Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #18 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[GrainneDhu]

I have a procedural question. So LE tests the bag for fingerprints, likely tested the phone too (same set of fingerprints found on two items), runs them through the database and gets a match for ATG. Before the very first time they speak to him, would they have ALL the necessary warrants on them to search the car, the trailer, etc? ie they just show up without warning and say, 'Open your trunk, we have a warrant? Hand over your cell phone.'

Because if ATG is used to getting away with stuff and maybe done similar things before he may have had no clue they were coming for him. He could have cleaned up the car, but a taser or knife could have been in the glove compartment for his next attempt.

Just saying the element of surprise would have been crucial in gathering the most evidence. Would LE have just gone to talk to him without all the documents in hand?

I think it all depends and the general public won't find out until the trial.

Going in with warrants immediately would lower the risk of evidence tampering.

However, going to talk to him in a sort of buddy-buddy style, "we know this is ridiculous but your name came up so we have to jump through these hoops" type of manner could get him pinned to answers that could help get him convicted. Assume he's going to make up a story, let him tell it and then use it to pin him in court.

So I can see LE going either way.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I tend to agree. Shallow grave in dense vegetation. Esp considering the way he discarded her items.

Why do I think this? A little side anecdote.

We had a double homicide a couple of years ago. The bodies were found miles apart. Items belonging to the female victim were also found. When I heard the news, I plotted the locations. It drew a perfect, or rather, imperfect, circle, so to speak. The bodies and items were found in three different counties. Based upon the trajectory, alone, I surmised the killer was circling back to his/her home, which was, imo, the murder location also, since the bodies and belongings were "dumped" as opposed to buried. Moreover, the victims were easily identified... no measures to try to conceal their identity. That is, outside of dumping them and their belongings all over the bay area. In any event, I contacted my local PD, which was the county where one of the bodies were found, explained why I thought what I thought... that the killer was circling back and likely lived in Oakland. They caught him, or rather them. Turned out to be two killers.

Anyway, the point of the above anecdote is to put in context, why I think this guy "circled around" also. While I do believe he stalked Sierra, I think his premeditation was more focused on abducting her and raping her. I don't think he really thought out what he was going to do afterwards. And that he murdered her to avoid detection (as opposed to sexual sadists, where murder is a key factor in their motivation). Which is why, imo, he was so sloppy in discarding her items. And why, I, personally, see them as breadcrumbs to where she may be.

And finally, while I could see them finding her in a ditch, I do not see him dumping her in a large body of water... unless he dumped her at the waters edge, which they've no doubt, checked by now.

Whatever the case, from everything that's been released, this guy has all the ear marks of a serial rapist, at best, and a serial killer in the making, at worst.

This is all, jmo, of course.

BBM

I agree with you, I think rape was his primary aim.

I keep wondering, though, if he was either impotent or unable to ejaculate (both things are not uncommon with rapists) and in a fit of rage and humiliation, he killed Sierra.

I also keep wondering if, after the fact, he was in a panic state and felt an urgent need to hide her body so that he could (in his own mind) go back to being the "good son" of the family.

I think he hid her body somewhere he felt confident it would not be found.

If he put her body into the water, I think it was from a bridge, so that the current would carry her body away from the bridge. The question would be, then, are there any bridges in the area that don't get much traffic? Or that don't get traffic at times that fit into what they know of his timeline?

Here in the midwest, there's bridges like that all over the place because there are rivers and reservoirs all over the place. I know California is different, though.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Then he would have just thrown it in the trash somewhere.

But they do what they do where they do it. It is their brain that makes the decision to toss evidence where they do and rarely do we ever know why they made the decision they did. Thank goodness most rapist/murderers arent rocket scientists.

I think he tossed it after he had disposed of Sierra's remains because it was convenient place and he didnt want to be caught with it in his car and he certainly couldnt have it in his possession when he returned to his wife.

 

[GrainneDhu]

My imagination is going wild and only going to let it out a little so don't take what I say apart too bad. LOL

What if, he killed her when he kidnapped her, with his emotions all haywire, where does he hide the body quickly? Another "IF" he did engage in theft of copper wiring via air condition units at foreclosed homes, could he have put her body in one of those units that was stripped, then head up to the mountain to his place he goes to contemplate, and took a swim where by leaving mud, water droplets with the diatoms, and that is why they think she is in water? He calmed down at UVAS, took a swim, thought what to do next and he remembered her backpack and stuff, so after his swim he gets in his car, gets her items and places them in the location found. Leaving his DNA, and DIATOMS in his car, her clothes, and his shoes/tires of car.

The weather high that day was in the 50s.

Does anyone local know what the water temp in the reservoirs was likely to be?

 

[Ven]

Yeah but the evidence wasn't "tossed" anywhere, i.e. the clothes were not found laying randomly on the ground. They were neatly folded by the criminal and placed in the bag and the bag was left at that particular spot, for whatever reason.

Why would someone dispose of a body, and keep the belongings and ditch them somewhere else? If he was caught up in the moment, and realized at a later time that he still had incriminating evidence in his possession, why would he put anywhere besides the nearest trash dumpster? That's what all criminals do, they throw it in the nearest trash receptacle unless they don't care if it's found, then they just leave it there, not transport it somewhere else.

IMO, the assault most likely happened there, and the bag was either neatly left there or returned there as a memorial of the event.

Someone in an earlier post said this guy had a history of violently acting out, and then apologizing after the fact.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I still think, even more so now that we have a not brilliant suspect, that he only noticed the bag was still in his car when he was back in the area, and just left it the best place he could think of, no meaning, no signal, etc...

Then he would have just thrown it in the trash somewhere.

He worked at Safeway. According to a local, Safeway has cameras covering their dumpsters.

I think it's very possible that he learned from working at Safeway that trash receptacles may not be a safe place to dump anything.

 

[sayd]

I think that is a strong possibility. I think it's possible that is the only reason why that bag was left there and that there isn't really any underlying meaning to its placement and the folding of the clothes. I also think it's possible that he made her remove her clothes and fold them in the bag herself.

This bag just stumps me. In trying to figure out what happened to Sierra, I was thinking about the order the clothes would be in. Most women would normally put the undergarments in first (we wouldn't want them to fall out!), followed by the pants/shirt, and her inhaler might be in a pocket where she could grab it quickly. But, if she undressed and folded at his insistence, it would go more like first the shirt, the bra, then the jeans, followed by the underwear. I think her inhaler and stuff would be at the bottom of the bag or still in a side pocket because they wouldn't have been removed.

If he did it, then they could be in any sort of random order because he would have done it after the fact. But judging from the video of his room, he is not a neat freak and I don't think he would fold.

Early on someone mentioned that maybe his girlfriend or mother or even a passing woman folded them and then placed the bag. But then their dna, not his would be on the bag. Maybe it is; I have no idea. But all very, very odd.

So I am left to think that if she folded them, the order would be from bottom to top, inhaler (or in side pocket), shirt, bra, jeans, and underwear.

I probably over think this stuff. Thoughts?

 

[Ven]

Well I have a hard time believing she placed the items in her bag; any command he would give would probably be limited to just undressing, and he would be in a hurry beyond that. Otherwise he physically removed the clothes himself.

In either case, with the clothes removed and presumably laying on the ground, he could have just left them there. So strange to put them in a bag and place the bag elsewhere.

As Tuba said maybe it all happened in the car, then I guess he could put them in the bag and want to get rid of the bag, but still weird to place them in that particular spot instead of trash or somewhere they are not likely to be found.

 

[sayd]

Ven I really agree. It just doesn't make sense!

 

[Mahouston69]

The condoms were not at the bus top . They have been ruled out anyway.

They were found at the end of Palm Ave.. a dead end. I didn't read anything that said they were ruled out. The Sheriff made a comment that it "might be nothing" because it is a frequent place for teens to park and hang out. However, they also noted the box was new and had not deteriorated in the elements or rain. They did collect the box and the condoms.

 

[Lera213]

Lets see now, he was the driver, did he have her undress as he was driving to keep her from jumping out of the car then tie her up? Did he take her to a place then had her undress herself, did he undress her and fold her clothes and put in the bag? I think most of us would agree that it was Sierra that folded her clothes. This guy doesn't strike me as taking that time to do that unless in his own demented mind he did that thinking if found and it is all packed neatly they might think she ran away, or something.

So we have Sierra standing waiting for the bus, he pulls up to her, then what, does he get out of the car and subdue her? Or does he have a GUN and tells her to get in the car, then he tells her to undress. He could have that gun in a hiding spot somewhere. Maybe this is why he tells his family he is going fishing but in reality he is going to get his stash ie...gun, stun gun, drugs, theft tools etc.

I noticed while traveling around the area of where the bag and phone was found, there are a few junk/salvage type yards around. Does he know people around that he would know if they are home or not, and have put Sierra on thier land or something?

OK just throwing a bunch of stuff out there to get my brain working. Maybe it will trigger someone else to come up with something too.

 

[Annah]

This bag just stumps me. In trying to figure out what happened to Sierra, I was thinking about the order the clothes would be in. Most women would normally put the undergarments in first (we wouldn't want them to fall out!), followed by the pants/shirt, and her inhaler might be in a pocket where she could grab it quickly. But, if she undressed and folded at his insistence, it would go more like first the shirt, the bra, then the jeans, followed by the underwear. I think her inhaler and stuff would be at the bottom of the bag or still in a side pocket because they wouldn't have been removed.

If he did it, then they could be in any sort of random order because he would have done it after the fact. But judging from the video of his room, he is not a neat freak and I don't think he would fold.

Early on someone mentioned that maybe his girlfriend or mother or even a passing woman folded them and then placed the bag. But then their dna, not his would be on the bag. Maybe it is; I have no idea. But all very, very odd.

So I am left to think that if she folded them, the order would be from bottom to top, inhaler (or in side pocket), shirt, bra, jeans, and underwear.

I probably over think this stuff. Thoughts?

Does anyone think that she could have placed the bag there, if in fact the assault did occur there? Maybe she assumed she would need it and her clothing after and placed it there. In that case, I can imagine it would be easily left behind. Perhaps in a hurry to remove himself and her from the scene, he completely forgot that it was there

That could explain why it was there I suppose. only thing that I think is she would be somewhat frantic, and too scared to "place it" anywhere .

 

[Mahouston69]

came across this today while googling... very odd. In the center, it kind of looks like one of the vigil cup/candle things? ??
http://youtu.be/TL2SV2VNbM4

 

[Annah]

came across this today while googling... very odd. In the center, it kind of looks like one of the vigil cup/candle things? ??
http://youtu.be/TL2SV2VNbM4

Looks like another sicko, crazy creep. The description says 8:08 perhaps the bible verse? it says something to the affect of those that are in the flesh cannot please god.

if a verse it should be written 8:8.

 

[cluciano63]

If he assaulted her there by the shed, she would have been found there, IMO. No reason to hide her at that point. His biggest risk would have been while the assault and murder took place.

 

[Tuba]

You have a good idea there, Lera213. He would have special familiarity with all of the area junk & salvage yards, having turned scrap to coin for quite a period. He might also know of special rubbish tips where junk too worthless even for those junk yards is dropped off or heaved from trucks. Rather than pay at the gate of a landfill, unredeemables could collect at such a spot. So, he knows the great outdoors as well and in parts of California, woods and gulches are dumped on nightly. (Sad, isn't it?) All of these locations should be inspected.

HotSteno made a video of Sierra's morning walk to the bus stop and it covers quite a bit of road. More than I expected. It is our information now that she was down the block from her home address when halted by A.G.-T. She did not make it to the bus stop. I think he was in his Jetta along the side of the road as she walked it and that he tasered her, possibly from behind just after she passed the car.

 

[Annie1004]

Looks like another sicko, crazy creep. The description says 8:08 perhaps the bible verse? it says something to the affect of those that are in the flesh cannot please god.

if a verse it should be written 8:8.

Or it was taken at 8:08 am.

 

[ozazure]

I think he put the clothes in the bag. It's not a big bag and he packs it up to place there for whatever reason. I think with her books as well. It takes seconds to fold a garment in quarters, eighths, it's quicker than trying to jam them in the bag unfolded.

The bag placement doesn't strike me that much as odd to be honest, I can think of lots of explanations. It's a secondary hiding spot to Sierra. Why isn't it with Sierra? a) he took her alive far from the car where the bag was and returned with only the clothes b) he forgot he had the bag until he calmed down c) he wanted to keep it in some respect even if not at home d) she is somewhere he couldn't leave the bag without drawing extra attention, like water or camouflaged in scrub. Or it's some combo of those.

And why was it where it was - one or more of these reasons seem simple to me: a) he thought it was a reasonably good spot to never be found (wrong, but the analogy of finding the tiny bead in your whole home in 2 days is very enlightening) b) it as a temporary spot to come back to but he didn't because of the searches c) it was a place to drop it unobserved unlike most rubbish bins d) it is away from sierra's location but close to where she left from so not much extra location info for investigators (dunno if he's that smart) e) he didn't mind if it was found because he thought it was free of information about him.

I don't think he assaulted her there, because there is no evidence of it, LE moved on from that area fairly quickly. i think this location was visited after the main crime had occurred. I think the assault would have been violent from the start, straight to the point, and she wouldn't have been undressing herself and folding clothes. Unless he has experience, and other missing girls are murdered, I think he would have used all his engraged power to ensure he was successful this time.

I just had an idea ... what if he WASHED sierra's clothes in a lake to remove evidence??? Is that why they are wet?? And he felt safe enough to leave them temporarily or permanently?

eta - it is not known for sure if they were wet, it's just one potential I keep in mind from Cardoza's response about the urine.

 

[Lera213]

Its a virgin mary statue

 

[katydid23]

Lets see now, he was the driver, did he have her undress as he was driving to keep her from jumping out of the car then tie her up? Did he take her to a place then had her undress herself, did he undress her and fold her clothes and put in the bag? I think most of us would agree that it was Sierra that folded her clothes. This guy doesn't strike me as taking that time to do that unless in his own demented mind he did that thinking if found and it is all packed neatly they might think she ran away, or something.

So we have Sierra standing waiting for the bus, he pulls up to her, then what, does he get out of the car and subdue her? Or does he have a GUN and tells her to get in the car, then he tells her to undress. He could have that gun in a hiding spot somewhere. Maybe this is why he tells his family he is going fishing but in reality he is going to get his stash ie...gun, stun gun, drugs, theft tools etc.

I noticed while traveling around the area of where the bag and phone was found, there are a few junk/salvage type yards around. Does he know people around that he would know if they are home or not, and have put Sierra on thier land or something?

OK just throwing a bunch of stuff out there to get my brain working. Maybe it will trigger someone else to come up with something too.

In the safeway attempted assaults he used a taser on the women. He followed them in the dark pking lot and tased them and tried to get them to comply. Luckily it did not work---- as far as we know anyway.

But I think he may have tased Sierra, and I don't think she made it to the bus stop. I think he may have even been on her cul de sac.

ETA: I just read Tuba upthread, and she had similar thoughts. Sorry I did not see it earlier before I posted.