Found Alive CA - Sherri Papini, 34, Redding, 2 November 2016 - #23

[Hope4More]

BBM
If one of my kids or my spouse, were missing, I'd be immediately talking to LE, to assist in finding them. The instant that they were calling me in for "questioning"? I would be consulting a lawyer, or if in the middle of the conversation, (questioning), it turned toward me, that's when I'd utter those words, I want an attorney. Period.

Yep. I agree completely. In our system we are supposed to be presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty. It's just plain wrong for anyone to be presumed guilty because they've exercised their constitutional right to an attorney to help protect themselves in what for most of us would be the entirely new & extremely stressful/distressing situation of being interrogated by LE.

 

[Hope4More]

I strongly lean towards 1, 2 and 3 being extremely possible
Can't help but think she knows far more than she is telling

JMO

If...IF..IF she placed the blame on 2 Latinas when she knew that was not who was to blame, then my sympathy for her is greatly diminished. In the abstract, though, not knowing what really happened, I can't imagine how horribly isolating and scary it would be for her to have actually been victimized, but to feel for whatever reason that she can't turn to LE to bring her captors to justice, nor to be able to tell the truth about what happened to anyone outside her immediate family, if even them.

If there's any truth to the speculation that KP is controlling, can you imagine how completely subjugated & isolated SP would now feel?

 

[Dushi]

I feel sympathy that SP has and probably still is suffering, no matter what the true story may be. I don't believe there is anything random about this. If abducted,she was targeted, or she was targeted because of someone close to her, IMO. She knows why. She can't or won't tell. If she planned this, she knows why. If she was fearful that it would happen again, I can't imagine the family living in the same house, neighborhood
If there was a debt, maybe its been paid, one way or another. If it was a message, maybe it has been sent.
Still not clear if any money changed hands here. Everything feels wrong
At this point, I don't think there will ever be a resolution.

 

[Lilibet]

She let’s say could have a friend from high school who grows marijuana indoors and comes to eureka area every few months when it is done to trim it for a little extra money.. also the att store in arcata isn’t a att store just a guy who fixes iPhones and is a certified dealer. I don’t know anyone who’s gone their for anything other then getting their screen fixed.

Thanks for the clarification about the Arcata AT&T store. I was just going by google before I found the article specifying a Eureka store. All we know is that she worked for AT&T so it’s likely it was the Eureka AT&T store she visited. I don’t think anything about her reason for coming to Humboldt would have been mentioned in that article if the reason had been trimming, rather than working for a mainstream company.

Although anything is possible in terms of side jobs in Humboldt, we don’t have any reason to think she was trimming other than it being Humboldt, so that’s really off the table. I was joking about foggy Eureka vs Garberville. I used to live in SoHum.

Welcome to WS, by the way, if you haven’t been already. :seeya:

 

[gitana1]

I advocate asking for an attorney immediately upon LE saying they want to ask questions, no matter the circumstances. Perhaps all the more so in cases where family members are automatically persons of interest.

Maybe that's because I've simply read about/watched too many cases in which LE went after the innocent, based on little more than gut instinct and/or an unshakable belief that someone wasn't acting "right." Personally, I'd rather risk looking guilty to LE/the public than to expose myself to potentially irreversible legal jeopardy.

---

About SP's "brand." Since I think (I think I think, that is..) that SP was taken & held by person (s) for a personal reason, AND that her captors (s) were paralyzed by indecision how to extricate themselves from a situation they hadn't anticipated (intense local then national interest & large rewards being offered), AND that the "brand" was seemingly unreadable, perhaps even no more than random markings, what makes sense as a possibility IMO is that her captors were listening to the news, heard the speculation by many that SP has been kidnapped by sex traffickers, looked up or knew that traffickers often branded their victims, and "branded" SP to make it look like that was why she was kidnapped.

---According to KP (LE did not support or refute), SP's "brand" had raised scabs. If so, the (cuts?) weren't inflicted within a few days of her being found...

---If the "branding" was done to suggest sex trafficking, maybe SP's captors also deliberately chose a random pattern to make sure they didn't accidentally copy the brand of folks they wouldn't want to antagonize.

BBM
If one of my kids or my spouse, were missing, I'd be immediately talking to LE, to assist in finding them. The instant that they were calling me in for "questioning"? I would be consulting a lawyer, or if in the middle of the conversation, (questioning), it turned toward me, that's when I'd utter those words, I want an attorney. Period.

I know what people advocate or what they think they'd do. But the patterns of human behavior show that really only guilty people clam up and ask for an attorney. Even if and when questions get hard as they will and must at the outset.

When your kid goes missing or your spouse they will first ask basic info and then will hone in one you. Your whereabouts. Your feelings. Do you know where your loved one is. Did you hurt them.

In those first few days a truly panicked and desperate parent or spouse isn't calmly ending the conversation and asking for an attorney. I don't care what anyone thinks they would or thinks they should do. That's your child or spouse. No one who is innocent gives a damn about their own skin at a time like that. They will answer any question, take lie detector tests, go through interrogation, be accused. A truly innocent person won't care. That's just human behavior. It has nothing to do with what's smart or wise. Innocent and desperate people will walk through fire to rescue their loved one.

John Walsh and Marc Klaas have attested to that over and over again:

"If someone refuses a polygraph, then they don’t really care or love that person.” John Walsh
http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2011/04/24/john-walsh-talks-about-holly-bobo-case/

 

[Hope4More]

I know what people advocate or what they think they'd do. But the patterns of human behavior show that really only guilty people clam up and ask for an attorney. Even if and when questions get hard as they will and must at the outset.

When your kid goes missing or your spouse they will first ask basic info and then will hone in one you. Your whereabouts. Your feelings. Do you know where your loved one is. Did you hurt them.

In those first few days a truly panicked and desperate parent or spouse isn't calmly ending the conversation and asking for an attorney. I don't care what anyone thinks they would or thinks they should do. That's your child or spouse. No one who is innocent gives a damn about their own skin at a time like that. They will answer any question, take lie detector tests, go through interrogation, be accused. A truly innocent person won't care. That's just human behavior. It has nothing to do with what's smart or wise. Innocent and desperate people will walk through fire to rescue their loved one.

John Walsh and Marc Klaas have attested to that over and over again:

"If someone refuses a polygraph, then they don’t really care or love that person.” John Walsh
http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2011/04/24/john-walsh-talks-about-holly-bobo-case/

There are exceptions to that, Gitana, and I know I'd be one of them. As I've said, I am too aware of the possibility of innocents being accused, too familiar with the law (I'm not an attorney, but my husband is), and too passionate about my constitutional rights to ever willingly cede them.

I do understand what you are saying about the initial panic in the kind of situation in which one might be faced with suspicion by LE. I had a very small taste of that years ago when my darling (then 2 year old) son wandered off while my husband and I were in deep conversation. We didn't know he was gone for about 10-15 minutes, and when we realized he wasn't in the house I went into full blown, useless to anyone panic. I'm known for keeping calm in emergencies, but I couldn't think straight, was reduced to standing outside our house screaming and crying and unable to answer questions from neighbors that might have helped find my son more quickly than we did.

For sure, if LE had been called (which I was on the verge of doing), I would have tried to answer whatever immediate questions they had- when did I last see him, what was he wearing, was there anyplace he'd wandered off to before, etc.

If, God forbid, though, he hadn't been found, and LE 's questions had begun to focus on me, I have no doubt but that I would have called an attorney, ASAP.

I don't see it as an either/or situation- either a person protects themselves or they help LE. I'd definitely instruct my attorney to tell LE I wanted to help/cooperate in every way I could, but that I was also mindful of my own legal jeopardy.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

If I hired an attorney in a missing person case and they advised me to not help LE in any way I would fire that attorney and get another one. JMO

 

[gitana1]

There are exceptions to that, Gitana, and I know I'd be one of them. As I've said, I am too aware of the possibility of innocents being accused, too familiar with the law (I'm not an attorney, but my husband is), and too passionate about my constitutional rights to ever willingly cede them.

I do understand what you are saying about the initial panic in the kind of situation in which one might be faced with suspicion by LE. I had a very small taste of that years ago when my darling (then 2 year old) son wandered off while my husband and I were in deep conversation. We didn't know he was gone for about 10-15 minutes, and when we realized he wasn't in the house I went into full blown, useless to anyone panic. I'm known for keeping calm in emergencies, but I couldn't think straight, was reduced to standing outside our house screaming and crying and unable to answer questions from neighbors that might have helped find my son more quickly than we did.

For sure, if LE had been called (which I was on the verge of doing), I would have tried to answer whatever immediate questions they had- when did I last see him, what was he wearing, was there anyplace he'd wandered off to before, etc.

If, God forbid, though, he hadn't been found, and LE 's questions had begun to focus on me, I have no doubt but that I would have called an attorney, ASAP.

I don't see it as an either/or situation- either a person protects themselves or they help LE. I'd definitely instruct my attorney to tell LE I wanted to help/cooperate in every way I could, but that I was also mindful of my own legal jeopardy.

So you would actually care about being arrested if your child went missing? You think you'd be calmly considering the need to protect YOURSELF? That panic you felt that day doesn't end. You felt it for 10-15 minutes. You actually think you'd be able to revert to calm after a few hours or a day or so?

You would have tunnel vision. A desperate fear coursing through your body
giving you a sick electric energy for days. No sleep. No hunger. Just a terrified clinging to sanity and hope. Using every ounce of energy trying to survive those first hours and get your kid back.

Then it becomes a grim struggle to hold on and desperation increases along with intense bargaining. You will do anything to find your child. Anything. The world is narrowed and nothing matters anymore. Still no sleep. Still can't eat. No one knows how you are surviving. But you do, desperate, aching and ready to bargain with the devil.

No one who actually loves their child or spouse would stop talking and get a
lawyer. Not until months have passed by of intense focus on them.

Logic and reason have no place in these cases. I don't care how much you know or what you've read. That's your child. You'd do anything if you love him. Period. It's human behavior. There are no exceptions. The only people who don't cooperate are those who are guilty or those who don't really care.

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, there is a difference between assisting LE and being “questioned.” I think just the presence of an attorney during “questioning” would prevent LE from using certain tactics. Over the years, we have been frustrated by people who have refused to answer questions and/or “lawyered up” (the Ramseys for example). But even if one is guilty of the crime, it is up to LE to prove it. You are not obligated to help them. Silence definitely pays off or delays arrest in cases I’m aware of currently. It may imply guilt, but implication and conviction are miles apart if you’re guilty.
JMO

They say that there is an estimated 4% of folks, who are sitting on death row, who are innocent. In the grand scheme of things that number doesn't sound very large, but it would definitely suck to be in that number.

 

[rsd1200]

If...IF..IF she placed the blame on 2 Latinas when she knew that was not who was to blame, then my sympathy for her is greatly diminished. In the abstract, though, not knowing what really happened, I can't imagine how horribly isolating and scary it would be for her to have actually been victimized, but to feel for whatever reason that she can't turn to LE to bring her captors to justice, nor to be able to tell the truth about what happened to anyone outside her immediate family, if even them.

If there's any truth to the speculation that KP is controlling, can you imagine how completely subjugated & isolated SP would now feel?

I don't really get the vibe, that KP is controlling. I get a couple other vibes, but, at this point, I should probably keep them on this side of the keyboard.

 

[Hope4More]

So you would actually care about being arrested if your child went missing? You think you'd be calmly considering the need to protect YOURSELF? That panic you felt that day doesn't end. You felt it for 10-15 minutes. You actually think you'd be able to revert to calm after a few hours or a day or so?

You would have tunnel vision. A desperate fear coursing through your body
giving you a sick electric energy for days. No sleep. No hunger. Just a terrified clinging to sanity and hope. Using every ounce of energy trying to survive those first hours and get your kid back.

Then it becomes a grim struggle to hold on and desperation increases along with intense bargaining. You will do anything to find your child. Anything. The world is narrowed and nothing matters anymore. Still no sleep. Still can't eat. No one knows how you are surviving. But you do, desperate, aching and ready to bargain with the devil.

No one who actually loves their child or spouse would stop talking and get a
lawyer. Not until months have passed by of intense focus on them.

Logic and reason have no place in these cases. I don't care how much you know or what you've read. That's your child. You'd do anything if you love him. Period. It's human behavior. There are no exceptions. The only people who don't cooperate are those who are guilty or those who don't really care.

Yes, I would care very much if my child was missing and the police arrested me. Talk about what is a natural human response! I would be distressed beyond words that LE was focused on the wrong person, and possibly overlooking clues/evidence that could mean the difference between life or death for my missing child.

I try not to imagine the actual horror of ANY of the criminal cases I read about or have followed, especially those involving missing/violated/murdered children, which for the most part I avoid altogether- too painful.

But yes, as a mother who would literally & willingly die for my son if it came to that, I can readily accept that I'd almost certainly feel the agony you describe if...

Maybe we are simply talking past one another, though? I didn't say I would stop talking to LE, nor that I'd stop cooperating. It seems a false (and dangerous) choice to assert that one can either cooperate with LE OR one can protect oneself.

One can do both. One says to LE- I need desperately to help you find my child, but since it looks like you are turning your focus on me, I also need to protect myself, for my sake,and for my child's sake, because your focus on me might be wasting irreplaceable time . Lawyer. Now. Please.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

The hiring of a lawyer in a missing person case is a conundrum.

If a family member is innocent and LE believes they are guilty how does not getting a lawyer get LE looking in the right direction?

If the family member gets a lawyer because LE is wrongly looking at them as a suspect it makes them look guilty.

It seems to me if LE is looking at you as a suspect when you're innocent it's a no win situation. JMO.

 

[Hope4More]

The hiring of a lawyer in a missing person case is a conundrum.

If a family member is innocent and LE believes they are guilty how does not getting a lawyer get LE looking in the right direction?

If the family member gets a lawyer because LE is wrongly looking at them as a suspect it makes them look guilty.

It seems to me if LE is looking at you as a suspect when you're innocent it's a no win situation. JMO.

I don't see it as a conundrum. LE are legally and morally obligated to respect the constitutional rights of every person they interact with, including those they consider suspects. Innocent until proven guilty is one of our core rights, as is asking for an attorney to help navigate oneself through what are for most folks entirely unfamiliar legal encounters that carry significant risk.

The legal system is supposed to be subservient to our rights, not the other way around.

 

[Dushi]

The hiring of a lawyer in a missing person case is a conundrum.

If a family member is innocent and LE believes they are guilty how does not getting a lawyer get LE looking in the right direction?

If the family member gets a lawyer because LE is wrongly looking at them as a suspect it makes them look guilty.

It seems to me if LE is looking at you as a suspect when you're innocent it's a no win situation. JMO.

Completely agree.. if LE was looking at me as a suspect.. in a heartbeat

 

[ReadySet]

If I knew someone with a missing or murdered loved one, I would advocate that they give LE all the information they could think of, as often as they could, whenever they thought of something else, even in the middle of the night or weeks later.
Immediately asking for an attorney is a way of putting yourself first. You have the legal right to do so.But would you, if your loved one were missing? Rights are not mandates.
Wanting to tell LE everything you can think of, in hopes it would help find the person or solve the case, would be the first concern of a desperate person.
Exposing myself to legal jeopardy wouldn't even be on my mind, I would be so desperate help LE.




RSBM

I advocate asking for an attorney immediately upon LE saying they want to ask questions, no matter the circumstances. Perhaps all the more so in cases where family members are automatically persons of interest.

Maybe that's because I've simply read about/watched too many cases in which LE went after the innocent, based on little more than gut instinct and/or an unshakable belief that someone wasn't acting "right." Personally, I'd rather risk looking guilty to LE/the public than to expose myself to potentially irreversible legal jeopardy.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Yes, I would care very much if my child was missing and the police arrested me. Talk about what is a natural human response! I would be distressed beyond words that LE was focused on the wrong person, and possibly overlooking clues/evidence that could mean the difference between life or death for my missing child.

I try not to imagine the actual horror of ANY of the criminal cases I read about or have followed, especially those involving missing/violated/murdered children, which for the most part I avoid altogether- too painful.

But yes, as a mother who would literally & willingly die for my son if it came to that, I can readily accept that I'd almost certainly feel the agony you describe if...

Maybe we are simply talking past one another, though? I didn't say I would stop talking to LE, nor that I'd stop cooperating. It seems a false (and dangerous) choice to assert that one can either cooperate with LE OR one can protect oneself.

One can do both. One says to LE- I need desperately to help you find my child, but since it looks like you are turning your focus on me, I also need to protect myself, for my sake,and for my child's sake, because your focus on me might be wasting irreplaceable time . Lawyer. Now. Please.

Problem is that you can't really do both. The first thing an attorney will tell you is NOT to talk to LE.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't see it as a conundrum. LE are legally and morally obligated to respect the constitutional rights of every person they interact with, including those they consider suspects. Innocent until proven guilty is one of our core rights, as is asking for an attorney to help navigate oneself through what are for most folks entirely unfamiliar legal encounters that carry significant risk.

The legal system is supposed to be subservient to our rights, not the other way around.

If I was innocent in the disappearance of a family member and LE was incorrectly looking at me as a suspect I would definitely get a lawyer to help them get back on putting all of their resources in looking for the missing person and not looking at me.

I wouldn't care if it made me look guilty or not because finding the missing loved one would be paramount in my thoughts. JMO

 

[ReadySet]

This is what I was trying to say but you said it better.

I know what people advocate or what they think they'd do. But the patterns of human behavior show that really only guilty people clam up and ask for an attorney. Even if and when questions get hard as they will and must at the outset.

When your kid goes missing or your spouse they will first ask basic info and then will hone in one you. Your whereabouts. Your feelings. Do you know where your loved one is. Did you hurt them.

In those first few days a truly panicked and desperate parent or spouse isn't calmly ending the conversation and asking for an attorney. I don't care what anyone thinks they would or thinks they should do. That's your child or spouse. No one who is innocent gives a damn about their own skin at a time like that. They will answer any question, take lie detector tests, go through interrogation, be accused. A truly innocent person won't care. That's just human behavior. It has nothing to do with what's smart or wise. Innocent and desperate people will walk through fire to rescue their loved one.

John Walsh and Marc Klaas have attested to that over and over again:

"If someone refuses a polygraph, then they don’t really care or love that person.” John Walsh
http://www.missingpersonsofamerica.com/2011/04/24/john-walsh-talks-about-holly-bobo-case/

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Problem is that you can't really do both. The first thing an attorney will tell you is NOT to talk to LE.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

You could disregard the advice, fire the attorney and hire another one. If the lawyer only tells you to not talk to police and say's you owe me $5000 and that's it I would recommend getting a different lawyer.

JMO

 

[rsd1200]

So you would actually care about being arrested if your child went missing? You think you'd be calmly considering the need to protect YOURSELF? That panic you felt that day doesn't end. You felt it for 10-15 minutes. You actually think you'd be able to revert to calm after a few hours or a day or so?

You would have tunnel vision. A desperate fear coursing through your body
giving you a sick electric energy for days. No sleep. No hunger. Just a terrified clinging to sanity and hope. Using every ounce of energy trying to survive those first hours and get your kid back.

Then it becomes a grim struggle to hold on and desperation increases along with intense bargaining. You will do anything to find your child. Anything. The world is narrowed and nothing matters anymore. Still no sleep. Still can't eat. No one knows how you are surviving. But you do, desperate, aching and ready to bargain with the devil.

No one who actually loves their child or spouse would stop talking and get a
lawyer. Not until months have passed by of intense focus on them.

Logic and reason have no place in these cases. I don't care how much you know or what you've read. That's your child. You'd do anything if you love him. Period. It's human behavior. There are no exceptions. The only people who don't cooperate are those who are guilty or those who don't really care.

Have you ever been in the position that you've had to deal with LE over a child who has disappeared? I have. I've found that, for the the large majority, they were rather blasé, and uncaring about my child or helping us find our way to the station in another frickin' state. If the fingers start getting pointed at me, then yes, I'd have a lawyer with me, when I help them find my child. I'll be of no use to my missing kid, nor my others who are not, if I'm locked up b/c of LE's errors (and, many times, tunnel vision).