CA CA - Otay, WhtFemale, 14-18, UP16712, homicide, burned, deformed right ear, extensive dental work, Feb'78

[Bit of hope]

FB page has been created for this Jane Doe. Please join and share -

Who Was Otay Jane Doe 1978?

Yes, nice, she needs that. I read that there is no DNA for this Jane Doe and that she can only be identified with dental comparison. There goes my "DNA genealogy identification dream".

 

[Bit of hope]

An interesting read about poisoners who use poison to kill on purpose.

Some pieces from the article. A Psychological Profile of a Poisoner

The Demographics of Death

Contrary to popular belief, the majority of convicted poisoners are men, overwhelmingly so when the victim is a woman. When the victim is a man, the poisoner is equally likely to be male or female. As with other methods of murder, perpetrators rarely cross racial lines when they decide to send a victim to an early grave, meaning African Americans tend to be poisoned by other African Americans, Caucasians by other Caucasians. etc. On average, a homicidal poisoner is 5 to 10 years younger than his/her victim.

Career-wise, homicidal poisoners are over-represented in the medical (doctor, nurse, laboratory professional) or care-taking professions (wife, mother, nursing home attendant), where they have easy access to both the means to kill and a bevy of vulnerable victims. Of course, the vast majority of poisoners knock off someone s/he knows, such as a child, spouse, friend, or acquaintance.

The Bottom Line

Given that 1 out of 5 verified murders by poisoning is never solved, it's hard to draw a definitive psychological profile of the typical poisoner. Those who've been caught and convicted give us some clues — clever, sneaky, emotionally immature, methodical, and self-centered. Many of them are amazingly skilled at pretending to be something they're not — a doting husband, caring nurse, or devoted friend. Behind the mask, though, lies a psyche that is propelled by childish needs and unencumbered by moral restraints.

More details in the article.

Just pondering. Although the cause of death of Otay Jane Doe was poisoning, I challenge the overall belief that this was the main homicidal intention. She was also tortured (beaten), while alive (before her death) and before set on fire (there are also studies about the profile of who would set a body on fire and why, in general). As the poison used is a common pain killer, was it given to her intentionally to cause her death or did she took it because of her aching/root canal tooth (how old was it?) and something happened after that. Considering the extensive beating it was not "just" poisoning, like the people referred to in the article did.

 

[Massachusetts101]

199UFWI
Is this case the same or are they just... too similar?

At first, I was very confused, the Jane Doe I have above has a deformed (cauliflower ) ear and was wearing a western shirt with snap buttons and embroidered with red flowers on the front of the shirt. What if they are related? The nose, lips, shaped of the eyes, and eyebrows. I know this is a long shot but if they are not related, could it be the same killer?

What do you guys think? Too long of a shot?

 

[cvaldez1975]

199UFWI
Is this case the same or are they just... too similar?

At first, I was very confused, the Jane Doe I have above has a deformed (cauliflower ) ear and was wearing a western shirt with snap buttons and embroidered with red flowers on the front of the shirt. What if they are related? The nose, lips, shaped of the eyes, and eyebrows. I know this is a long shot but if they are not related, could it be the same killer?

What do you guys think? Too long of a shot?

this one was id'd and her killer is in custody.

 

[Susikatze]

That is Racine Doe, id'd a few months back as Peggy Johnson from a Chicago suburb. She was abused and murdered by the woman she worked for in exchange for room and board. You can google the case.

 

[ScarlettOSC]

I am new to all of this but the composite photo looks a lot like Kathleen Edna Rogers who went missing in 1973, a little older but this is the best I could find
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[Bit of hope]

199UFWI
Is this case the same or are they just... too similar?

At first, I was very confused, the Jane Doe I have above has a deformed (cauliflower ) ear and was wearing a western shirt with snap buttons and embroidered with red flowers on the front of the shirt. What if they are related? The nose, lips, shaped of the eyes, and eyebrows. I know this is a long shot but if they are not related, could it be the same killer?

What do you guys think? Too long of a shot?

I'm quite certain they are not related. Racine County Jane Doe is identified as Peggy Lynn Johnson and was killed by a woman in 1999 who should have taken care of her but didn't. This ugly creator is in jail. You can read all about it in this thread. Identified! - WI - Racine Co., WhtFem 199UFWI, 14-25, cauliflower ear, July 1999 #2 - Peggy Lynn Johnson *Arrest*

If you track down the whereabouts of Peggy's murderer in 1978 see what you get.

 

[Bit of hope]

I am new to all of this but the composite photo looks a lot like Kathleen Edna Rogers who went missing in 1973, a little older but this is the best I could find
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Hi and welcome @ScarlettOSC I see what you mean. There is a little problem with the age estimate though. Otay Jane Doe is estimated between 14-18 years old (most likely under 16), PMI days. Kathleen was 16 when she went missing in 1973 and would have been 21 yrs in 1978.

 

[ScarlettOSC]

Hi and welcome @ScarlettOSC I see what you mean. There is a little problem with the age estimate though. Otay Jane Doe is estimated between 14-18 years old (most likely under 16), PMI days. Kathleen was 16 when she went missing in 1973 and would have been 21 yrs in 1978.

Yes, that was the biggest issue was the age discrepancy, but I am going to search further and see if I can possibly find any other matches.

 

[ScarlettOSC]

I have two more names, but thats it after that, I have looked everywhere else and these are the only other ones that seem like a match
Barbara G. Glueckert
Barbara G. Glueckert – The Charley Project

Karen Beth Kamsch
Karen Beth Kamsch – The Charley Project

 

[Christie Harris]

An interesting read about poisoners who use poison to kill on purpose.

Some pieces from the article. A Psychological Profile of a Poisoner

The Demographics of Death

Contrary to popular belief, the majority of convicted poisoners are men, overwhelmingly so when the victim is a woman. When the victim is a man, the poisoner is equally likely to be male or female. As with other methods of murder, perpetrators rarely cross racial lines when they decide to send a victim to an early grave, meaning African Americans tend to be poisoned by other African Americans, Caucasians by other Caucasians. etc. On average, a homicidal poisoner is 5 to 10 years younger than his/her victim.

Career-wise, homicidal poisoners are over-represented in the medical (doctor, nurse, laboratory professional) or care-taking professions (wife, mother, nursing home attendant), where they have easy access to both the means to kill and a bevy of vulnerable victims. Of course, the vast majority of poisoners knock off someone s/he knows, such as a child, spouse, friend, or acquaintance.

The Bottom Line

Given that 1 out of 5 verified murders by poisoning is never solved, it's hard to draw a definitive psychological profile of the typical poisoner. Those who've been caught and convicted give us some clues — clever, sneaky, emotionally immature, methodical, and self-centered. Many of them are amazingly skilled at pretending to be something they're not — a doting husband, caring nurse, or devoted friend. Behind the mask, though, lies a psyche that is propelled by childish needs and unencumbered by moral restraints.

More details in the article.

Just pondering. Although the cause of death of Otay Jane Doe was poisoning, I challenge the overall belief that this was the main homicidal intention. She was also tortured (beaten), while alive (before her death) and before set on fire (there are also studies about the profile of who would set a body on fire and why, in general). As the poison used is a common pain killer, was it given to her intentionally to cause her death or did she took it because of her aching/root canal tooth (how old was it?) and something happened after that. Considering the extensive beating it was not "just" poisoning, like the people referred to in the article did.

I spoke with the Doe coordinator and specifically asked about the terminology of calling it a poisoning. She said it’s basically terminology. It’s an overdose. They just don’t know if it was by her hand, on purpose or an accident

 

[Christie Harris]

I have two more names, but thats it after that, I have looked everywhere else and these are the only other ones that seem like a match
Barbara G. Glueckert
Barbara G. Glueckert – The Charley Project

Karen Beth Kamsch
Karen Beth Kamsch – The Charley Project

I can email them to the Doe coordinator directly if you have any.

 

[Melt71]

I spoke with the Doe coordinator and specifically asked about the terminology of calling it a poisoning. She said it’s basically terminology. It’s an overdose. They just don’t know if it was by her hand, on purpose or an accident

Thanks for clarifying, so then it is also entirely possible the beatings, fire etc could have been a pimp or dealer.

 

[Bit of hope]

I spoke with the Doe coordinator and specifically asked about the terminology of calling it a poisoning. She said it’s basically terminology. It’s an overdose. They just don’t know if it was by her hand, on purpose or an accident

I'm very happy with this info. I think others caring for this girl too. Kind of "proofs" my point underneath.

Just pondering. Although the cause of death of Otay Jane Doe was poisoning, I challenge the overall belief that this was the main homicidal intention. She was also tortured (beaten), while alive (before her death) and before set on fire (there are also studies about the profile of who would set a body on fire and why, in general). As the poison used is a common pain killer, was it given to her intentionally to cause her death or did she took it because of her aching/root canal tooth (how old was it?) and something happened after that. Considering the extensive beating it was not "just" poisoning, like the people referred to in the article did.

 

[Christie Harris]

I'm very happy with this info. I think others caring for this girl too. Kind of "proofs" my point underneath.

Just pondering. Although the cause of death of Otay Jane Doe was poisoning, I challenge the overall belief that this was the main homicidal intention. She was also tortured (beaten), while alive (before her death) and before set on fire (there are also studies about the profile of who would set a body on fire and why, in general). As the poison used is a common pain killer, was it given to her intentionally to cause her death or did she took it because of her aching/root canal tooth (how old was it?) and something happened after that. Considering the extensive beating it was not "just" poisoning, like the people referred to in the article did.

On the fire, I haven’t seen any mention of an accelerant. I have thought that she could have been a runaway who was jumping from truck to truck too. She just got in the wrong truck

 

[Christie Harris]

Thanks for clarifying, so then it is also entirely possible the beatings, fire etc could have been a pimp or dealer.

Agreed. I’ve also thought that this could be a sexual assault situation and the fire was to cover evidence since it was on the right side of her chest and groin area

 

[TheBlackParade]

The cases without DNA are really frustrating. Dentals don't seem very promising. If no one posted a missing persons report, then how likely is she to have dental records? In the cases like hers with no DNA, has no DNA sample been taken? Is there a possibility they can exhume her grave?

 

[Alleykins]

California was notorious for cremating their unidentified remains, so they may not be able to obtain DNA.

 

[Christie Harris]

The cases without DNA are really frustrating. Dentals don't seem very promising. If no one posted a missing persons report, then how likely is she to have dental records? In the cases like hers with no DNA, has no DNA sample been taken? Is there a possibility they can exhume her grave?

I was told DNA is not an option

 

[Al Ka]

Guys, few things. What is strangely interesting is the fact that after she was almost beaten to death she was given pain killer by someone to relieve her from that pain of beating. Showing care. She was given perhaps extra doze for her extra pain. Would that "caring" be done by person who have beaten her in the first place or other person in the household or nearby?

Being burned in groin and chest area might have been accidental when someone was trying to burn her whole body but it did not ignite all, but yes, it could also very well be someone covering possible evidence of sexual assault. That was my first thought when I read it too.

DNA - Just one page back brilliant research done by Centipede states that medical examiners and coroners can't locate the original paperwork where she was buried. In my hopeful eyes, this can always change and DNA can be obtained - if the lost paperwork is found or probably easier option - to search nearby cemetaries for Jane Doe graves or any unmarked graves. Usually care takers of cemetaries have basic details and would know in which plot and which year unknown person was buried at their place. Someone just need to make some phone calls or even some leg work to find her.

Old newspaper clippings or old news notices might perhaps help in that search too.