Deceased/Not Found CA - Sierra LaMar, 15, Morgan Hill, 16 March 2012 #7 *A. Garcia-Torres guilty*

[BeginnersLuck]

Initially, it reminded me of that too... IDK how often she took photos of herself like that before school. IIRC, the genesis of the photo story was that Sierra too the photo of herself using her phone.Sent it to a boy ( never identified ) Then later, after she went missing,the boy sent it to Marlene. Actually, I could swear that I read that Marlene said this... But,who knows ? MOO

In some of the photos that I have observed she is looking up with her eyes but her arms are down. This would indicate to me she would have used a webcam for those photos.

 

[GrainneDhu]

If I am violating TOS, mods, please delete my post.

I find it very concerning that Ms. Lamar repeatedly referred to Sierra in the past tense during her Friday interview with Nancy Grace.

It struck me as being so odd that I tried it out in scenarios from my own life.

I don't have children, but I do have the closest thing, beloved pets. My cat, for instance.

I tried to imagine speaking of my hypothetically missing kitty, and using the past tense without knowing her fate just felt wrong. It felt much more natural to speak of her in the present tense: "She's a good girl, she loves her treats, she likes to have her tummy rubbed unlike most cats; she's a very gentle girl. I just want her to come home."

Then I thought well that's the surrogate child cat, what if the situation involved another human loved one. Would it be different?

So I substituted my beloved mom for the cat in this thought experiment. And I concluded that I would say if she were missing, "She's the best mom ever, I love her dearly, I don't know what I would do without her, she needs her medication, etc." Without knowing for sure she's deceased, it just doesn't feel at all natural to say "She was this, she was that."

I am not accusing Marlene of anything, but as I started with, I find it concerning that she repeatedly referred to Sierra in the past tense. It may mean nothing; then again it may mean there is a lot more here than meets the eye.

JMO and all that.

It is true that using the past tense sometimes indicates guilty knowledge on the part of the perpetrator.

In the Scott Peterson case, that's one of the (bajillion) things that raised suspicion about him early on.

However, from fairly early on, Laci Peterson's mother was mixing the present and past tenses in talking about Laci. She did it because she was on an emotional rollercoaster of hope but fundamentally convinced that Laci would never just walk out of her life voluntarily.

So possibly, Marlene is utterly, 150% convinced that Sierra would never run away and so, something unthinkably horrible has happened to her.

Personally, I find Marlene difficult to read. Strictly in my own opinion of the videos I've seen, she appears spacey and not quite there. Since I have no pre-disappearance videos to compare with, I have no way of knowing if she's terminally spacey or if she is, perhaps, under the influence of some type of meds (maybe anti-anxiety?).

 

[LinasK]

How brazen was it to kidnap Polly Klaas from her slumber party? How about kidnapping Elizabeth Smart from her own home? ETC. It happens. It's not normal but ..........

True, in both of those cases and Danielle Van Dam, at least one parent was in the house ( and awake in the Van Dam case) when the girl was abducted!

 

[Thirteen]

While it is possible that all the dogs are wrong, that's a fairly low probability. Both sarx and Oriah have said that the department has a good reputation and their dog work is high quality.

It is a logical conclusion to me that you would find someones scent around their dwelling. Heck the FBI brought in dogs just shortly after local LE did their search. The FBI's dogs focused on a yard right next to SL's (not her driveway) so now we have dogs saying different things.

Fact is the age of the scent trail matters. Any document you lookup on these dogs tells you that. I don't need to be a handler to read. The FBI dogs lost her scent in the neighbors yard so now where are we? This is exactly my point. LE didn't draw any conclusions from this and I don't think we should either.

As a matter of fact I believe it was Klaas that came to a conclusion based on the dogs not LE.

 

[Whisperer]

It is a logical conclusion to me that you would find someones scent around their dwelling. Heck the FBI brought in dogs just shortly after local LE did their search. The FBI's dogs focused on a yard right next to SL's (not her driveway) so now we have dogs saying different things.

Fact is the age of the scent trail matters. Any document you lookup on these dogs tells you that. I don't need to be a handler to read. The FBI dogs lost her scent in the neighbors yard so now where are we? This is exactly my point. LE didn't draw any conclusions from this and I don't think we should either.

Which neighbor's yard, right or left, if facing the home?

 

[Elphie]

Thank you for the welcome!

I just wanted to comment on a couple things. When I was at the search for Sierra, I heard that Sierra never folds or packs her clothes neatly. I know that the NG show caused some confusion with the transcript being different from what Marlene actually said. I also heard that the bus driver waited at the bus stop for Sierra and when she didn't show up, the driver went by her house to see if she was just late coming out.

I spoke to Marlene and she did use the past tense when speaking of Sierra, but she would also talk about when Sierra comes home. It seemed to me that she didn't even realize she was using the past tense. I feel bad for Marlene. I can't even image not knowing what has happened to her daughter or where she is for over three weeks. I am amazed she is able to cope at all.

 

[Whisperer]

That shows how conerned the driver was. It must have been out of the ordinary for her to miss the bus. Did the bus driver go up the street and drive by the house?

A large bus couldn't. I wonder if he waited at the bottom of the street.

 

[Whisperer]

Elphie..

:welcome:

 

[BeeBeeOh]

could 2 Freemont boys, upperclassmen have come and preyed on Sierra with no recent contact? Just been out front as she headed to school? Come on Sierra, lets go smoke one/drink one for old times sake, its a nice day and we're skipping school. She gets in willingly, assuming she will ride around for awhile then get to school late. The boys snatch her phone toss it, take her to the building, force her to strip and fold the clothes while in the building, wedge the bags between the building/cactus and the car , force her in the car naked and drive off.... they could calmly tell anyone that they havent seen her since she left freemont.... would mean she is somewhere familiar, possibly alive and only those two boys would know. Perhaps thats the car of 2 boys who skipped school and the cops are back tracking to see if its related to Sierra.

Its a pretty old car, what kinds of cars do Sierra friends drive? Second hand paid off cars or leased vehicles??

 

[IzzyBlanche]

However, from fairly early on, Laci Peterson's mother was mixing the present and past tenses in talking about Laci. She did it because she was on an emotional rollercoaster of hope but fundamentally convinced that Laci would never just walk out of her life voluntarily.

Respectfully snipped to focus on what I am responding to


I won't argue with you on this as I don't remember.

However I do not recall Sharon Rocha ever looking as cheerful and happy in the aftermath of Laci's disappearance as Marlene looks at about :52 in this video.

Again I am not accusing Marlene of anything but this too makes me go Hmm.


Search for Sierra Lamar heads to Gilroy - YouTube

 

[Elphie]

Did the bus driver go up the street and to the house?

Yes, she did drive up to her house and waited a couple of minutes and then left assuming Sierra was home sick or not going to school for some other reason.

 

[krkrjx]

It is true that using the past tense sometimes indicates guilty knowledge on the part of the perpetrator.

In the Scott Peterson case, that's one of the (bajillion) things that raised suspicion about him early on.

However, from fairly early on, Laci Peterson's mother was mixing the present and past tenses in talking about Laci. She did it because she was on an emotional rollercoaster of hope but fundamentally convinced that Laci would never just walk out of her life voluntarily.

So possibly, Marlene is utterly, 150% convinced that Sierra would never run away and so, something unthinkably horrible has happened to her.

Personally, I find Marlene difficult to read. Strictly in my own opinion of the videos I've seen, she appears spacey and not quite there. Since I have no pre-disappearance videos to compare with, I have no way of knowing if she's terminally spacey or if she is, perhaps, under the influence of some type of meds (maybe anti-anxiety?).

I would be fit to be tied if I were going through what Marlene is going through. I cannot imagine how a mother keeps it together to any degree in such a situation. I do not have a problem at all with the few times Marlene has misspoken; she has to be exhausted physically and emotionally by now. And yet she hangs in there for her daughter. And Steve too...he is just as involved in finding Sierra as Marlene is; it's just that she is the one on camera in all this. I cannot think offhand of any parents more involved for the sake of their missing child than these two, except possibly Diena Thompson and Beth Holloway.

I will be absolutely shocked if it turns out that either parent is hiding anything vital to this case. But until we know for certain what happened to Sierra, even the improbable remains possible.

 

[Thirteen]

Actually let me end the entire dog debate with what the Sheriff said. From the Nancy Grace transcripts.

GRACE: It`s my understanding that dogs picked up her scent to the bottom of the driveway, is that correct, Sheriff Smith?

SMITH: They did pick up her scent going out of her house. I`m not sure how far the scent had gone. And there`d been a lot of rain and wind that day.

There we go, done and done. This is what I'm saying. Don't try and force a round peg into a square hole. The Sheriff is even talking about bad conditions and the unreliability of the scent.

 

[Desdemona]

If I am violating TOS, mods, please delete my post.

I find it very concerning that Ms. Lamar repeatedly referred to Sierra in the past tense during her Friday interview with Nancy Grace.

It struck me as being so odd that I tried it out in scenarios from my own life.

I don't have children, but I do have the closest thing, beloved pets. My cat, for instance.

I tried to imagine speaking of my hypothetically missing kitty, and using the past tense without knowing her fate just felt wrong. It felt much more natural to speak of her in the present tense: "She's a good girl, she loves her treats, she likes to have her tummy rubbed unlike most cats; she's a very gentle girl. I just want her to come home."

Then I thought well that's the surrogate child cat, what if the situation involved another human loved one. Would it be different?

So I substituted my beloved mom for the cat in this thought experiment. And I concluded that I would say if she were missing, "She's the best mom ever, I love her dearly, I don't know what I would do without her, she needs her medication, etc." Without knowing for sure she's deceased, it just doesn't feel at all natural to say "She was this, she was that."

I am not accusing Marlene of anything, but as I started with, I find it concerning that she repeatedly referred to Sierra in the past tense. It may mean nothing; then again it may mean there is a lot more here than meets the eye.

JMO and all that.

Yes, and NG's questions to her about what Sierra is like were framed in the present tense. Mom responded at length, repeatedly and consistently referring to Sierra in the past tense. Could mean nothing, but it really caught my attention, too.

----

ETA: I have never met these people. Perhaps it's wrong to observe and comment upon behavior, and if so, my apologies. No offense is intended. Like several other moms of children who've gone missing in the past, just because some find her demeanor odd, does not mean that she is anything other than a hurting parent. Thank you to posters who have pointed this out.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I would like to discuss the search dogs brought in initially. The earliest mention of them was from a Saturday search. Sierra went missing Friday morning.



Doesn't mention that the scent ends at the driveway thats odd. All they say is no trace of her was found.

Link



How come they didn't follow the scent from her walking to the bus stop on Thursday? Search dogs were brought in the next day. Had they been brought in that day I think it would have improved chances of a scent.

You can look up information on search dogs, one agency claims to have found a scent a week old. So if SL's scent actually ended at the driveway why didn't they continue to the bus stop from the scent from Thursday?

Link

I understand exactly how the dogs work. Thats why I'm bringing this up. I don't think LE would or is basing anything off of the search dogs because no conclusion was reached. IMO the area has to be terrible for scent dogs to get a scent or she was getting into a vehicle everyday to go to school.

In my other opinion her close friends probably would have known that. Heck we can rule that completely out by talking to the school bus driver right? I don't believe the dogs found anything that can or should be used as evidence.

Oriah or sarx can answer this better but here I am again.

Dogs are trained for various sub-specialties that are all generally called tracking or scent detection. The subset of dogs that we're talking about in this case are dogs that are trained to sniff a personal item belonging to the victim, then search for the freshest scent of that victim.

The reason why they start the dogs at the victim's last known point (in this case, from inside the house) is because the dogs are trained to indicate only on the freshest scent available. If there are older scents from previous days, a trained dog will ignore those scents.

This is actually an easy, beginner level exercise for a dog. When I lived in a medium sized city, the closest area for me to start tracking training for my dogs was a 30 acre park just a block from my house. It was easy to pop up there, lay my tracks, go home, do stuff (to let the tracks age), then get my dog and go track.

I often tracked every day in that park. Particularly when my tracks started getting long relative to the size of the park, I'd be crossing and re-crossing my tracks from previous days and weeks.

It just wasn't a problem. The first session where I crossed over old tracks, my dog would indicate the old track and I'd just stop, tell them "that's not what we're looking for" and go on when they indicated on the correct track again.

And that was it. Problem solved, question answered: what Mom wanted was her freshest track, not any of the older ones.

When we advanced to doing blind tracks, I used either my next door neighbour or my ex-husband to go up to that same park to lay tracks. Needless to say, they crossed and re-crossed their own tracks from previous sessions as well. By that time, my dogs never bothered to indicate on those older tracks; they understood that I only wanted the freshest track and the older tracks would not pay off.

Having dozens or even hundreds of people crossing a given track is a beginner level problem as well. The park I used was great for tracking because the entire back of it was all soccer fields, just acres and acres of open area grass. No obstacles to confuse things for a beginner dog.

I'd go up there early on a Saturday morning to lay my tracks, wait 6-8 hours until all the soccer games had been played, then take my dog up there to follow that morning's track. Again, no problem. Dozens or even hundreds of kids and adults charging back and forth across my track didn't make a difference (except I never had to worry about the cross tracks during a test!).

 

[BeeBeeOh]

wish that reporter would go on record as to WHAT made her smile THAT hard...

 

[Whisperer]

Yes, she did drive up to her house and waited a couple of minutes and then left assuming Sierra was home sick or not going to school for some other reason.

Thank you. Did you learn this from Marlene? Did she share anything else about what the driver may have seen?

 

[Thirteen]

Which neighbor's yard, right or left, if facing the home?

Ugh one sec lemme look this up. They spent an hour and a half there because the dog hit on the yard.

ETA: This is all I have. I don't know that they ever released that information.

Search and rescue dogs were brought in as the FBI combed through neighbors' yards. They seemed focused on one yard adjacent to the LaMar home.

 

[Inspector Gidget]

I would love to know if the person Sierra texted that morning and I believe it was her last text about the meeting before school was a set up or not.Was she really planning on meeting them or was that part of her plan to not show up at all? It couldn't be that much time before school anyway.Why the morning she disappears?

 

[Elphie]

Thank you. Did you learn this from Marlene? Did she share anything else about what the driver may have seen?

No, I learned this from a friend of the bus driver. She was working at the search all week.