Found Alive CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, 2 November 2016 - #23

[natsound]

http://fox40.com/2016/11/29/husband...-mom-found-with-bag-over-head-chained-beaten/
"We are a very private family [who] do not use social media outlets prior to this grotesque tragedy."

Is it just me or does the bolded comment above seem a bit strange?

Notice in his statement, KP says she had a bag over her head, which is the same bag she used to flag down motorists.

Where's the bag in the surveillance video?

Why is KP adding circumstantial details that don't appear to be true?

I would really like to know the answer to this question. Allison Sutton says she was waving something (she says a piece of cloth that looked like a shirt), KP says she was waving a bag, but there's no bag in the surveillance video. As panic-stricken as she was in the video, she would't have the presence of mind to shove it in her clothes for the run. She would have no reason to do that, anyway, unless she planned to keep it for evidence. Did she? LE hasn't mentioned it.

What kind of bag was it? Plastic? Paper? Garbage?

 

[Hope4More]

Its 100 k plus 50k. And I don't think it's enough to turn in your mother. But it's certainly a lot of money for most people in America.

Regardless, it all plays into the narrative of the nasty illegals abducting cute, white soccer moms off the street and the "ministry" of this guy from this major, controversial church that's taken over the city, being the one to crack the case and rescue her, by appealing to the greed and poverty of the "illegals" families or associates.

It is a big coincidence that she was released on the day after the reward was issued.

What he doesn't understand is that undocumented persons would be terrified to come forward to claim a reward or to have any kind of dealings with law enforcement at all.

I agree - $150,000 is to most folks a very large amount of money. Plenty of tips for plenty of crimes have been called in for a whole lot less than that.

I don't agree that this case feeds a narrative about white soccer moms being randomly victimized by "nasty illegals." A large part of many folks' doubt & disbelief about her story is precisely that her narrative doesn't square with just about anyone's idea about how kidnappings or sex trafficking, etc. play out or who is targeted.

I don't think it was a coincidence either that SP was returned so speedily after the ransom offer turned into a reward and was increased. I know LE has said there was no connection, but I don't believe them, frankly. I think they were justifiably concerned and pissed about others playing cowboy/inserting themselves into an active & potentially life threatening situation. Acknowledging that the reward money may have favorably tipped that particular situation would have sent the wrong message.

Who knows,but my guess remains that her takers were rank amateurs, in way over their heads & had no clue how to extricate themselves from a personal payback of whatever sort becoming national news. A reward that size ensured folks weren't going to lose interest, and that the odds of being spotted and turned in were greatly increased.

(Just a guess & just an opinion).

 

[Cannonball3804]

Notice in his statement, KP says she had a bag over her head, which is the same bag she used to flag down motorists.

Where's the bag in the surveillance video?

Why is KP adding circumstantial details that don't appear to be true?

I would really like to know the answer to this question. Allison Sutton says she was waving something (she says a piece of cloth that looked like a shirt), KP says she was waving a bag, but there's no bag in the surveillance video. As panic-stricken as she was in the video, she would't have the presence of mind to shove it in her clothes for the run. She would have no reason to do that, anyway, unless she planned to keep it for evidence. Did she? LE hasn't mentioned it.

What kind of bag was it? Plastic? Paper? Garbage?

AS never stopped so I discount everything she said, including that SP had long hair.

I don't think there is any way we can tell from that grainy video if she still has the bag. Sweatpants often have pockets so she could have stuffed a thin bag in her pocket. Or it could be clutched in her hand. Or she could have left it at the drop off point and retrieved it after going to the church. Or she could have discarded it at drop-off but found something else on the side of the road to wave at motorists.

 

[Dushi]

LE has not given any detail about the bag
LE only found DNA on SP's body and clothing
The bag was not mentioned
Perhaps the bag was left behind , but I expect LE would have searched for it
Never know what evidence it might hold

All JMO

 

[natsound]

AS never stopped so I discount everything she said, including that SP had long hair.

I don't think there is any way we can tell from that grainy video if she still has the bag. Sweatpants often have pockets so she could have stuffed a thin bag in her pocket. Or it could be clutched in her hand. Or she could have left it at the drop off point and retrieved it after going to the church. Or she could have discarded it at drop-off but found something else on the side of the road to wave at motorists.

KP said the bag she took off her head was the same bag she waved at motorists. Where's the bag?

I have a hard time believing LE wouldn't have mentioned a bag, saved by SP as evidence for DNA testing. They mentioned DNA found on her clothes and body, which makes her story suspicious, but didn't mention a bag shoved in KP's pocket, which would help corroborate her story. That's likely because there is no bag.

If Allison's account has any accuracy whatsoever, SP probably found a scrap of something on the interstate. Who knows. It's yet another detail that we can pick apart, but we need more information from LE to make sense of it, and they don't see fit to clear it up.

 

[Inthedetails]

I just don't understand why this is still being discussed. Thankfully, the formerly missing woman is home with her family.

It's an open case.

 

[Hippiemomof5]

I've always read that it was Find my iPhone. I can use Find my iPhone from my iPhone, iPad or Macbook. I don't need to be at my computer.

Oh, you are correct. I was thinking if *I lost my phone, I’d need to be at the computer (or iPad) but I just opened Find my iPhone up on my phone and it finds my phone for me after I log in with my iTunes ID. I logged out and entered my daughters ID and it found her phone as well. So he’d need to know her ID and password, which isn’t out of the ordinary I suppose.

 

[Cannonball3804]

KP said the bag she took off her head was the same bag she waved at motorists. Where's the bag?

I have a hard time believing LE wouldn't have mentioned a bag, saved by SP as evidence for DNA testing. They mentioned DNA found on her clothes and body, which makes her story suspicious, but didn't mention a bag shoved in KP's pocket, which would help corroborate her story. That's likely because there is no bag.

If Allison's account has any accuracy whatsoever, SP probably found a scrap of something on the interstate. Who knows. It's yet another detail that we can pick apart, but we need more information from LE to make sense of it, and they don't see fit to clear it up.

KP reporting secondhand things that SP told him, and ABC then editing it for length... the potential for inaccuracy and omission is high.

We know that ABC cut KP saying that he tried calling and texting SP's phone. What else did they cut?

And one reason LE might have a bag but not mention it - so that if they do find a suspect and make an arrest, they can use the bag for corroboration.

It's really hard to know whether the bag is a crucial piece of the case or whether it's a non-factor or non-existent.

 

[Steleheart]

AS never stopped so I discount everything she said, including that SP had long hair.

I don't think there is any way we can tell from that grainy video if she still has the bag. Sweatpants often have pockets so she could have stuffed a thin bag in her pocket. Or it could be clutched in her hand. Or she could have left it at the drop off point and retrieved it after going to the church. Or she could have discarded it at drop-off but found something else on the side of the road to wave at motorists.

BBM;

Of course I'm still not sure what to make of certain details but I do put some value on witnesses not involved in the actual kidnapping.

http://people.com/crime/woman-who-c...s-papini-was-looking-panicked-and-frightened/

Unsure of where she was, Sutton drove a few miles and then pulled over to call 911.

Sutton tells PEOPLE, “I definitely remembered blonde hair…. As far as the length of it, my brain could have filled in the detail by looking at photos her. It was fast — I just caught a glimpse of her as I drove by — but I have this memory of a panicked look on her face. And now reading what her husband said I feel horrible. I didn’t see the chains, I just saw somebody who really needed help.”

So a couple miles up the road AS couldn't look back to get more details. I think she explains very well about her report of the long hair. IMO she was positive it was SP but her mind went haywire on her - easy to understand.
so "waving a piece of fabric that looked like a shirt". I can easily see that it could be a shirt. I know of another case where the kidnapper put a shirt over the victim's head. She was tied so she couldn't pull it down - like through the neck hole. What would I do if If I had that on my head and heard the car drive off - one hand and free and 2 legs free - yank that thing down and look.
JMO but KP is and "over talker" in my opinion. I have had friends like him. "Get to the point!" I think they add details or embellish due to insecurity.
She wiggled one hand free? I don't see that. she reported that she was anchored to something in the car and the perp cut something to let her go. It could have been her other hand. Perhaps she didn't give certain details and his mind went to supposition.
Sleuths actually do that a lot but but we bounce it off other people. To me, "over talkers" just spew.

JMO

 

[DakotaMayi]

Oh, you are correct. I was thinking if *I lost my phone, I’d need to be at the computer (or iPad) but I just opened Find my iPhone up on my phone and it finds my phone for me after I log in with my iTunes ID. I logged out and entered my daughters ID and it found her phone as well. So he’d need to know her ID and password, which isn’t out of the ordinary I suppose.

Unless they both shared an iTunes / iCloud account. Not that that would be ideal.

 

[natsound]

KP reporting secondhand things that SP told him, and ABC then editing it for length... the potential for inaccuracy and omission is high.

We know that ABC cut KP saying that he tried calling and texting SP's phone. What else did they cut?

And one reason LE might have a bag but not mention it - so that if they do find a suspect and make an arrest, they can use the bag for corroboration.

It's really hard to know whether the bag is a crucial piece of the case or whether it's a non-factor or non-existent.

I guess we're all looking at this a little differently.

I remain unconvinced KP called SP's phone before using the app. Guttman's tweet that "of course he did" is flimsy IMO.

LE could mention the bag. It's not going to hurt their case at this juncture, but it would corroborate SP's story.

I know, we continue to beat a dead horse! (I hope it's not dead)

 

[kkdj]

LE has not given any detail about the bag
LE only found DNA on SP's body and clothing
The bag was not mentioned
Perhaps the bag was left behind , but I expect LE would have searched for it
Never know what evidence it might hold

All JMO

Speaking of the bag.....did anyone see a bag in the SP video at the church? I suppose she could have left it by the roadside where she ws dropped off and retrieved it when she went back?

 

[DakotaMayi]

Oh, you are correct. I was thinking if *I lost my phone, I’d need to be at the computer (or iPad) but I just opened Find my iPhone up on my phone and it finds my phone for me after I log in with my iTunes ID. I logged out and entered my daughters ID and it found her phone as well. So he’d need to know her ID and password, which isn’t out of the ordinary I suppose.

Quoting this again because I just realized what you are getting at, Hippiemom.

Yes, if you were trying to find your own phone you would need another device which you could log onto your account. Not necessarily a computer though. If i lose my iPhone I use my iPad to find it and I can those to find my Macbook (we like Apple lol) too so it's not really clear what KP was using. Unless it was just his own phone logged into her account.

 

[gitana1]

Call relative to see if they were out, hoping to be home before he was?
Call a friend of hers, maybe impromptu plans and she forgot to call or leave note?

To me, to almost immediately call "find my phone" after phone wasnt answered is a bit much, but maybe its the techie in him? Maybe the dramatic in him.

I have trouble with the extreme attachment so many have to their cell phones anyway, so might be seeing this all sideways, lol

If he didn't text or call her first my theory is he suspected she was up to something and was trying to catch her.

CG enters the scene a day or two prior to November 6th - which is 4 days after Sherri goes missing. November 6th is the date that the first letter was sent. That letter does not get published. In actuality, it likely went straight to LE shortly after it was read by the recipient.

Yes. A letter was sent to the media - I believe the Redding Record Searchlight. This letter announced the anonymous donor and all the other things. Almost two weeks later a slightly changed version of the letter appeared on a web site and then was published in the media once media was pointed at it. I believe that second letter came out over a week later. The first letter wasn't known about until after the second letter came out.

Do you have cites for all that? I want to know when he appeared. He made comments on another site indicating he was "out of town" for the first two weeks of her disappearance.

Did he really use Find my iPhone or was it Find Friends? My husband, oldest daughter and I all share location with each other in the Find Friends app. I will occasionally use it to see where my husband is because he doesn’t read or send texts while driving. I can see if he’s 5 or 30 minutes from home. If either of them were not answering calls, I’d absolutely use that because it’s nothing more than opening an app. I don’t entirely understand how Find my iPhone works but I know it’s more in depth than the Find Friends app and I do believe you have to be at the computer with iTunes open.

It's pretty much the same thing.

Why not? I'd agree to be deported for $150K. Those who want to collect it would find a way.

I own a business in USA that pays good amounts of Federal taxes and brings internationl money to USA, and I had to spend days in Embassy queues to get my visa to enter your beautiful country (I am European). I never understood what Americans' love is with illegals. But it pisses me to no end considering the amount of time I spend to be there legally.

We don't have a "love" for "illegals". Many people here believe they are a bunch of criminals stealing our jobs. There is a lot of debate about them
and a lot of anger and suspicion. But the reality is we need mass amounts of people willing to do back breaking labor for $10.00 an hour. Are you willing to do that?

Both my parents came here legally from Europe as well. But we don't have an issue with hardworking undocumented persons. They're desperate to survive economically and our system virtually invites them here to provide cheap labor for factories, farms, service, etc. Cheap, scared labor that won't assert any rights, complain they're being mistreated by the bosses, etc., because they're terrified of being deported and separated from their families.

You may not have a problem being deported for $150k. If it meant you're deported to a third world hell hole and either separated from yor kids or you have to bring them there, maybe you wouldn't be so eager. Also, they might fear they wouldn't be eligible for the reward and would instead be shoved into a federal facility for months or years while deportation proceedings drag on, which is what happens to many. Including little babies.

I just don't understand why this is still being discussed. Thankfully, the formerly missing woman is home with her family.

Don't you think this is a fascinating mystery? I do.

Notice in his statement, KP says she had a bag over her head, which is the same bag she used to flag down motorists.

Where's the bag in the surveillance video?

Why is KP adding circumstantial details that don't appear to be true?

I would really like to know the answer to this question. Allison Sutton says she was waving something (she says a piece of cloth that looked like a shirt), KP says she was waving a bag, but there's no bag in the surveillance video. As panic-stricken as she was in the video, she would't have the presence of mind to shove it in her clothes for the run. She would have no reason to do that, anyway, unless she planned to keep it for evidence. Did she? LE hasn't mentioned it.

What kind of bag was it? Plastic? Paper? Garbage?

If anyone can see anything more than a light colored figure running and walking around, they've got special eyes that no one else has. IMO. I think it would be impossible to tell what she's holding, if anything.

KP said the bag she took off her head was the same bag she waved at motorists. Where's the bag?

I have a hard time believing LE wouldn't have mentioned a bag, saved by SP as evidence for DNA testing. They mentioned DNA found on her clothes and body, which makes her story suspicious, but didn't mention a bag shoved in KP's pocket, which would help corroborate her story. That's likely because there is no bag.

If Allison's account has any accuracy whatsoever, SP probably found a scrap of something on the interstate. Who knows. It's yet another detail that we can pick apart, but we need more information from LE to make sense of it, and they don't see fit to clear it up.

And if there was a bag there should be mad amounts of her own DNA inside it from crying, nose running, saliva. If there's not evidence of those things, hmm.

 

[Cannonball3804]

I guess we're all looking at this a little differently.

I remain unconvinced KP called SP's phone before using the app. Guttman's tweet that "of course he did" is flimsy IMO.

LE could mention the bag. It's not going to hurt their case at this juncture, but it would corroborate SP's story.

I know, we continue to beat a dead horse! (I hope it's not dead)

I think you're mixing up a couple of Matt Gutman's tweets. I'm looking at them right now - I can't post on my phone but if you Google "Gutman Papini call text" it's the first search result.

In one tweet Gutman says "of course I asked."

But the other tweet, Gutman says about KP, "he did text and call, actually." To me, that's unequivocal and not flimsy at all. While it doesn't prove that KP actually did the calling and texting, it proves that he told Gutman he did.

 

[cattlekate]

And, just an observation about those hose clamps: I've actually used them in the past for fastening things together (not body parts). It takes a bit of maneuvering and some leverage to actually tighten them. I've been trying to imagine a scenario where a captive would hold still as the captor guided a screwdriver into the slot, grasped the loose end of the clamp, then proceeded to turn the screwdriver blade in the correct direction (righty tighty, lefty loosey). IIRC, it takes a few "turns" to actually tighten the clamp just a little bit. Certainly not an efficient or quick way to inflict pain.

Maybe it says something about her tormentors. . . inept, broke, and patient? Or, something else?

(Snipped by me for brevity)

I think this is the most important aspect about hose clamps being on wrists and ankles. They are difficult to tighten while on a stationary irrigation pipe or duct. And it takes a lot of turns to tighten just a bit. Meanwhile, the screwdriver slips and stabs the hand holding the clamp. I just don’t see how it can be done with a squirming victim.

BTW - I made the mistake of googling “hose clamps and bondage” instead of “hose clamps and pain compliance.” I think my iPad got malware after that.

 

[msphilosopher]

I agree - $150,000 is to most folks a very large amount of money. Plenty of tips for plenty of crimes have been called in for a whole lot less than that.

I don't agree that this case feeds a narrative about white soccer moms being randomly victimized by "nasty illegals." A large part of many folks' doubt & disbelief about her story is precisely that her narrative doesn't square with just about anyone's idea about how kidnappings or sex trafficking, etc. play out or who is targeted.

I don't think it was a coincidence either that SP was returned so speedily after the ransom offer turned into a reward and was increased. I know LE has said there was no connection, but I don't believe them, frankly. I think they were justifiably concerned and pissed about others playing cowboy/inserting themselves into an active & potentially life threatening situation. Acknowledging that the reward money may have favorably tipped that particular situation would have sent the wrong message.

Who knows,but my guess remains that her takers were rank amateurs, in way over their heads & had no clue how to extricate themselves from a personal payback of whatever sort becoming national news. A reward that size ensured folks weren't going to lose interest, and that the odds of being spotted and turned in were greatly increased.

(Just a guess & just an opinion).

I agree with you. I've always believed the reward aided in her release.

Her story / experience doesn't add up and is very usual however, there were a lot of unusual things that happened prior to her release as well.

I tend to think that SP was targeted and not a random abduction.

All JMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

(Snipped by me for brevity)

I think this is the most important aspect about hose clamps being on wrists and ankles. They are difficult to tighten while on a stationary irrigation pipe or duct. And it takes a lot of turns to tighten just a bit. Meanwhile, the screwdriver slips and stabs the hand holding the clamp. I just don’t see how it can be done with a squirming victim.

BTW - I made the mistake of googling “hose clamps and bondage” instead of “hose clamps and pain compliance.” I think my iPad got malware after that.

I rarely use a screwdriver to tighten or loosen hose clamps because of the slippage you describe.

Most hose clamps have a hex head along with the screw driver slot. I use either a nut driver or a socket. No slippage when using those. You could even use power tools like electric screwdrivers or drills when using a socket . JMO

 

[Cannonball3804]

Maybe this was discussed before and I just missed it or forgot it.

KRCR did an interview with KP during the disappearance. In the video clip, at the :13 mark while they're talking about SP having a pink running top, they show something pink and black on the ground with an evidence marker #3 beside it. What is that?

http://www.krcrtv.com/news/local/sh...issing-wife-ask-for-her-safe-return/145248010

 

[natsound]

I think you're mixing up a couple of Matt Gutman's tweets. I'm looking at them right now - I can't post on my phone but if you Google "Gutman Papini call text" it's the first search result.

In one tweet Gutman says "of course I asked."

But the other tweet, Gutman says about KP, "he did text and call, actually." To me, that's unequivocal and not flimsy at all. While it doesn't prove that KP actually did the calling and texting, it proves that he told Gutman he did.

"Of course I asked" - that's the tweet I was referring to. :rocker: