comes into the picture that the situation becomes known.

 

[AggieLou]

If she was from California, they seal the original birth record and issue a new one with adoptive parents' names. I thought it's an odd thing to do when I first encountered it while indexing California birth records. They just staple the original behind the amended one (the ones I was indexing were from 1920s/1930s, so a bit older).

Her half sister was born in a Nazarene home for unwed mothers in Texas in 1949. It's thought this JD is older but not by much. I think the project was searching birth records mostly in Missouri, Kansas, Texas. The Nazarene Church had quite a few homes for unwed mothers, including in California. Could Marie have been sent to California to a home there. I thought the family might have had a connection to the Nazarene Church because a Nazarene minister appeared in court with the parents and Marie. And Marie gave birth to another child in a Nazarene home. Maybe this Jane Doe was born in the state where she was found. Her sister was adopted in Texas and had lived her whole life there at the time she was found.

 

[HippieBeachChick]

This is helpful info. I’ve been trying to find mp’s from states related to this case that have little information, fit the right age range, or have been adopted. I haven’t found anything strong yet.

 

[HippieBeachChick]

If she was from California, they seal the original birth record and issue a new one with adoptive parents' names. I thought it's an odd thing to do when I first encountered it while indexing California birth records. They just staple the original behind the amended one (the ones I was indexing were from 1920s/1930s, so a bit older).

Her half sister was born in a Nazarene home for unwed mothers in Texas in 1949. It's thought this JD is older but not by much. I think the project was searching birth records mostly in Missouri, Kansas, Texas. The Nazarene Church had quite a few homes for unwed mothers, including in California. Could Marie have been sent to California to a home there. I thought the family might have had a connection to the Nazarene Church because a Nazarene minister appeared in court with the parents and Marie. And Marie gave birth to another child in a Nazarene home. Maybe this Jane Doe was born in the state where she was found. Her sister was adopted in Texas and had lived her whole life there at the time she was found.

Her half sister was born in a Nazarene home for unwed mothers in Texas in 1949. It's thought this JD is older but not by much. I think the project was searching birth records mostly in Missouri, Kansas, Texas. The Nazarene Church had quite a few homes for unwed mothers, including in California. Could Marie have been sent to California to a home there. I thought the family might have had a connection to the Nazarene Church because a Nazarene minister appeared in court with the parents and Marie. And Marie gave birth to another child in a Nazarene home. Maybe this Jane Doe was born in the state where she was found. Her sister was adopted in Texas and had lived her whole life there at the time she was found.

While you’re looking into birth records, keep an eye out for Marie Lucie Sagasta. Her parents definitely claimed her as their own, but that’s not always true. She was the right age and was traveling from LA to Ontario Oregon. It’s not unreasonable to think she might have stopped near Newark for some reason. NamUs MP 28038

Edit: the more I look into her the more suspicious I am. She does not have a specific birthdate listed anywhere, only 1947, even though her parents birth dates are clearly documented.

 

[Susikatze]

While you’re looking into birth records, keep an eye out for Marie Lucie Sagasta. Her parents definitely claimed her as their own, but that’s not always true. She was the right age and was traveling from LA to Ontario Oregon. It’s not unreasonable to think she might have stopped near Newark for some reason. NamUs MP 28038

Edit: the more I look into her the more suspicious I am. She does not have a specific birthdate listed anywhere, only 1947, even though her parents birth dates are clearly documented.

I only found specific birthdates for her. And she was a redhead, our JD was not

 

[HippieBeachChick]

I only found specific birthdates for her. And she was a redhead, our JD was not

Thank you for checking! As far as hair goes, Our JD was brown or reddish brown, and I know that her hair looks really bright in the picture, but the picture is kind of washed out, and I’ve seen her hair described as red or auburn, which tends to be darker and more of a reddish brown.

 

[AggieLou]

If she was from California, they seal the original birth record and issue a new one with adoptive parents' names. I thought it's an odd thing to do when I first encountered it while indexing California birth records. They just staple the original behind the amended one (the ones I was indexing were from 1920s/1930s, so a bit older).

How do.you go about searching birth records in state records. Do most states have them online. They should be public record, right?

 

[HippieBeachChick]

How do.you go about searching birth records in state records. Do most states have them online. They should be public record, right?

I know a lot of ancestry platforms have birth records, but I don’t currently have access to any. I don’t know how to look for them in state records, I’m new to this, but I’d love to hear more from someone who does.

 

[ninetimesfifteen]

How do.you go about searching birth records in state records. Do most states have them online. They should be public record, right?

There are loads of indexed ones on ancestry and familysearch (first one requires payment, but libraries often pay for subscription, and you can try there, fs is free after registration). Sometimes there's a picture of the original document attached, sometimes it's just what's been indexed.
As for particular states, it depends. Some have it online, some don't and you have to demand to see the microfilm (if it exist) or waddle through papers.