CA - Sergio Aguiar, 2, beaten to death, Turlock, 14 June 2008

[evelyn24]

I honestly don't think 'elderly' until 80s. seriously!

it's possibly because i was raised by grandparents born in 1900 & 1903 respectively.

True...maybe I should make it over 75.


I agree with those who said they would have tried to do something. I just know myself, and I couldn't stand by and watch.

 

[Reannan]

If I somehow magically grew balls, from a litigious standpoint I would also be fearful of paying for years of this dude’s feeding tube should my mighty arm somehow inflict a hearty head injury.

Thank you bertajo for your post. Here is what I have learned - both in life, and from studying the depths that humanity can sink to. First, I just have to state again, that in the case of me observing someone who is attacking someone of weaker stature, you can place your bets on me having a "psychotic break" and not legally being responsible for my actions after that point in time. In this case in particular, I would not have worried about any litigious isues because he would not have been alive to sue me. There had to be a rock on the side of the road! IMHO, it is inexcusable that someone in the group of on-lookers did not pick that rock up and knock him in the head. I understand that people may have been afraid, but guess what.....if you had been living when Mastadons roamed the Earth, you would have been extinct. Life is hard, life is filled with threats. Deal with it or die. That is the lesson that I have learned the hard way, and the lesson that I teach my children.

 

[Taximom]

Experts defend inaction
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/17/BA2G11ARO9.DTL

Bystanders are justifiably scared and confused in such situations, the experts said Wednesday, and they lack the experience needed to respond with force. They can also be mesmerized by shock.
John Conaty, a veteran homicide detective and former patrol officer in Pittsburg, said that in interviews of witnesses to violence, "the common thing you hear is, 'I was frozen in fear. I just couldn't take action.' "
Conaty questioned whether the witnesses had even been capable of stopping Aguiar. "If they were physically able, you have to take a look at whether they were psychologically prepared to intervene," he said.
"I would not condemn these people," said John Darley, a professor of psychology and public affairs at Princeton University who has studied how bystanders react in emergency situations. "Ordinary people aren't going to tackle a psychotic. (much more at link)

 

[mysteriew]

I’m in the car, kids, and I’m not getting out! I am feeling some collective disappointment because these bystanders opted not to act with violence. I don’t have it in me to hurt someone. I have no kung fu skills. I wouldn’t even begin to respond in a physical fashion, and I will not question anyone’s judgment under these circumstances. If someone is so sick as to stop a vehicle in the middle of a road way, remove a child from a carseat and stomp him to death, how exactly should one physically prevent him from this barbaric act in the span of three to four minutes? This is my version: “Excuse me sir, sir, um, could you, um, like move your car over? I’m late for everything. Tough day?”

If I somehow magically grew balls, from a litigious standpoint I would also be fearful of paying for years of this dude’s feeding tube should my mighty arm somehow inflict a hearty head injury. With the uninsured population (myself included at times), I don’t want to tangle with anyone for any reason. I don’t leave the country. I don’t drive on holidays. I’m monogamous. I don’t go to clubs. I’m home by midnight. No strangers. Safety first.

It seems as though reasonable efforts were made by people to report, distract, and intervene. Multiple calls to authorities were made to provide information, and everyone stayed on the scene to offer help. I feel for them. And, I feel badly about the commentary on their behavior. This wasn’t their thing, and they were just doing day-to-day life. In a few weeks, we won't remember these few minutes.

Good post, I agree. For many emergencies I can jump right in. Coming up on a car wreck, I can asses and start right in. Blood, no prob. But violence paralyzes me. And I can just imagine the shock, helplessness and unreal feelings of coming up on a scene where a man is beating or has beaten a child to death. I would like to think that I would jump right in and fight for the child, but to be truthful- I don't know.

Taximom, I just read that article from the 'experts' and it really hit some chords with me.

 

[SewingDeb]

That article from the experts confirms what was said on the documentary I watched. I know that I am not one who goes into shock because I have been the only one of my group to react in different situations (confronting a thief, being surrounded in my car by gang members in a big city, saving several drowning victims). Everyone else was in shock. I have the shock reaction after everything is over with, then my legs go weak and I hyperventilate and I just can't think straight.

I have never, however, been a witness to this type of extreme violence against a poor defenseless child. I would hope my instincts would cause me to rush in like I have in other situations.

When people go into shock, they can't help it. They really have nothing to be ashamed of...it's just their make-up.

 

[Floh]

I’m in the car, kids, and I’m not getting out! I am feeling some collective disappointment because these bystanders opted not to act with violence. I don’t have it in me to hurt someone. I have no kung fu skills. I wouldn’t even begin to respond in a physical fashion, and I will not question anyone’s judgment under these circumstances. If someone is so sick as to stop a vehicle in the middle of a road way, remove a child from a carseat and stomp him to death, how exactly should one physically prevent him from this barbaric act in the span of three to four minutes? This is my version: “Excuse me sir, sir, um, could you, um, like move your car over? I’m late for everything. Tough day?”

If I somehow magically grew balls, from a litigious standpoint I would also be fearful of paying for years of this dude’s feeding tube should my mighty arm somehow inflict a hearty head injury. With the uninsured population (myself included at times), I don’t want to tangle with anyone for any reason. I don’t leave the country. I don’t drive on holidays. I’m monogamous. I don’t go to clubs. I’m home by midnight. No strangers. Safety first.

It seems as though reasonable efforts were made by people to report, distract, and intervene. Multiple calls to authorities were made to provide information, and everyone stayed on the scene to offer help. I feel for them. And, I feel badly about the commentary on their behavior. This wasn’t their thing, and they were just doing day-to-day life. In a few weeks, we won't remember these few minutes.

bertajo, your post may have turned my mindset on it's head. :waitasec:

 

[MagicRose99]

Experts defend inaction
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/06/17/BA2G11ARO9.DTL

Bystanders are justifiably scared and confused in such situations, the experts said Wednesday, and they lack the experience needed to respond with force. They can also be mesmerized by shock.
John Conaty, a veteran homicide detective and former patrol officer in Pittsburg, said that in interviews of witnesses to violence, "the common thing you hear is, 'I was frozen in fear. I just couldn't take action.' "
Conaty questioned whether the witnesses had even been capable of stopping Aguiar. "If they were physically able, you have to take a look at whether they were psychologically prepared to intervene," he said.
"I would not condemn these people," said John Darley, a professor of psychology and public affairs at Princeton University who has studied how bystanders react in emergency situations. "Ordinary people aren't going to tackle a psychotic. (much more at link)

:clap::clap::clap:

Anyone can sit here and say that they would jump in... but to be honest, you don't know what you would do in that situation. It's definitely a "had to be there" moment.

No one is to blame for what happened to this little boy EXCEPT the monster who did this to him... may he rot in hell

 

[Clearly Confused]

:clap::clap::clap:

Anyone can sit here and say that they would jump in... but to be honest, you don't know what you would do in that situation. It's definitely a "had to be there" moment.

No one is to blame for what happened to this little boy EXCEPT the monster who did this to him... may he rot in hell

Even though I'd like to think I would do something I do agree that it is a "had to be there" moment. I do not blame the people at the scene but just have a hard time understanding trying anything and everything to get that baby.

 

[believe09]

Words did not stop this man from continuing to do the unthinkable-people are being conditioned to use words, not actions these days-we are not trained with what to do when confronted by someone who has turned his child into an unrecognizable mess...with enthusiasm mind you. Imagine the Twilight-Zone horror of coming upon that scene.

 

[MeoW333]

It could take 7 people working together to take down a psychotic man physically. Being in that state of mind; yet he kept pushing away the few that tried to stop him and went back to beating the baby. If anyone had a weapon, makeshift or otherwise, maybe they could have knocked him out with a blow to the head. Lawsuits aside, it would obviously have been in defense of the baby; after all, an officer shot him. It sounds like nothing short of knocking Aguiar unconscious would have stopped him from beating on the child. Aside from possibly grabbing the child away, which then he would give chase.
There had to have been crowbars in people's trunks, rocks, sticks nearby that someone could have grabbed to try and take him down. The 2 men in their 20's if they worked together could have figured it out, one would hope.
It doesn't change the fact that the baby is dead.
It's interesting to see how witnesses react or rather don't take action. Not a very good thing; as if i ever needed help, i would hope someone would jump in and help me.

 

[pixies]

The cop is a HERO, in my book.
Thank you GOD, this policeman had the b*lls to do the right thing and blow this evil monster out of the world.

Earlier in this thread, someone said this made them but a metal baseball bat in her car "just in case". I think that is what most people should have with them anyway if they are not carrying guns (legally, of course )

Never be without something to protect yourself with.

I also believe this baby was dead long before the freak started beating him in the street. Nothing could have saved his life.

 

[miimaa]

It's awful that nobody helped that little boy. I just cannot believe no one did anything to stop the dad. Horrible what he did to his son but I cannot fathom how people watched without reacting. I have seen bar fights - between grown men - where others jump right in and they are all out the door in a minute. No one paused to think "Hmmm.... should I or shouldn't I? I could get sued so I better not." I say bu!!$hit!! That little boy needed someone to be a hero and all around were cowards.

 

[SewingDeb]

In that documentary I mentioned earlier about people being in shock, it was recommended that one should plan what you would do in certain situations before the occasion arises. You are less likely to stand petrified if you have a plan ahead of time.

Hopefully, none of us will ever encounter a murder in progress but this thread has helped us think about what we might do. That would help us not to go into shock.

These poor bystanders were not prepared for the shock of what they were seeing. I'm sure they had never thought about it. They can't be faulted for their reactions.

 

[IdahoMom]

It's awful that nobody helped that little boy. I just cannot believe no one did anything to stop the dad. Horrible what he did to his son but I cannot fathom how people watched without reacting. I have seen bar fights - between grown men - where others jump right in and they are all out the door in a minute. No one paused to think "Hmmm.... should I or shouldn't I? I could get sued so I better not." I say bu!!$hit!! That little boy needed someone to be a hero and all around were cowards.

People did try! Calling the witnesses cowards is a bit harsh, imo.

 

[Ntegrity]

I agree.

 

[SewingDeb]

Same here.

 

[mrsjonnob]

I was thinking about this case as I was in my car yesterday, wondering what I would do if I saw something like that, or if I saw someone like that poor older man who was run over and left in the street while on-lookers stood there and did nothing (well they did call 911).

It is really too bad that none of the people who stopped to help had a gun.

 

[Ciara]

This is one of the worst stories I have ever read here, I dont think I'll ever forget it. I think I would have driven my car straight into that man but there is no way I could have sat and waited for someone to do something. I can't imagine the pain that child must have endured being beaten and kicked and stomped. I just have no mercy for anyone who inflicts pain on children.....no mercy whatsoever:banghead:

 

[miimaa]

People did try! Calling the witnesses cowards is a bit harsh, imo.

If that were your child or grandchild would you feel the same? The 'witnesses' tried talking to him? They told him to stop? That's not a whole lot of trying in my book.

Stop making excuses for their lack of action. Remember 911 and the guys that rushed the terrorists on the plane headed for DC??? They all died when the plane crashed but the men were heroes and stopped others from being hurt.

The 'witnesses' were cowards. We have read how many stories of people standing up for kids being slapped by moms in Walmart/Kmart/grocery store? Sure it's easier to stand up to a woman rather than a crazy man but I think several men could have taken the dad down.

 

[miimaa]

If someone is beating the crap out of me on the street I sure hope someone would step in and help me. Calling 911 isn't enough because I'll be dead by the time they get there. I bet you'd hope someone would step up for you too.