CA - Off Duty Police Officer shoots man and parents after altercation in Costco, Corona, June 2019

[TaylorJ4]

This police officer says he was assaulted, knocked to the ground while holding a child, and lost consciousness. Then he awoke, pulled out his weapon and shot 3 people. That does not happen in just a few seconds. He shot the parents in the back. Where was the child this entire time?

 

[jjenny]

Yes. This didn't happen when the LE shooter was actually on the clock. He was off duty and shopping as a civilian so it will be difficult to %100 tie this in with the LAPD.

The LAPD can say that the LE shooter did not follow protocol for off duty "use of force" and that it's not their fault he was negligent. The family could end up suing just the LE shooter and not recover anything.

Only he wasn't treated as a civilian. He was even allowed to view the video, according to the brother of the victim. I sincerely doubt a civilian would have been allowed to view the video.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They want the video released, which certainly suggests they believe it will be in their favor. If it were showing an actual self-defense, I presume police wouldn't have minded to have it released.

I'm sure they feel that way.

It sure would have been a benefit to their cause if they could have given more details in the press conference.

The judge who blocked the release of the video did it for a reason. Will it be blocked forever? I doubt that. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Only he wasn't treated as a civilian. He was even allowed to view the video. I sincerely doubt a civilian would have been allowed to view the video.

I don't recall a MSM statement saying that officer Sanchez viewed the store video.

I must have missed that. If possible can you link that.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

This police officer says he was assaulted, knocked to the ground while holding a child, and lost consciousness. Then he awoke, pulled out his weapon and shot 3 people. That does not happen in just a few seconds. He shot the parents in the back. Where was the child this entire time?

I'd like to know the answer to that question and a lot more.

For one I'd like to know what French was doing after he knocked Sanchez to the ground.

 

[jjenny]

I don't recall a MSM statement saying that officer Sanchez viewed the store video.

I must have missed that. If possible can you link that.

That's what the brother of the victim claimed. So I guess you can believe it or not, but there are numerous other things suggesting he wasn't treated as a civilian. Not detained, not arrested, not charged despite shooting 3 people, two of whom clearly didn't assault him.

"The brother also expressed outrage that authorities let Sanchez leave the scene without detaining him. The officer also returned to the store the next day and was allowed to watch the surveillance video before making his statement to authorities, Kevin French said."
‘It Could Happen to Anyone’: Family of Man Fatally Shot by Off-Duty LAPD Officer at Corona Costco Speaks Out

 

[Cool Cats]

Firing "warning shots" is not a good idea IMO. That means there is not an immediate threat of great bodily harm or death if you have time to do that. How do you know it will stop the threat? Also where are these bullets going?

The number of shots are not how people are trained. They are trained to shoot until the threat is stopped. That could be one or it could be many more.

The new California law doesn't apply to this case and I'm not sure if it is different enough from the current standard to make much real world difference. We will see how it plays out in court in the future. JMO

Right, it's a 2020 law not 2019. And that was my point, what's the difference?
what's the difference between these 2 words -- when you only have 5 seconds to make a decision -- within that context.

REASONABLE = OLD LAW

1. (of a person) having sound judgment; fair and sensible.
   "no reasonable person could have objected"
   synonyms:
   rational · open to reason · full of common sense ·
   practicable · suitable
   1. • based on good sense.
        "it seems a reasonable enough request" ·
      • able to think, understand, or form judgments by a logical process.
        "man is by nature reasonable"
      • as much as is appropriate or fair; moderate.
      • a police officer may use reasonable force to gain entry"

NECESSARY = NEW LAW

1. required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential.
   "it's not necessary for you to be here" ·
   obligatory · requisite · required · compulsory · mandatory ·
   inevitable · unavoidable · certain · sure · inescapable · inexorable · fated · destined ·
2. predetermined

 

[Cool Cats]

Only he wasn't treated as a civilian. He was even allowed to view the video, according to the brother of the victim. I sincerely doubt a civilian would have been allowed to view the video.

I've been trying to figure out why some type of action could be taken against the LAPD when the LE shooter was off duty. Like if you work for such and such company and used your conceal carry permit to shoot an aggressive individual in self defense, your company is not liable for what you do after work.

The Rights and Responsibilities of an Off-Duty Police Officer

Acting under color of law

Right to carry concealed firearms

Power to arrest

Right to use force

Reasonable conduct

 

[Deleted member 39678]

That's what the brother of the victim claimed. So I guess you can believe it or not, but there are numerous other things suggesting he wasn't treated as a civilian. Not detained, not arrested, not charged despite shooting 3 people, two of whom clearly didn't assault him.

"The brother also expressed outrage that authorities let Sanchez leave the scene without detaining him. The officer also returned to the store the next day and was allowed to watch the surveillance video before making his statement to authorities, Kevin French said."
‘It Could Happen to Anyone’: Family of Man Fatally Shot by Off-Duty LAPD Officer at Corona Costco Speaks Out

I have a hard time believing that authorities didn't get a statement form officer Sanchez soon after the shooting.

The brother also expressed outrage that authorities let Sanchez leave the scene without detaining him. The officer also returned to the store the next day and was allowed to watch the surveillance video before making his statement to authorities, Kevin French said

.

I'm skeptical about this account by the brother. He's saying that Sanchez wasn't detained. I doubt that LE let him leave without being questioned. Maybe the brother definition of "detained" is different then my own.

How did the brother get the information about Sanchez viewing the video? If the source is not reliable then it doesn't carry much weight with me. JMO.

‘It Could Happen to Anyone’: Family of Man Fatally Shot by Off-Duty LAPD Officer at Corona Costco Speaks Out

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I've been trying to figure out why some type of action could be taken against the LAPD when the LE shooter was off duty. Like if you work for such and such company and used your conceal carry permit to shoot an aggressive individual in self defense, your company is not liable for what you do after work.

The Rights and Responsibilities of an Off-Duty Police Officer

Acting under color of law

Right to carry concealed firearms

Power to arrest

Right to use force

Reasonable conduct

People can file lawsuits for almost any reason. It doesn't mean they have merit or that they will prevail. JMO

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Right, it's a 2020 law not 2019. And that was my point, what's the difference?
what's the difference between these 2 words -- when you only have 5 seconds to make a decision -- within that context.

REASONABLE = OLD LAW
I could try to explain why that law came to be but it would be totally political which Tricia doesn't like on these threads. JMO

1. (of a person) having sound judgment; fair and sensible.
   "no reasonable person could have objected"
   synonyms:
   rational · open to reason · full of common sense ·
   practicable · suitable
   1. • based on good sense.
        "it seems a reasonable enough request" ·
      • able to think, understand, or form judgments by a logical process.
        "man is by nature reasonable"
      • as much as is appropriate or fair; moderate.
      • a police officer may use reasonable force to gain entry"

NECESSARY = NEW LAW

1. required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential.
   "it's not necessary for you to be here" ·
   obligatory · requisite · required · compulsory · mandatory ·
   inevitable · unavoidable · certain · sure · inescapable · inexorable · fated · destined ·
2. predetermined

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Right, it's a 2020 law not 2019. And that was my point, what's the difference?
what's the difference between these 2 words -- when you only have 5 seconds to make a decision -- within that context.

REASONABLE = OLD LAW

1. (of a person) having sound judgment; fair and sensible.
   "no reasonable person could have objected"
   synonyms:
   rational · open to reason · full of common sense ·
   practicable · suitable
   1. • based on good sense.
        "it seems a reasonable enough request" ·
      • able to think, understand, or form judgments by a logical process.
        "man is by nature reasonable"
      • as much as is appropriate or fair; moderate.
      • a police officer may use reasonable force to gain entry"

NECESSARY = NEW LAW

1. required to be done, achieved, or present; needed; essential.
   "it's not necessary for you to be here" ·
   obligatory · requisite · required · compulsory · mandatory ·
   inevitable · unavoidable · certain · sure · inescapable · inexorable · fated · destined ·
2. predetermined

I could try to explain why that law came to be but it would be totally political which Tricia doesn't like on these threads. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

People can file lawsuits for almost any reason. It doesn't mean they have merit or that they will prevail. JMO

Wow! Your so right about that, it's so obvious I missed it. Of course police departments sometimes get sued "left and right" but a jury doesn't have to go along with the
plaintiff's complaints -- they can and do exonerate PD's.

 

[Cool Cats]

I could try to explain why that law came to be but it would be totally political which Tricia doesn't like on these threads. JMO

That is exactly what I thought too. Must be a group being politically correct to appease another group without offending themselves! I see why the owner of WS doesn't want the threads to deteriorate into a political swamp -- no side will ever agree or back down, just constant arguing and grandstanding..

 

[jjenny]

The son was shot in the back. Try to explain how he was a threat at the time of the shooting. I can't imagine if this was done by a civilian this civilian wouldn't have been charged by now. So presumably that's how/why the attorney plans to sue LAPD-the off duty cop was never treated as a civilian would have been.

"Kenneth French was shot twice in his back, Galipo said. There were also two gunshot wounds in his armpit and shoulder area, but it is unclear if those were caused by two separate bullets or represent entry and exit wounds caused by one bullet, Galipo said."

Mom said 'don't shoot' to LAPD officer who killed mentally ill son in Costco: Family

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Duplicate

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Just an observation....these parents are not in this for the money. The civil suit against the city or the officer is not their primary focus. They want some justice. They want the off-duty officer to not be able to serve on the LAPD. They want the shooter to face some charges for his actions. Sadly I think there are forces conspiring against them that will prohibit that possibility. I can't imagine they will be satisfied if all they get out of this is a settlement and some money. Like the mother said, she has to live with this every remaining day of her life. It would be nice if she saw some punishment meted out for her son's death, and the injuries suffered by her and her husband, but unfortunately I think the deck is stacked against her in that respect.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The son was shot in the back. Try to explain how he was a threat at the time of the shooting. I can't imagine if this was done by a civilian this civilian wouldn't have been charged by now. So presumably that's how/why the attorney plans to sue LAPD-the off duty cop was never treated as a civilian would have been.

"Kenneth French was shot twice in his back, Galipo said. There were also two gunshot wounds in his armpit and shoulder area, but it is unclear if those were caused by two separate bullets or represent entry and exit wounds caused by one bullet, Galipo said."

Mom said 'don't shoot' to LAPD officer who killed mentally ill son in Costco: Family

I'd like to see the autopsy report to verify these claims by the families attorney.

So the family is saying that everyone was facing away from Sanchez when he fired his weapon.

Are they saying that they were all fleeing when they were shot in the back. If so, why not say that in today's press conference? JMO

 

[mickey2942]

I would like to know if Sanchez was given any type of test for substances, including anabolic steroids. I noticed his picture, that he is stocky, and very muscular.

Steroids have a lot of side effects, including rage. Not saying that he is on steroids, but I would like to have that ruled out. He was allowed to leave and go home. He did go to the hospital, he had a slight injury.

How many other people could shoot three people at Costco and go home with their family? Must be nice to have access to top notch legal team, courtesy of the union, and get the "facts" straight, before giving a statement.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

I'd like to see the autopsy report to verify these claims by the families attorney.

So the family is saying that everyone was facing away from Sanchez when he fired his weapon.

Are they saying that they were all fleeing when they were shot in the back. If so, why not say that in today's press conference? JMO

The police won't release the autopsy report for the same reason they won't release the video. It most likely does not support their position.

There is a difference between facing away, and having your back to someone, and fleeing, where you're actively running away. My guess is fleeing is the last thing they wanted to do. Nor did they want to confront the guy by approaching him. I'm guessing it happened exactly as one would think it happened. They had their backs to the shooter, and were trying to move their son away from the situation.

Again, I think it's clear that the shooters position would carry a great deal more weight if it was shown he was still being attacked by an approaching soon to be victim. My guess is the autopsy report & video put that in extreme doubt.

He's a cop, therefore he's above the law. When you're special, there are a lot of things you can get away with. That's the way things work nowadays. And when they want to keep the public opinion out of it, they just cover up whatever evidence might contradict their position.