Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #4 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[nursebeeme]

the way the items were tossed on right along the road doesn't seem to me like they were very hidden... heck... you could hide them better by going to a taco bell or somewhere else and throwing them in a dumpster if you did not want them found. The location of the items indicates haste and/or not thinking it thru/not wanting to be seen in a public place where there might be cameras or all of the above

moo of course

 

[sarx]

If there is anyone up here who has the time to fax email flyers to hotels/motels in a given radius could you stop by the SAR thread please? TIA.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166791&page=5

 

[LisaB]

I keep taking it back to the scene: Scent trail stops at the end of the driveway.

Suppose she hopped into a car driven by a person with a familiar face to her, someone she thought would give her a lift, and she felt OK with that. Someone older.

(snip)

~random thoughts/jmo~

When my daughter was 15 I did not allow her to ride with teen drivers. But I also left for work shortly before she walked to the bus. She COULD have been having a friend pick her up at the base of the driveway EVERY day, as could Sierra, as nobody was home to be sure she actually rode the bus.

Because a "new kid" always finds busses and cafeterias to be particularly troublesome (knowing who to sit by, etc.) I could see her being grateful enough for an older kid (or an adult she knew) driving her and keeping it from her family. In this case, the person could have spent some time making her comfortable, over the course of several rides, before making a move.

 

[sarx]

Here you go:

FYI, they were combing this area, but it is not the exact location of the bag. There is also a house directly past it (look for the green dumpster in the background). The house backs right up to this area. This just happens to be the area they were clearing nearby and a good photo op.

 

[nutkin]

I think all of this depends on what type of perp we have - organized or disorganized. If this was a stalker, then they'd have to be organized and thus, everything is planned out. The placement of the phone and purse mean something. If it is a disorganized offender, then she was a victim of chance and they just ditched her stuff as a way of getting rid of evidence. If we have the latter type, we can't rule out the offender not realizing the purse was even in the car and suddenly noticing it on his way back to the area and tossing it then.

 

[nutkin]

When my daughter was 15 I did not allow her to ride with teen drivers. But I also left for work shortly before she walked to the bus. She COULD have been having a friend pick her up at the base of the driveway EVERY day, as could Sierra, as nobody was home to be sure she actually rode the bus.

Because a "new kid" always finds busses and cafeterias to be particularly troublesome (knowing who to sit by, etc.) I could see her being grateful enough for an older kid (or an adult she knew) driving her and keeping it from her family. In this case, the person could have spent some time making her comfortable, over the course of several rides, before making a move.

Her bus driver should be able to confirm if she always rode the bus or not. The buses in my area even have video surveillance cameras at the front and rear.

 

[3angelsrmine]

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/312514/28/Search-for-Sierra-LaMar-enters-11th-day

This article also states that LE believes the clothes found "neatly folded" are the ones Sierra was wearing that day.

I tried to post the quote, but for some reason couldn't :blushing:

 

[KrazyKatLadi]

I don't particularly think it was staged either. But, this wasn't a druggie. I've seen crackheads steal screen doors or a used candle and try to trade them for drugs. An addict isn't going to toss anything they deem valuable.

I'm not saying "crackheads" exactly, but a couple of guys that have been snorting coke might be driving around, see or know a pretty girl walking to the bus, and do something bad. I've known people from cops to doctors to people working at Taco Bell who do all kinds of drugs and none of them stole to pay for it. JMO

 

[nutkin]

The fact that LE sat on the info. about finding the purse for several days before releasing it to the public, makes me think that they were not going to give the public that information but someone else (maybe the FBI) thought it would be a good chance to communicate with the perp and that is why terms such as "secreted" and "neatly folded" may not make sense to the public... Odd terminology has seemingly only been used in regards to the purse.

 

[OldSteve]

So lets for a minute forget what was in the bag and say this: Two things she really enjoyed: her bag ( a nice one) and of course as most teens her phone.

So if it were someone that was angry at her or jealous-and she was set up by a female have some have suggested,or maybe a group of them they get her in the car and can hardly even wait because they are jealous and they toss her phone and her purse. What do they do now? Do they panic oh my gosh we didn't think this far? Does mommy or daddy have a vacation home somewhere?

Have I watched too many lifetime movies?
I will ask again..... what about other absentees that day at school? I wonder if that has been checked?

Interesting thought - someone so angry at her that the take and toss the two things she like so much.

I had thought if she were running away and thinking of starting a completely new life, she might toss her bag and phone as some sort of symbolic gesture, but your idea makes more sense IMO, since if she was running to start a new life, while bring all this attention upon herself...

A long shot thought is that she staged this with a friend(s) for attention.. and while that would get her in trouble, at least she'd be okay... But too much time is passing by for that, and sadly it seems like she was taken.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Based on the evidence we have, for all we know, she made it to the bus stop, and then was offered a ride.

If this is so, then I'm very surprised the first search dogs used lost her scent at the end of her driveway. The bus stop was a couple blocks away and I have no doubt the handlers double checked the entire route, just in case.

As they were driving away someone threw her phone out the window.

If this were the case, there would be no crime scene or anything useful in the proximity around the house.

So I think there still must be other evidence leading them to believe that there is something near the house.

This brings up a big question for me. This is still considred a "missing person's" case. They have evidence from her purse which could indicate that she was possibly removed from her clothing and all he possessions, and they've been searching around her house a lot. Is it normal to keep it as a "missing person" when there is a lot of evidence to suggest abduction?

I think it is. For instance, in the Kyron Horman case that involved a 7 year old, they kept the possibility open that he was a missing person or runaway for quite a long time, a week or more.

As for why they processed the house, I think they are following the numbers and established procedures: start at the centre and work out. The investigators don't know what there is or is not to be found unless they actually go looking for it.

For instance: one possible scenario would have the perp park their car at the end of the driveway but hide next to the house before Sierra left that morning. As she left the house, cellphone in hand, merrily texting away, the perp comes up behind her, grabs her and frog-marches her into the vehicle.

That would give the perpetrator quick physical control of the victim and be relatively low risk. The window for detection would be less than ten seconds, maximum.

If that happened, the perp may have left trace evidence near the house. There's no way for the investigators to know unless they actually look for such evidence.

 

[Hisimage]

This article also states that LE believes the clothes found "neatly folded" are the ones Sierra was wearing that day.

I tried to post the quote, but for some reason couldn't :blushing:

Okay- so I don't like that at all, I was really hoping for something different. My gut would tell me then that the person who took her came back, drove by and tossed her stuff. I just don't believe he/she could have done it while she was in the car. UNLESS she let somebody in the house and it all happened there.

And if they drove back to the area it would still be before anyone knew she was missing. They would have to know her enough to know how much time they had. Beginning to think somebody from school.

 

[nutkin]

Okay- so I don't like that at all, I was really hoping for something different. My gut would tell me then that the person who took her came back, drove by and tossed her stuff. I just don't believe he/she could have done it while she was in the car. UNLESS she let somebody in the house and it all happened there.

And if they drove back to the area it would still be before anyone knew she was missing. They would have to know her enough to know how much time they had. Beginning to think somebody from school.

Or it could be someone she met on the internet that she gave all of the information to unwittingly.

 

[nursebeeme]

maybe she only started riding the bus after the Christmas holidays... that would be about 6 weeks, right?

 

[Paulette]

You'd think that if she rode the bus everyday, the dogs would have picked up her scent all the way to the bus stop. But no, they only tracked her to the end of the driveway. What does that mean? Did she ride the bus everyday or not?

 

[sarx]

You'd think that if she rode the bus everyday, the dogs would have picked up her scent all the way to the bus stop. But no, they only tracked her to the end of the driveway. What does that mean? Did she ride the bus everyday or not?

It means that if the dogs were correct, that the freshest scent ended at end of the driveway.

 

[nursebeeme]

Paulette, I asked that question early on of Sarx about the trail to the bus if she had just walked there the day before...

sarx said the dogs are trained to tell between fresh scent and older scent. (he explained it like a bouquet of roses.. if you put out an old one and a fresh one your nose can tell the fresher one)

I hope I got that right sarx!

 

[katydid23]

On the other hand, if a "perp" had taken them to the other side of Gilroy or
smack dab in the middle of downtown San Jose, we wouldn't be talking about this stuff, at all.

The point to me is, WHOEVER, wanted them found, that's why they are so close to home.
Just not right away.

I don't know that they WANTED them to be found, but maybe more that they didn't want them to be found too quickly. You are right, they might have been able to take them to a dumpster in Gilroy, but then there is the chance that thebag would have been found and there might be witnessesto him throwing it in there, or videos from a gas station camera. So maybe throwing it immediately into the field from a moving car is the safest choice.

 

[Frogzilla]

I haven't been following this case for very long, but I had a couple thoughts while reading up on this case and then looking at her social media added a few more, but in all of the available info there is one thing that really stands out IMO.
The most eye catching thing to me so far is the finding of her bag and then the delay in reporting that a bag was found. Some reports suggest that her parents did confirm the contents of the bag were hers, while other reports suggest that LE did not reveal this find because it took them awhile to confirm the bag was hers. This is the first red flag IMO. Keeping in mind LE already had a good idea what items to be looking for and they were going to verify it's contents regardless of her family telling them that the items are hers. You find the bag, check for anything unusual, if nothing unusual you immediately try to verify it is hers (showing to her parents may be a way a quick and easy way.) If you do find something unusual, you then take the necessary steps to ensure that information does not come out right away. After four days of holding onto the bag, there may have been some trepidation in even releasing that find. To make it seem more obscured, LE seems to be playing a little game with the bag and its contents through the media. It could of been, her bag was found but we do not wish to discuss that any further at this time, but that is not what we are being offered.
The timing of releasing that her bag was found and the timing of reports of the FBI becoming involved is not a coincidence. I fear this case has taken a turn for the worst because the FBI does not get involved in suspected runaways, but they do get involved in suspected abductions.
IMO there is certainly something going on with this bag, it does not appear to be as simple as her bag was tossed and that is all we know. Also, I think it would be a safe assumption that her friends at school would know when/why she carried extra clothes with her, did she usually have another purse/bag with her, etc... I also wonder if she had a habit of sharing clothes or other items that could be found in a purse with her friends, that bag could be a buffet of evidence, probably most of it not in any way related to her being missing.
Then we add in the other discrepancy of the bag being tossed or secreted away and I would say this bag may hold more clues than the public is being led to believe. Here is the quote (from a news clip) from LE on the Nancy Grace show- The reason the information wasn`t immediately made available to the public was because we had to confirm that the clothes did belong to Sierra, and we had to do some further investigative follow-up on that. Through confirmation from Sierra`s family and through some of the investigative efforts, we have now confirmed that those clothes and the bag did belong to Sierra.-
Take notice to the descriptions that LE was giving about the bag the next 2-3 days after the info was public. The array of attributed quotes from LE is the they found a bag and confirmed it was hers, another reported quote says they found the juicy brand bag and clothes inside, another report said juicy brand bag and clothes folded neatly inside, another report said neatly folded clothes with bra and underwear inside the purse. (Many other MSM articles are floating around.)
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/03/22/clothes-found-in-bag-belong-to-missing-
california-teen-police-say/
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Search-for-Missing-Sierra-LaMar-Intensifies-
Saturday-144108536.html
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1203/23/ng.01.html
Okay, so let me try to recap what is being said here. LE says that they had found her bag (keeping in mind this particular type of bag is not commonly found laying in the ditch/grass and they were already aware she had a similar bag) and it took them four days to confirm it was her's, through her family AND through investigative efforts. In the Nancy Grace interview, several days after the LE release of info, her mother claims to have not seen this bag after it was found.
What would make sense to me, is if there was some type of obvious evidence found on the bag/clothes and LE wanted to make sure they were ahead of the game before they released that info. Otherwise, you just have a bag with clothes that anyone in LE/searchers with basic information on this case would say there is a 99% chance that is her bag right away.
Is anyone else sensing a vibe that LE is trying to send out mixed messages about this
bag? What possible messages could they be sending out about this bag. Most likely
something they think that only the abductor may understand? I think where there is
smoke, there is fire.

 

[JDB]

ALl this is about the clothes . As of the 22nd it was not and as far as I have heard still has not been confirned they were the ones she was weraing the day she went missing

The FBI is assisting with the search as well, but Cardoza declined to comment on why or in what capacity the federal agency is involved.

Authorities declined to confirm whether or not LaMar had been wearing the clothing that was found in her purse Sunday, or if she might have been carrying them for a sleepover or an after-school change of clothes. Cardoza could not confirm if LaMar typically carried a change of clothing in her purse, or if she had any plans after school Friday.

Nothing else was found in the purse - not even makeup, a wallet or hair brush, Cardoza said.

http://www.morganhilltimes.com/news...cle_db3bf222-744a-11e1-b2b5-001a4bcf6878.html