CA - Sergio Aguiar, 2, beaten to death, Turlock, 14 June 2008

[miimaa]

I think the majority here have said "I'd like to think I would have...." Until we are faced with taht situation we clearly can't know for sure what we would have or could have done. Like SewingDeb I can say that I would have gone full force to try and rip this child from harms way.

I have been in a situation where a neighbor was beating their child so badly that I could hear the actual punching through my closed windows with my AC running. I called police, went over to the neighbors house and pounded on the door until they answered, pushed my way into their home and took their child out the front door with me. I took the kid into my home and locked all the doors till the cops got there. when police arrived the parents were on my porch saying that I had no right to take their kid...the cops told them...she had every right to secure the safety of the child, YOU sir had no right to abuse her. The child is living (key word living) safely in another state with her grand parents. The parents are both in prison for various Violence related offenses and won't be getting out for at least 10 years.

I am just saying...if given a situation like that again, I know how I would react.

OMG that must have been scary! Thank God that you had the courage to step in and rescue that little girl. Bless you.

 

[Kellee]

Woulda, Coulda, Shoulda..........

It all boils down to the fact that none of us KNOW exactly how we would react to a situation as horrible as the one those witnesses faced that night!

We like to think that we would be braver, more in control, more willing to sacrifice ourselves for that poor child, but we don't KNOW.

Reports have come out that there was blood in the cab of the truck, that the baby never made a sound while the witnesses were there, that the baby was literally coming out of its clothing and was unrecognizable. I doubt, IMO, that the baby was alive before people arrived on the scene.

I am NOT going to sit back and pass judgement on people who witnessed this atrocious crime against an innocent, defenseless child. From reports, they are so traumatized by what they witnessed that they are already seeking psychological counseling and are not willing to discuss the horrific details.

None of us truly knows what exactly happened that night, what exactly those people saw, what exactly was said or done. We don't know!

All we know is that a beautiful, innocent babe was taken from this world in the most hideous way imaginable by a man who was so out of control, for whatever reason, and so intent on his task that he beat his own son to an unrecognizable pulp despite pleas, physical interference, helicopters, and police presence.

I am sickened by this crime. I've thought about it constantly since I first read about it. I will never forget the horror I felt even reading about it!!!! I can not imagine what I would feel had I actually had to witness part of it!

I'm glad the is dead! I'd pin a medal on the chest of the officer who shot him in the f'ing head myself! But I will NOT sit in the comfort of my own home and pass judgement on people who did everything they felt they could, given the circumstances. They have enough to live with.

 

[Clearly Confused]

What I think is great is that most of us here will probably react differently (and heroically) if this ever happened to us. This is why I role-play being kidnapped with the kids. Practice makes perfect and if you practice your response enough, it will be natural. If we think about this type of situation (Turlock), the option to react differently if it comes our way, God forbid, will be natural too. Hopefully our reasoning will kick in as well to make sure it's safe for us to interact.

I try to think of every possible way to talk to my son about kidnappings and I have never thought of role playing. Thank you!

 

[Ntegrity]

The 'witnesses' were cowards.

Unless you were there, it's impossible to know whether you would've acted differently. This happened at 10:15 p.m. on a desolate 2-lane road. The man was saying and doing things that didn't make sense so he was clearly off his rocker. I'm not sure I'd have done anymore than the others did. Sadly, the baby was most likely long gone by the time the first witness arrived.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well its easy for us to be sitting in the comfort of our own rooms and spouting off about what we'd do. However, being there and talking about it are two different things.

Personally, I think a shovel to the back of the man's head would have worked wonders, but I wasn't there.

Ditto!

If I was there. I wouldn't have felt like I could have done anything.

I had no weapon of any kind in my car...after reading this....I did put an aluminum baseball bat in mine. Just in case!

 

[philamena]

In that documentary I mentioned earlier about people being in shock, it was recommended that one should plan what you would do in certain situations before the occasion arises. You are less likely to stand petrified if you have a plan ahead of time.

Hopefully, none of us will ever encounter a murder in progress but this thread has helped us think about what we might do. That would help us not to go into shock.

These poor bystanders were not prepared for the shock of what they were seeing. I'm sure they had never thought about it. They can't be faulted for their reactions.

Sewing Deb,
That's a great idea. Being prepared is definitely the best thing we can do. Going on possible situations is wise.

SD..
You always write the nicest post.

 

[justche]

If that were your child or grandchild would you feel the same? The 'witnesses' tried talking to him? They told him to stop? That's not a whole lot of trying in my book.

Stop making excuses for their lack of action. Remember 911 and the guys that rushed the terrorists on the plane headed for DC??? They all died when the plane crashed but the men were heroes and stopped others from being hurt.

The 'witnesses' were cowards. We have read how many stories of people standing up for kids being slapped by moms in Walmart/Kmart/grocery store? Sure it's easier to stand up to a woman rather than a crazy man but I think several men could have taken the dad down.

I think you're wrong - very wrong about motivation. I've lived in Turlock, (and Ceres, and Modesto) about 8 years total. The area that the witnesses were - at that time of night meant they were going home. they are ranchers, and farmers - firefighters and who knows what else.

When a guy is kicking a lifeless baby - and still manages to shove off a firefighter like he's nothing but a bug - there's obviously something very wrong. They tried to stop him from mutilating the child further - but no one wanted to become the new object of rage.

6 minutes is a long time if you're just sitting listening to the clock tick. But 6 minutes is NOTHING for how quickly that helicopter got there - especially in light of cell phone coverage dropping. The way it was handled, and the excellent shot by the Modesto Police Officer could very well have kept it from being "5 innocent people killed trying to stop man from beating toddler."

Think of the damage he could have done to several people if he had a tire iron he took from someone. We have to change the gun laws back to reasonable here - but outside of that, I think everything that could have been done was done.

 

[Littledeer]

:clap::clap:

I think you're wrong - very wrong about motivation. I've lived in Turlock, (and Ceres, and Modesto) about 8 years total. The area that the witnesses were - at that time of night meant they were going home. they are ranchers, and farmers - firefighters and who knows what else.

When a guy is kicking a lifeless baby - and still manages to shove off a firefighter like he's nothing but a bug - there's obviously something very wrong. They tried to stop him from mutilating the child further - but no one wanted to become the new object of rage.

6 minutes is a long time if you're just sitting listening to the clock tick. But 6 minutes is NOTHING for how quickly that helicopter got there - especially in light of cell phone coverage dropping. The way it was handled, and the excellent shot by the Modesto Police Officer could very well have kept it from being "5 innocent people killed trying to stop man from beating toddler."

Think of the damage he could have done to several people if he had a tire iron he took from someone. We have to change the gun laws back to reasonable here - but outside of that, I think everything that could have been done was done.

 

[Floh]

I think the majority here have said "I'd like to think I would have...." Until we are faced with taht situation we clearly can't know for sure what we would have or could have done. Like SewingDeb I can say that I would have gone full force to try and rip this child from harms way.

I have been in a situation where a neighbor was beating their child so badly that I could hear the actual punching through my closed windows with my AC running. I called police, went over to the neighbors house and pounded on the door until they answered, pushed my way into their home and took their child out the front door with me. I took the kid into my home and locked all the doors till the cops got there. when police arrived the parents were on my porch saying that I had no right to take their kid...the cops told them...she had every right to secure the safety of the child, YOU sir had no right to abuse her. The child is living (key word living) safely in another state with her grand parents. The parents are both in prison for various Violence related offenses and won't be getting out for at least 10 years.

I am just saying...if given a situation like that again, I know how I would react.

:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Floh]

It was funny!!!! My son turned around and said what the "blank" are you doing here? Then I turned around and said to my husband what the "blank" are YOU doing?? LOL We all just laughed. My son is bigger than I am, but my husband's a 250 pound bodybuilder. So, while I'd like to think my son could have handled it all by himself, I'm thinking drunk cowboy looked back and saw my hubby and just left.

You did the right thing! :clap::clap::clap:

you also did the right thing by marrying a 250 pound bodybuilder! :woohoo:

 

[Kiki]

I don't think anyone should judge the witnesses. They will be busy doing that themselves - probably for the rest of their lives. I would love to think that if I was in that situation I would have tried to save the baby but it's also possible I would have been frozen by shock and disbelief. The entrance to my bedroom is only a metre from our back door. Last year I heard someone break in through the back door and they were began pounding on my bedroom door. The door is a sliding door with a chair against the runners to keep it from opening. (I lock my cat Rusty in my room at night or he gets into fights and the chair stops him from being able to open the sliding door). While this person was pounding on my door and the door was swaying forwards off its hinges I was petrified. Rather than trying to escape through the other door or look for a weapon to defend myself I stayed frozen to the spot. :blushing::doh: The person breaking in turned out to be my idiot 23 year old nephew. :furious: Well when someone doesn't hear you knocking of course the next logical thing is to break in to their house! When I saw it was him I think he heard language he had never heard before and certainly didn't think me capable of. My point to this is it's so easy to just freeze. Later you can think of so many could haves and should haves and feel like such a complete idiot that you didn't do such and such but when you're confronted with an unexpected danger you never really know how you will act. I feel so bad for that little boy and his family and also for the witnesses and the horror they will all be going through.

 

[therese]

Hi I'm a lurker. I just want to add my 2 cents.
I am a seasoned critical care nurse. I have been in many situations with crazy patients withdrawing off drugs or having psychotic episodes or what not. Even with training these are very scary and traumatic episodes usually involving at least 6 staff members. (most of the time more) .I have been kicked clear across a room, Ive seen security and other nurses getting punched in the face and never mind the flying spit! We just had a pastor have her face broken up when a distraught family member picked up a chair in rage and threw it at her face. People in these kinds of rages are very very scary. I cant even imagine coming upon a scene like this. He was a crazed angry man. Some of them might have just been frozen in trauma. You cant blame the bystanders. You cant blame human reaction to traumatic events. I am telling you taking down a 250 pound 6 foot drug crazed psycho with 4 nurses a 4 security guards is insane ,traumatic, dangerous and someone always always always gets hurt!!!!! And we are trained staff. I have taken care of prisoners who have had psychotic breaks in prison. They come to us shackled and with 2-3 prison officers. They usually have been taking down by 10 officers in riot gear and peppered sprayed to the point that we as nurses are ill from the spray just listening to heart sounds or putting on blood pressure cuffs or even just walking in the room. My point is these people that are in these crazed states are very very scary . I understand he was killing his child and that enrages me. But honestly I don't think if I was there with an elderly couple and 2- 20 something year old kids all in shock if I would have tried either. I really don't know what I would do.
This is such a sad heartbreaking case. I am sure all of the bystanders are beating them selves with could of ,would of, should of. never mind having this event just play over and over again in there minds. They did what they could with what they had. They called 911, one kid rushed at him. I can just see in my head that kid trying to get at the guy or the baby alone with a nut bag in psychosis. Of course he would fail.The whole situation is just horrible even for us reading about it it is traumatic.
Just adding a little of my experience and perspective here thanks

 

[SewingDeb]

BakerPrune, you are a hero in my eyes!

 

[SewingDeb]

Kiki, your nephew is lucky he didn't get shot!

 

[Floh]

Hi I'm a lurker. I just want to add my 2 cents.
I am a seasoned critical care nurse. I have been in many situations with crazy patients withdrawing off drugs or having psychotic episodes or what not. Even with training these are very scary and traumatic episodes usually involving at least 6 staff members. (most of the time more) .I have been kicked clear across a room, Ive seen security and other nurses getting punched in the face and never mind the flying spit! We just had a pastor have her face broken up when a distraught family member picked up a chair in rage and threw it at her face. People in these kinds of rages are very very scary. I cant even imagine coming upon a scene like this. He was a crazed angry man. Some of them might have just been frozen in trauma. You cant blame the bystanders. You cant blame human reaction to traumatic events. I am telling you taking down a 250 pound 6 foot drug crazed psycho with 4 nurses a 4 security guards is insane ,traumatic, dangerous and someone always always always gets hurt!!!!! And we are trained staff. I have taken care of prisoners who have had psychotic breaks in prison. They come to us shackled and with 2-3 prison officers. They usually have been taking down by 10 officers in riot gear and peppered sprayed to the point that we as nurses are ill from the spray just listening to heart sounds or putting on blood pressure cuffs or even just walking in the room. My point is these people that are in these crazed states are very very scary . I understand he was killing his child and that enrages me. But honestly I don't think if I was there with an elderly couple and 2- 20 something year old kids all in shock if I would have tried either. I really don't know what I would do.
This is such a sad heartbreaking case. I am sure all of the bystanders are beating them selves with could of ,would of, should of. never mind having this event just play over and over again in there minds. They did what they could with what they had. They called 911, one kid rushed at him. I can just see in my head that kid trying to get at the guy or the baby alone with a nut bag in psychosis. Of course he would fail.The whole situation is just horrible even for us reading about it it is traumatic.
Just adding a little of my experience and perspective here thanks

Thank you very much for your post. i'm thinking on. i'm listening,

 

[cathieq]

http://www.modbee.com/breakingnews/story/334452.html

...Blunt force trauma to the head and face resulting in multiple skull fractures contributed to the death of the 2-year-old boy killed by his father on a dark country road Saturday...

...The baby's name, authorities said, was Axel...

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Ditto!

If I was there. I wouldn't have felt like I could have done anything.

I had no weapon of any kind in my car...after reading this....I did put an aluminum baseball bat in mine. Just in case!

I usually carry a weapon with me, but I'd hate to have to use it. I've shot enough times that I'm pretty sure that I'd blow the crap out of anything coming after me or my kids.

 

[kline]

Ive got to stop reading this thead.Its just one of those stories...
Frankly the fact that im relishing the image of this monster being interupted in the act of brutalizing that poor baby by the sudden appearence of a hole in his forhead then droping like a sack of bricks is somewhat disturbing to me.
Oh well.
I hope he woke up in Hell before he hit the ground.
I dont care what his little malfunction was.

 

[Kiki]

Kiki, your nephew is lucky he didn't get shot!

Lucky for Darren I didn't have anything more lethal than a water pistol. Having a gun in the house is quite uncommon in Australia.

Poor little Axel. Rest in peace angel. :angel:

 

[dingo]

Lucky for Darren I didn't have anything more lethal than a water pistol. Having a gun in the house is quite uncommon in Australia.

Poor little Axel. Rest in peace angel. :angel:

You are right there Kiki....The Port Arthur episode took the right to bear arms away from us....my hubby has a shooters liscence but the rules about the storing of the guns make it impossible to use the guns as a form of self defence.