CA - Unidentified & possible missing victims of Randy Kraft, 1971-1983

[Melt71]

.....I wonder if we can at least get a higher quality one like we did for Long Beach John Doe.

Yes I think a more lifelike, colour image would make people remember him and think about him when they are looking at old MPs.

 

[ivonne]

[QUOTE = "Melt71, publicación: 16265665, miembro: 252543"] Sí, creo que una imagen en color más realista haría que las personas lo recuerden y piensen en él cuando están mirando a antiguos diputados. [/ QUOTE]

"Inglaterra" 5348DMCA - Keith Anthony Jackson
1401UMCA
post morten photo: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bell_John_Doe_body.jpg

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

[QUOTE = "Melt71, publicación: 16265665, miembro: 252543"] Sí, creo que una imagen en color más realista haría que las personas lo recuerden y piensen en él cuando están mirando a antiguos diputados. [/ QUOTE]

"Inglaterra" 5348DMCA - Keith Anthony Jackson
1401UMCA
post morten photo: commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bell_John_Doe_body.jpg

I have always thought Keith Jackson would have been referred to as England on the scorecard, assuming he was a Kraft victim. As far as I know, Kraft never went to England himself, so it would be assumed he picked up someone with a very noticeable English accent.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

Here's two more possible cases, one of which was mentioned here earlier and another that has a Websleuth thread. Figured I would link it here:

CA - CA - Russell Goudy, 14, Huntington Beach, 17 July 1977

This thread references a 14 year old murdered in 1977, Russell Goudy Jr. He was last seen trying to hitch a ride in Huntington Beach and was found nude with cigarette burns a few days later alongside another person. Kraft wasn't known to have killed anyone in 1977, but the MO just seems to be pretty good of a match. I think Goudy could be a reference to 2 IN 1 HITCH (there were 2 victims found together) and Russell was hitchhiking.

Also, this John Doe found in 1974:
Orange County, California - 74-03389-GR
I emailed Orange County Coroner and received a response from Kelly Keyes, who I believe was working with DNA Doe Project on Trabuco Canyon John Doe 1996. She said that they as well as law enforcement were well aware of similarities between this case and Kraft's murder cases. Thankfully they say that DNA for this decedent is in CODIS, so hopefully we will see them identified. If that happens, maybe we will be able to match them to an entry, or exclude them if they aren't a victim at all.

 

[Ontheriver]

I hope so. I can ask them next week if they have saved anything. My fear is that for UP72085, the stench of the bag might have made it something where they couldn't, or wouldn't want to keep it around for too long. I'm sure they would have dusted it for fingerprints though, but that's not too much help.
And by morgue photo, you refer to Wilmington John Doe yes? If so, I wonder if we can at least get a higher quality one like we did for Long Beach John Doe.

Yes, I was referring to the morgue photo of Wilmington John Doe. If I remember correctly, there is a colorized drawing of him which does look like the morgue photo. Did you get the chance to talk to the ME (or coroner)? I have saved newspaper articles on Wilmington. Tellingly, the last body part found was a foot. It was found in a trash can behind Broom Hilda's, which was adjacent to the Stable bar.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

Yes, I was referring to the morgue photo of Wilmington John Doe. If I remember correctly, there is a colorized drawing of him which does look like the morgue photo. Did you get the chance to talk to the ME (or coroner)? I have saved newspaper articles on Wilmington. Tellingly, the last body part found was a foot. It was found in a trash can behind Broom Hilda's, which was adjacent to the Stable bar.

I know Carl Koppelman did a pretty accurate reconstruction of that John Doe, and there is also a NCMEC reconstruction on him as well. I have sent a few requests to get UP72085 a legitimate reconstruction from them a few day ago, but haven't heard back yet (I sent two). No worries there, it may take a bit. From what I can remember, both him and Wilmington John Doe had been seen around the gay bars in that area, but no one knew their names. Either they were not local, or were, and were estranged from family/friends, possibly for being homosexual, which makes their continued unidentified status even more tragic.

I had replied to an email response from LA coroner asking about other possible items that might have been saved in those cases but not heard back yet. I was legitimately tempted to reach out to Julie Haney, whom was contacted and helped solve the 1974 cold case murder of Oral Stewart (whom by the way, was STILL listed as unidentified on the LA coroner's website til late July on this year), if only to inquire whether they had tried to ask her for help on any of the other Kraft cases. I know she dealt specifically with Marines, but there are a few unmatched MC/Marine references on the scorecard:
* MARINE DOWN (Marine picked up/dumped in Downey perhaps)
* MC DUMP HB SHORT (Huntington Beach reference most likely)
* MC PLANTS (no legitimate clue here, could be a plant shirt the victim was wearing, or they were dumped near very distinctive flora, or even more out there, they looked like Robert Plant)

 

[chatnoir84]

I know Carl Koppelman did a pretty accurate reconstruction of that John Doe, and there is also a NCMEC reconstruction on him as well. I have sent a few requests to get UP72085 a legitimate reconstruction from them a few day ago, but haven't heard back yet (I sent two). No worries there, it may take a bit. From what I can remember, both him and Wilmington John Doe had been seen around the gay bars in that area, but no one knew their names. Either they were not local, or were, and were estranged from family/friends, possibly for being homosexual, which makes their continued unidentified status even more tragic.

I had replied to an email response from LA coroner asking about other possible items that might have been saved in those cases but not heard back yet. I was legitimately tempted to reach out to Julie Haney, whom was contacted and helped solve the 1974 cold case murder of Oral Stewart (whom by the way, was STILL listed as unidentified on the LA coroner's website til late July on this year), if only to inquire whether they had tried to ask her for help on any of the other Kraft cases. I know she dealt specifically with Marines, but there are a few unmatched MC/Marine references on the scorecard:
* MARINE DOWN (Marine picked up/dumped in Downey perhaps)
* MC DUMP HB SHORT (Huntington Beach reference most likely)
* MC PLANTS (no legitimate clue here, could be a plant shirt the victim was wearing, or they were dumped near very distinctive flora, or even more out there, they looked like Robert Plant)

* MC PLANTS, may be San Onofre Power Plant off the 5 fwy, near Pendleton. May have dump the body near the ocean or campgrounds

 

[Ontheriver]

I know Carl Koppelman did a pretty accurate reconstruction of that John Doe, and there is also a NCMEC reconstruction on him as well. I have sent a few requests to get UP72085 a legitimate reconstruction from them a few day ago, but haven't heard back yet (I sent two). No worries there, it may take a bit. From what I can remember, both him and Wilmington John Doe had been seen around the gay bars in that area, but no one knew their names. Either they were not local, or were, and were estranged from family/friends, possibly for being homosexual, which makes their continued unidentified status even more tragic.

I had replied to an email response from LA coroner asking about other possible items that might have been saved in those cases but not heard back yet. I was legitimately tempted to reach out to Julie Haney, whom was contacted and helped solve the 1974 cold case murder of Oral Stewart (whom by the way, was STILL listed as unidentified on the LA coroner's website til late July on this year), if only to inquire whether they had tried to ask her for help on any of the other Kraft cases. I know she dealt specifically with Marines, but there are a few unmatched MC/Marine references on the scorecard:
* MARINE DOWN (Marine picked up/dumped in Downey perhaps)
* MC DUMP HB SHORT (Huntington Beach reference most likely)
* MC PLANTS (no legitimate clue here, could be a plant shirt the victim was wearing, or they were dumped near very distinctive flora, or even more out there, they looked like Robert Plant)

I know Carl Koppelman did a pretty accurate reconstruction of that John Doe, and there is also a NCMEC reconstruction on him as well. I have sent a few requests to get UP72085 a legitimate reconstruction from them a few day ago, but haven't heard back yet (I sent two). No worries there, it may take a bit. From what I can remember, both him and Wilmington John Doe had been seen around the gay bars in that area, but no one knew their names. Either they were not local, or were, and were estranged from family/friends, possibly for being homosexual, which makes their continued unidentified status even more tragic.

I had replied to an email response from LA coroner asking about other possible items that might have been saved in those cases but not heard back yet. I was legitimately tempted to reach out to Julie Haney, whom was contacted and helped solve the 1974 cold case murder of Oral Stewart (whom by the way, was STILL listed as unidentified on the LA coroner's website til late July on this year), if only to inquire whether they had tried to ask her for help on any of the other Kraft cases. I know she dealt specifically with Marines, but there are a few unmatched MC/Marine references on the scorecard:
* MARINE DOWN (Marine picked up/dumped in Downey perhaps)
* MC DUMP HB SHORT (Huntington Beach reference most likely)

* MC PLANTS, may be San Onofre Power Plant off the 5 fwy, near Pendleton. May have dump the body near the ocean or campgrounds

Thank you for the excellent input. It sure helps when there are people familiar with the area. I've never been to CA (yet!) so I wouldn't have known about a power plant near by.

* MC PLANTS (no legitimate clue here, could be a plant shirt the victim was wearing, or they were dumped near very distinctive flora, or even more out there, they looked like Robert Plant)

 

[Ontheriver]

I had wondered if plants could be an allusion to marijuana but that's sort of a stretch I guess.

 

[Ontheriver]

I know Carl Koppelman did a pretty accurate reconstruction of that John Doe, and there is also a NCMEC reconstruction on him as well. I have sent a few requests to get UP72085 a legitimate reconstruction from them a few day ago, but haven't heard back yet (I sent two). No worries there, it may take a bit. From what I can remember, both him and Wilmington John Doe had been seen around the gay bars in that area, but no one knew their names. Either they were not local, or were, and were estranged from family/friends, possibly for being homosexual, which makes their continued unidentified status even more tragic.

I had replied to an email response from LA coroner asking about other possible items that might have been saved in those cases but not heard back yet. I was legitimately tempted to reach out to Julie Haney, whom was contacted and helped solve the 1974 cold case murder of Oral Stewart (whom by the way, was STILL listed as unidentified on the LA coroner's website til late July on this year), if only to inquire whether they had tried to ask her for help on any of the other Kraft cases. I know she dealt specifically with Marines, but there are a few unmatched MC/Marine references on the scorecard:
* MARINE DOWN (Marine picked up/dumped in Downey perhaps)
* MC DUMP HB SHORT (Huntington Beach reference most likely)
* MC PLANTS (no legitimate clue here, could be a plant shirt the victim was wearing, or they were dumped near very distinctive flora, or even more out there, they looked like Robert Plant)

After going back and looking at the victim list I realized that I mixed my John Does up. The foot found behind the bar belongs to Hawthorn Off Head not Wilmington. But the picture of Hawthorne's head was never published (for obvious reasons). I wonder if there is even a good sketch of him.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

After going back and looking at the victim list I realized that I mixed my John Does up. The foot found behind the bar belongs to Hawthorn Off Head not Wilmington. But the picture of Hawthorne's head was never published (for obvious reasons). I wonder if there is even a good sketch of him.

No worries there, considering the sheer number of entries/victims, it's common to mix up victims with their reported entries. And as far as sketches, there has not been more than that those set of Hawth that I have found. I have sent multiple requests to NCMEC to see if they can get a reconstruction for him at least, but have not seen anything come from it just yet (fingers crossed though). They must have saved the crime scene photos, grisly as they are, in order to get a reconstruction. 76 also desperately needs a reconstruction, a black and white sketch shouldn't be the only thing people remember of his face.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

I had wondered if plants could be an allusion to marijuana but that's sort of a stretch I guess.

Not a stretch at all. SD DOPE (which is right below MC PLANTS) and USER are obvious drug references. Kraft was a drug user himself and as clean cut as Marines were supposed to be, many used marijuana too. A marine who enjoyed marijuana, maybe even had a plant based tattoo(?), could be very much possible.

Also I was thinking:
The reference to PORTLAND is probably not a victim killed in Oregon at all. It is the 16th entry, smack dab between a bunch of victims that were killed in the mid 1970s. All the other Portland references are sandwiched together, and all have been matched to victims. Logically speaking, if this is an Oregon based homicide, this had to have been the most memorable victim killed while he was working for Lear Siegler and working up there. But then why would he put that separate from all the other Oregon murders? Why leave this one just PORTLAND totally isolated from the others?

Well...perhaps they were a hitchhiker from Portland, or more likely the Oregon area, in the area sometime in the early/mid 70s. We already know just a city/area is a memory trigger for him (TORRANCE, ENGLAND). Heck, IOWA was thought to be a reference to Oral Stewart, who was from Iowa. This person, Jay Calvin Pringle – The Charley Project, was a native of Medford, Oregon. They were supposedly last in Gardena, CA, in 1977. Gardena is fairly close to Long Beach. Even though Medford is not near Portland, Kraft could have asked if it was near Portland if the fact Pringle was from Oregon was mentioned. It seems Pringle's friend he was traveling with may have been involved in his death, but this is also a possibility (although a bit far out there too).

Either way, I still think the PORTLAND entry is at least more likely a murder case that occurred in southern California sometime during the 1970s than one that occurred in Oregon in the early 80s.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

I reached out to the LA County Coroner and heard back this morning. Seems Wilmington John Doe (April 1973) has been submitted to NCMEC (WJD February 1973 already has a NCMEC recon).
According to them:
---
1973-02574 (WJD February 1973) Had an item available and I have requested DNA testing.

1973-06995 (Wilmington John Doe (April 1973)) No items have been located for DNA testing
---
So it seems the sock was probably saved in the earlier case, which is at least good! 1979 Long Beach John Doe was found with a sock too, so maybe that was saved and DNA testing can be done on it too! Hopefully they may be able to get a suitable DNA profile in either of those cases.

Doesn't seem like that may be the case of the April 1973 case, but a NCMEC reconstruction will at least be a good starting point!

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

CONTENT WARNING: The NamUs page for Wilmington John Doe February 1973 has been updated, which includes a new postmortem image on them laying on the ground, presumably in the position that they were found, face up. The other is a higher resolution version of the previous postmortem photo of them that Carl Koppelman had based his reconstruction from. Please be careful about viewing the images in NamUs!

Also, both Wilmington John Doe (April 1973) and Long Beach John Doe (1979) have their data in NCMEC now, although no reconstructions just yet. Hopefully that will be fixed soon.

 

[MadMcGoo]

The new reconstruction has been added to “76”’s NamUs...
The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

I was watching a rather well put together documentary on the crimes of Samuel Little and how law enforcement was able to coax so many decades old confessions from him when only years before he was adamant that he had not killed anyone. I honestly wonder if the same thing could be done for Kraft, or if that is a lost cause. Even reading an article from 2016 shows that he is in total denial about what he had done: Death row's “Scorecard Killer,” a.k.a. "Freeway Killer," Randy Kraft, speaks - The Pride LA

Around July of next year, Kraft will have been in custody/prison longer than he was a free man (a little more than 38 years after he was arrested). The only people that he had any attachment to and kept in regular contact with after his arrest as I recall reading were his sisters. Both of his parents have passed away years ago, and his oldest sister Kay, whom he was closest to, passed away about a year ago as well. I believe he still has a living older sister, but don't know if he talks with her. I don't know how long he will live, or if he still even can assist in solving or clearing any cases. He's denied killing anyone for so long because he wants to keep control over the people he killed that it might be a waste to try but I hope that eventually he could open up. Even if we have to appeal to his narcissism and stroke his ego like they did to Little, if it means families can have answers, then it seems like it should be something to try.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

Finally, Wilmington John Doe (April 1973) has a NCMEC reconstruction too. The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)
Being able to put a face to this victim is important as a first step to hopefully identifying them. The two new reconstructions didn't seem to capture the side with the mole but at least we have the better possibility someone can recognize them. At this moment, they probably have one of the lowest chances of being identified (no DNA or fingerprints available), so this recon is a crucial step.

 

[victoriarobinson642]

Glad to see that NCMEC are doing reconstructions for Kraft's victims.

 

[AkitasAreLovely]

View attachment 272939
Glad to see that NCMEC are doing reconstructions for Kraft's victims.

I think only Laguna Hills John Doe (1974) is the last one who doesn't even have a reconstruction that is possibly within the age range for NCMEC to do. I will be reaching out to Orange county again to see if they can have a reconstruction for that still faceless individual.

 

[sam spade]

Forgive me if this has been posted somewhere before but:
"Hawth Off Head" found in Wilmington could have been from Hawthorne, CA as it is only 22 minutes apart. (Hence, "Hawth Off Head")
The pool table card found in one of the bags was from a Covina, CA shop and from Wilmington to Covina is on 49 minutes.