Found Alive CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, 2 November 2016 - #22

[Deleted member 39678]

One more thing. I am a longtime runner. I've run through 4 pregnancies, 2 marriages, and several presidencies, haha. I have never ever ever laid my phone on the ground and curled my headphones on top of them during a run for any reason whatsoever. Not unless I was home and/or done for the time being with my run. I haven't done it to tie my shoes, to re-do my ponytail, to help someone carry something, to go the bathroom, to eat, drink, or take a Tylenol - not for any reason I can think of.

Instead, I either have an armband or waistband that holds my phone, or I would slide it into my shoe or sock, my waistband, a pocket, or my bra (screen facing away from the sweat in each case of course). I have never seen another runner put his or her phone on the ground either (unless they were sitting next to it, in which case yes).

And, although I sometimes carry my phone in my hand while running (short distances), I think most people don't. Usually you already have it secured somehow, although she might not have, of course.

As for the headphones, they would be dangling around my neck even if I had to unplug them to put my phone in my shoe. The only way I would take the headphones off and coil them up to lay them on top of my phone would be if I were through running for the day or if I were taking a significant break. It's just too much trouble to take them off and put them back on for a short break, especially if you have long hair (which I do).

Again, all of this is my opinion and experience only.

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So you're saying that in normal circumstances you wouldn't place your phone on the ground and curl your headphones on top.

Makes sense to me.

 

[gitana1]

Lots of easier victims, lots of easier ways...

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...d-study-prosecutions-2015oct31-htmlstory.html

I haven't heard of a case where a suburban mom was kidnapped into sex trafficking. Perhaps it does happen occasionally, but statistically it's very unlikely.

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Yeah. Even by two women "trying to break into the business."

It's undocumented immigrants, prostitutes and poor/troubled kids who are victims of sex trafficking.

The scenario doesnt make sense. Every story of trafficking I've ever read involves rape immediately within hours or a day. If they learned quickly that she was a high profile case, they would've either killed her or gotten rid of her more quickly. Not kept her for three weeks. Especially after she aupposedly beat one of their heads in. They didn't kill her. Just gave her a shower and politely took her home. After one of them killed the other.

For me the only plausible stranger kidnapping scenario would involve someone slightly in unbalanced like the kook in the Huskins case- someone wacky who thinks they're big-time criminals but are just crazy.

Druggies aren’t out jogging. No go.

Unless she wasn't jogging.

The thing is, there are a myriad of scenarios that could involve SP ending up held against her will and tormented that don't involve stranger snatching her off the street for some shadowy sex-trafficking network she was never made part of for three weeks.

 

[Traymar]

So you're saying that in normal circumstances you wouldn't place your phone on the ground and curl your headphones on top.

Makes sense to me.

Yes, exactly. In my opinion, just my gut feeling, she placed them there to come back to later. OR someone else placed them there to be found.

Had they been on the grass in a park-like area I would think she might have sat down for a rest or a visit -- and been interrupted (taken)at that point. But on the side of the road, I just don't think so (too easy to accidentally step on your phone while you're tending to something else too).

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[Lilibet]

LE doesn’t seem to believe that there is evidence that Sherri was sex trafficked.

[FONT=&quot]Jackson says they also have ruled out sex trafficking as a motive for her abduction. “Just on the facts that we know it doesn’t seem to be a sex trafficking or a sexual abduction in nature, and that is what we are trying to figure out: What was the purpose?” he says. “Why was she released? It is hard to keep somebody in captivity for 22 days. Why would somebody go to that length? Those are all types of questions we all have.”

[/FONT]http://people.com/crime/sherri-papini-dna-male-alleged-abduction/

 

[rosesfromangels]

Yeah. Even by two women "trying to break into the business."

It's undocumented immigrants, prostitutes and poor/troubled kids who are victims of sex trafficking.

The scenario doesnt make sense. Every story of trafficking I've ever read involves rape immediately within hours or a day. If they learned quickly that she was a high profile case, they would've either killed her or gotten rid of her more quickly. Not kept her for three weeks. Especially after she aupposedly beat one of their heads in. They didn't kill her. Just gave her a shower and politely took her home. After one of them killed the other.

For me the only plausible stranger kidnapping scenario would involve someone slightly in unbalanced like the kook in the Huskins case- someone wacky who thinks they're big-time criminals but are just crazy.



Unless she wasn't jogging.

The thing is, there are a myriad of scenarios that could involve SP ending up held against her will and tormented that don't involve stranger snatching her off the street for some shadowy sex-trafficking network she was never made part of for three weeks.

So true...but the branding is what keep leading me back to trafficking. Maybe these chumps decided they were going to attempt a ransom. For all we know, maybe they got one.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

One of the biggest inconsistency that I see in this case is the alleged cut on Sherri's foot.
Why was it not visible in photos taken after she was found?

She told detectives she cut her foot in the fight, but investigators didn’t find evidence of the cut. Jackson said that’s not necessarily a sign that Papini is making up that part of the story – or any other parts of her account. “Obviously, in any investigation, especially something of this nature where there’s trauma and it’s a prolonged thing, it’s not abnormal to have inconsistencies,” Jackson said.

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article180824671.html#storylink=cpy
​

Is it possible that Sherri mistook some kind of pain in her foot as being a cut?

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article180824671.html

 

[Steleheart]

If she was a victim of trafficking they decided they didn't want, they would have just killed her and disposed of her.

Sex trafficking victims are not just swiped off the street in suburban neighborhoods like this, while being allowed to roll their earbuds up neatly around their phones and place them on the grass.

I know, that was a weak theory.

But those ear buds - people keep wondering why so neat.

KP said his road is one mile long and SP was using the 2 mile round trip to train for an upcoming 5K run. This round trip would be about 10 - 15 min? (I'm not a runner.)
Is it logical when she got to the mailboxes she stopped to tie / adjust her shoes? Kneeling down putting the phone down momentarily I can see why it might be neat. Being so preoccupied she maybe didn't notice her attackers approaching. Perhaps they were watching, waiting for her.

 

[gitana1]

Wow. It is actually quite disheartening to realize the lengths to which some people feel they must go in order to protect an image of themselves or to preserve a relationship with the people they should feel safest with in the world. That they don't feel safe or secure enough to turn to those people and admit they screwed up, did a terrible thing, let them down, etc. is really heartbreaking.

I do believe that it is possible that SP (or anyone) could be desperate enough to resort to self harm even to this degree. I think it's statistically unlikely, but I do not know SP and cannot say whether I believe it likely or unlikely of her.

I do wonder whether LE will or would clear SP as they have cleared others (KP, MM). They have said they believe her, but have they said that she did not and/or could not have caused these injuries herself? Because I, too, believe she has suffered, that she is or was tortured, and that she has experienced profound pain. But did some other someone assault and bind her? That, I do not know.

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Yeah. It is statistically rare. At least to that extent. But when you start getting into all the malingering cases, munchausen cases, people who harm themselves or their kids for attention, it gets much more common.

Remember Sandra Cantu's murderer? My spouse went to high school with her. Said she was a sweet, religious girl. Unassuming but with a strange, over loud laugh.

Well holy hell. After graduation she went on to cause fires for attention, cried rape a couple times (leading to charges against one guy), drugged a man with Xanax and then drugged, raped and killed little Sandra, all for attention.

The parental kidnapping case involving Maddie Jones and William Gouchenour is another one. Just insane. That family was considered a perfect Mormon family of good values and kind hearts. Heavily involved in the church community. High standing. But they have left a trail of bizarre stories and lies. Pretended one daughter had cancer, for six years. (She didn't). Accused several young girls of harassment and assault against Maddie and actually took them to court. Never happened (cases thrown out). Made insane, improbable accusations about things that were impossible and grandiose claims about themselves. (I'm a lawyer. I assisted on several surgeries. I found a cure for cancer. Etc. Etc.).

We see sad sick people who do crazy things to themselves and others all the time. Some of the elements of those types or those cases seem present here. The past calls to police. Possible histrionic and personality disordered behavior. A Pinterest account and staged photos that evidence a life in which appearance is everything all the time. Accounts of things that don't make sense and seem improbable. (Like the beating up my captor's face and they cut my hair into a bob to "shame me" and they branded me to "send a message" and none of it relates or adds up to anything. Or the overdramatic acting of the husband who we know passed a lie detector test).

There's a whiff of dysfunction here. What it caused to happen to this poor soul or if it caused what happened to her, is unknown to me.

 

[Steleheart]

One of the biggest inconsistency that I see in this case is the alleged cut on Sherri's foot.
Why was it not visible in photos taken after she was found?



Is it possible that Sherri mistook some kind of pain in her foot as being a cut?

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article180824671.html

Well it happens to me but it is more related to arthritis. Perhaps a runner not yet in shape might experience a pain - similar to shin splints?

 

[Traymar]

Yeah. It is statistically rare. At least to that extent. But when you start getting into all the malingering cases, munchausen cases, people who harm themselves or their kids for attention, it gets much more common.

Remember Sandra Cantu's murderer? My spouse went to high school with her. Said she was a sweet, religious girl. Unassuming but with a strange, over loud laugh.

Well holy hell. After graduation she went on to cause fires for attention, cried rape a couple times (leading to charges against one guy), drugged a man with Xanax and then drugged, raped and killed little Sandra, all for attention.

The parental kidnapping case involving Maddie Jones and William
Goucenour is another one. Just insane. That family was considered a perfect Mormon family of good values and kind hearts. Heavily involved in the church community. High standing. But they have left a trail of bizarre stories and lies. Pretended one daughter had cancer, for six years. (She didn't). Accused several young girls of harassment and assault against Maddie and actually took them to court. Never happened (cases thrown out). Made insane, improbable accusations about things that were impossible and grandiose claims about themselves. (I'm a lawyer. I assisted on several surgeries. I found a cure for cancer. Etc. Etc.).

We see sad sick people who do crazy things to themselves and other all the time. Some of the elements of those types or those cases seem present here. The past calls to police. Possible histrionic and personality disordered behavior. A Pinterest account and staged photos that evidence a life in
which appearance is everything all the time. Accounts of ****s that don't make sense and seem improbable. (Like the beating up my captor's face and they cut my hair into a bob to "shame me" and they branded me to "send a message" and none of it relates or adds up to anything. The overdramatic acting of the husband (who we know passed a lie detector test).

There's a whiff of dysfunction here. What it caused to happen to this poor soul of if it caused what happened to her, is unknown to me.

Completely agree with everything you said.

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[Traymar]

Is it possible that Sherri mistook some kind of pain in her foot as being a cut?

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article180824671.html

RSBM
This hadn't occured to me but it's entirely possible - good thinking!

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[gitana1]

Apparently there was a local charity marathon that was coming up. She planned to enter the marathon. So she began running again.

I am not sure why that is so suspicious.

Its a coincidence. It wouldn't be suspicious at all but for all the other odd things about this case. It's the cumulative nature that makes any of this seem off.

 

[Steleheart]

I don't feel that Tricia is waiving the WS policy of being 100% victim friendly for this thread.

She's allowing members to post about discrepancies that the victim has made to LE that we know is fact via MSM.

I agree and at least since this new thread opened I am not seeing the ridicule. The previous thread was filled with downright cruelty and such a lack of compassion - yes there are questions and discrepancies but what if she was actually taken against her will and brutalized? What if her mind wont let her make sense of it? Can that kind of trauma cause her memory to block out the truth?

 

[FlossyMay]

Did KP take the polygraph before SP was found?

 

[bluesneakers]

Well it happens to me but it is more related to arthritis. Perhaps a runner not yet in shape might experience a pain - similar to shin splints?

Shin splints don't feel like a cut.

But maybe her foot slid along something sharp and it felt like a cut so she assumed it was?

 

[Rayemonde]

Sure, SP may have been mistaken about cutting her foot. But my question is, why would LE choose to release that information, when they know that people will seize it as a sign that SP invented or embellished her story? They chose to release that one piece of information - that SP said she cut her foot and yet the photos showed no cut. Why choose to release that information, if not to cast doubt on the story?

And why would they release the information about the Michigan man and yet refuse to say whether the relationship was romantic or not, knowing the sort of speculation that that would cause? If the text messages they found showed no evidence of a romantic relationship, why wouldn't they say so to the public?

 

[gitana1]

I think, very early on, SP indicated through KP that she never saw their whole faces, so two women pulling up to ask for assistance wouldn’t make sense.

Yup.

It's things like this that have people wondering. Why can't Sherri give a better description of the people who took her? Or of vehicles used to transport her?

The only thing that I can come up with is PTSD of some sort that is blocking her memory.

JMO

No. Trauma can cause "overemembering." But it certainly doesn't cause blocked memories as people used to try to claim in the 80's. The main reason PTSD is such a problem in people's lives is because they cant stop it. Or the memories.

 

[ZoriahNZ]

Only just now catching up on the news of the past week. Wow, interesting reveals by LE. I suspect they are playing a crafty game right now.

The latest released detailed sketches of the two latina abductors look eerily similar to these two who were in the news some weeks prior to Sherri's disappearance.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3801687/2-sought-kidnapping-4-held-California-pot-farm.html

Coincidence? Note the distinctive shape of the young woman's jaw, and the wrinkles in the mid brow of the older woman. Then look at the sketch again.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41759519

Both cases mention being taken along a "winding road" too.

So many discrepancies and things that don't add up IMHO.

KP's 911 call seems rehearsed to me. Too concerned with crime scene details. I just don't understand how he could have made all the assumptions he did, with just a missing wife, unpicked up children and phone on the side of the road. He has some very specific suspicions.

Also, did anyone else find the story of SP slamming one kidnapper's head against the toilet weirdly reminiscent of the (unconfirmed) Skinheadz account of how she fought back against her latina aggressors, slamming the head of one of them against the bleacers? Didn't she also injure or leg or foot in that account? She's weak, emaciated and 87 pounds and shackled and yet manages to get ta brutal drop on her attackers. What happened next? A few bruises? The cut foot has been proven false.

Did she get a good look at them, pull off their mask? If it was the young woman, why not yank off her earring? Did she see identifiable things in the bathroom that could help find where she was being held?

Why does law enforcement, to this day, keep acting like there's no imminent danger to other women in the Redding area? Since day one, they've acted like it's some isolated incident, no cause for alarm. If they really do believe every aspect of Sherri Papini's story, then why the heck aren't they being more aggressive in their search for these two dangerous women?

Add to that the release of the info that male DNA was found on her clothes, female DNA on her body. The strategic release of info about the Michigan man, too. LE is definitely on to something, but what...

I read somewhere that she had three contacts on her phone which had female names but were in fact men. Is this just an unsubstantiated rumor or backed up by MSM?

ETA: It would appear that much of this was covered in a previous thread. My apologies, still catching up.

 

[gitana1]

A few articles with good summaries of the major inconsistencies, oddities, and open questions regarding her disappearance.

http://nypost.com/2017/10/25/cops-say-details-in-abducted-joggers-story-dont-add-up/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2294597/sherri-papini-abduction-child-sex-traffickers-latest/

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article180824671.html

So... here's my list...

1. Unknown male DNA found on her clothing, although she said she was kidnapped and held by two women.

2. A fight with one of the kidnappers, in which she suffered a cut foot. No cut or scar present when found.

3. Inability to describe kidnappers. Unlikelihood of kidnappers covering faces whole time.

4. Cut hair, presumably to cause humiliation, but only to shoulder length.

5. The mysterious man from Michigan, along with the (imo) very clear implication that the meet up planned was of the extramarital variety. Leads to questions regarding the possibility of other male acquaintances.

6. Lack of motive. No sexual assault. Not trafficking. Injuries, but comparatively limited in scope (released from hospital very quickly).

7. Phone and headphones neatly placed by road.

8. Inability to identify SUV/van.

9. Oddness of husband promising children she would be home for thanksgiving.

10. A jogger, but neighbors never saw her jogging.

11. Assorted questionable incidents in her past. (Which could be a whole list themselves)

12. The whole mystery donor and self styled kidnapping expert. (Again, could be a whole list)

13. The "perfect wife, perfect mother," along with the perfect social media pictures of the family, and the husband's unusual comments in post-disappearance interview (to the effect that he was repulsed by her injuries)

14. The similarities to the abduction of a high school classmate (who was later found murdered).

15. The early statement from someone in the local sheriff's office that a hoax could not be ruled out, which LE later denied.

16. The statistical rarity of two women kidnapping someone.

17. The weird similarity between the sketch of the suspects and the cowboy-style picture of the Papini family.




That's all I can remember offhand. Sad thing is, I know I'm forgetting a lot.

I'm reporting my post so mods can review and make sure I'm within guidelines.



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I didn't know about the husband expressing any kind of revulsion about her injuries. Weird. I also didn't know that something similar happened to a classmate? Could you elaborate?

 

[katydid23]

Lots of easier victims, lots of easier ways...

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...d-study-prosecutions-2015oct31-htmlstory.html

I haven't heard of a case where a suburban mom was kidnapped into sex trafficking. Perhaps it does happen occasionally, but statistically it's very unlikely.

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Of course there are easier victims. I agree.

But women have been kidnapped off the streets before. It is pretty rare but it does happen.

It rarely happens because as you said, there are easier ways to get victims. And those victims, runaways, homeless transients, drug addicts, etc, don't have people searching for them nor have media reports of their absence.

But there are opportunity kidnappings---where someone sees someone they 'want' and have the perfect opportunity to take them.

It is rare, but it does happen.