CA CA - Westlake Village, HispFem 18-30, UP11249, pregnant, in parking lot, Jul'80

[Springrain]

IMO, it is possible she was a prostitute, but nothing about the story seems to indicate this being either true or false. I can't imagine a SW keeping a pregnancy resulting from a john, but I guess it could happen? I am not trying to point fingers at the baby's father, but I do have to wonder if she was led on by the baby's father with promises of a relationship/marriage and/or was a "side piece" who he quit talking to upon finding out about her pregnancy. Again, just theorizing: we know Chouest did the murder, but thinking about these circumstances can maybe help place her.

Again, not pointing fingers, but if he does know anything about her and does not want to come forward for whatever reason, now is the time. It has been over 40 years, what's past is past, and this lovely lady deserves everyone involved in some capacity to be in her corner and sharing whatever they can to bring her home. I don't know what the circumstances were or whatever had gone on between them, but if he remembers, please, please come forward. Any information can, and likely will, help.

Maybe emphasizing the fact that he is not a suspect and that we know he is not culpable of the murder could help him come forward, but who knows.

I would really love to know how truthful Chouest is being, because this changes the story a lot. He has provided far more details about Shirley Soosay's murder than Jane's, so I imagine Shirley's was "more memorable" (for lack of better wording). If he is being truthful about Jane's story, with the scant few details provided, we can maybe map out some areas she may have frequented.

 

[Friday Fan]

Det. Rhods was planning to pay the baby's father a visit. I think he thinks the father is afraid they will pin the murder on him. (I think it's in the YouTube video) Dad lives in New York.

She Has a Name

The day after Chouest’s sentencing, Rhods and Barrick visited him in jail. Still uncooperative, Chouest did say he thought he had picked up Jane Doe Kern County in a Lemoore bar and Jane Doe Westlake as she had hitchhiked in the area.

Barrick didn’t buy it. Westlake’s clothes, her manicure, seemed more city than country. Chouest had killed Jane Doe Kern County, Barrick surmised, then driven south to Los Angeles. There, he picked up Westlake, murdered her, and dumped her in Thousand Oaks on his way north to Carolyn Bell’s house, where the boys vacuumed her blood from his car.

___________

I don't believe anything Chouest says.....

 

[Susikatze]

Excellent article. Well researched, great artwork, great detail.

It also says that the babydaddy was a married man in 1980 with a pregnant wife. Of course he would never ever admit an affair.
They interviewed him apparently on the phone bc he was a dna match to the fetus but he moved from L.A. to NYC shortly after... sounds he wants to run away.
I really hope they manage the face to face interview. We just need a name.

 

[djanga]

Carl said the dad’s wife learnt recently about this story, hopefully he would decide to speak out everything he knows/remembers

 

[Springrain]

IMO, and this is strictly my opinion, if he won't say anything about it, there may be one of two things at play here:

1) He genuinely does not remember her, for whatever reason (ranging from ONS, to SA, to prostitution, or whatever else).

OR

2) He knows he's been caught by DNA, but wants to navigate away from his relationship with Jane/downplay what may have gone on by pretending to forgot her.

I really do think it's #2 and that he does not want his wife to find out the true extent of their relationship. Whatever it is, it's very unfortunate.

 

[Springrain]

Det. Rhods was planning to pay the baby's father a visit. I think he thinks the father is afraid they will pin the murder on him. (I think it's in the YouTube video) Dad lives in New York.

RSBM~

I do wonder if he is afraid of this, but if he is, he shouldn't be, and I sincerely hopes he puts his fears aside to come forward. We all know the vile monster who did this is behind bars and he had no part in the murder, so again, he will not be charged with anything and it is essential to reveal whatever he knows so this woman and her unborn baby can go home.

 

[coco]

I think if I had something in my past like this and I genuinely had no recollection of the person, then id be very willing to undergo even something like hypnosis to try come up with details. LE can obviously work out approx when the poor baby was conceived, surely this man can try and place what he was doing at that point in his life. This girl was good enough at the time for him to be intimate with (I’m trying to word it politely, sorry if it’s not coming out right) and unprotected I’m assuming. I think the least he can do is try his best through what options are available to recall anything about her.

 

[Springrain]

I think if I had something in my past like this and I genuinely had no recollection of the person, then id be very willing to undergo even something like hypnosis to try come up with details. LE can obviously work out approx when the poor baby was conceived, surely this man can try and place what he was doing at that point in his life. This girl was good enough at the time for him to be intimate with (I’m trying to word it politely, sorry if it’s not coming out right) and unprotected I’m assuming. I think the least he can do is try his best through what options are available to recall anything about her.

I do wish there was something more scientifically-backed than hypnosis for this case, but I guess it'd be worth a shot - I'm up for anything at this point! I believe hypnosis was also used for the tattoo artist who did Bitter Creek Betty's tattoo, but I may be misremembering.

I'm pretty sure her baby would have been conceived around February/March 1980.

 

[Friday Fan]

I think if I had something in my past like this and I genuinely had no recollection of the person, then id be very willing to undergo even something like hypnosis to try come up with details. LE can obviously work out approx when the poor baby was conceived, surely this man can try and place what he was doing at that point in his life. This girl was good enough at the time for him to be intimate with (I’m trying to word it politely, sorry if it’s not coming out right) and unprotected I’m assuming. I think the least he can do is try his best through what options are available to recall anything about her.

I agree. I played a game, where I tried to remember what I was doing in Feb/Mar 1980. (Now, I didn't sleep with anyone, but that's a different story, but I was pretty old fashioned about my sex life..LOL)

I struggled to remember.

I can't remember exactly who I was dating Feb/Mar 1980. I was single, living on my own and working

What I remember:

• Christmas 1979: Guy who gave me a velvet Jesus painting. Can't remember his name. ( I returned the painting)
• Hunter who caught a bear and made me bear steaks. Remember name. Don't remember the dates.
• April-May 1980: V. from work. He stood out because he continued to call me for five years.

I'm sure there was someone else too?

Velvet Jesus, bear steaks, and V stand out..I know I probably dated others during that time frame.

__________________

Unprotected sex during that time period was fairly common.
It tended to be more common among lower income people.
We also don't know the citizenship status of the father.
I think it was common knowledge that he is from Honduras.
If he did not become a US citizen, he could be worried about that aspect and wants to keep under the radar. (JMO - a hypothesis/possible explanation)

Hubby's maternal grandfather never became a US citizen. He came here in 1913. Died in 1956. He looked over his shoulder his entire life​

 

[coco]

I agree. I played a game, where I tried to remember what I was doing in Feb/Mar 1980. (Now, I didn't sleep with anyone, but that's a different story, but I was pretty old fashioned about my sex life..LOL)

I struggled to remember.

I can't remember exactly who I was dating Feb/Mar 1980. I was single, living on my own and working

What I remember:

• Christmas 1979: Guy who gave me a velvet Jesus painting. Can't remember his name. ( I returned the painting)
• Hunter who caught a bear and made me bear steaks. Remember name. Don't remember the dates.
• April-May 1980: V. from work. He stood out because he continued to call me for five years.

I'm sure there was someone else too?

Velvet Jesus, bear steaks, and V stand out..I know I probably dated others during that time frame.

__________________

Unprotected sex during that time period was fairly common.
It tended to be more common among lower income people.
We also don't know the citizenship status of the father.
I think it was common knowledge that he is from Honduras.
If he did not become a US citizen, he could be worried about that aspect and wants to keep under the radar. (JMO - a hypothesis/possible explanation)

Hubby's maternal grandfather never became a US citizen. He came here in 1913. Died in 1956. He looked over his shoulder his entire life​

Funny you should mention that, I was playing that game with my mother today, she’s closer in age to this jane doe so I was seeing how good she remembered that time period!
I think I read further up that baby’s father was married at the time of our Jane Doe’s murder and expecting a daughter, so I’m thinking to be having some kind of tryst with a woman other than his wife would perhaps be more memorable than say a single male who may have been a bit of a busy bee sexually? Unless he was the sort to be carrying on with a bunch of different women behind his wife’s back making this girl just one of many. Just thinking out loud really

 

[Alleykins]

Funny you should mention that, I was playing that game with my mother today, she’s closer in age to this jane doe so I was seeing how good she remembered that time period!
I think I read further up that baby’s father was married at the time of our Jane Doe’s murder and expecting a daughter, so I’m thinking to be having some kind of tryst with a woman other than his wife would perhaps be more memorable than say a single male who may have been a bit of a busy bee sexually? Unless he was the sort to be carrying on with a bunch of different women behind his wife’s back making this girl just one of many. Just thinking out loud really

I'm thinking the wife probably knew. She may not have known the details, but at some point, if he fathered a few kids with other women, at least one of them most likely tried to hit him up for child support.

 

[madamx]

IMO, and this is strictly my opinion, if he won't say anything about it, there may be one of two things at play here:

1) He genuinely does not remember her, for whatever reason (ranging from ONS, to SA, to prostitution, or whatever else).

OR

2) He knows he's been caught by DNA, but wants to navigate away from his relationship with Jane/downplay what may have gone on by pretending to forgot her.

I really do think it's #2 and that he does not want his wife to find out the true extent of their relationship. Whatever it is, it's very unfortunate.

Yes I think it’s #2 and he is afraid of the wrath of his wife!!

Who knows how long he has been with his wife and has told her he has been faithful to her forever.. she prob suspected and was vocal about it.. woman’s intuition…

Makes me wonder to if he is the one who got rid of this girl in order to save him marriage..

 

[madamx]

I came across This article. Look at the photos and the women in the photos. They have the identical look of this Jane Doe. From the hair the eyebrows, the shoes and slacks. The article is from 1983. So this was def a look from around that time.


Immortalising Mexican American gang members in 80s LA with tender portraits

 

[Friday Fan]

I came across This article. Look at the photos and the women in the photos. They have the identical look of this Jane Doe. From the hair the eyebrows, the shoes and slacks. The article is from 1983. So this was def a look from around that time.


Immortalising Mexican American gang members in 80s LA with tender portraits

VCJD's biggest clue are her shaved off and redrawn brows. Not only are they shaved off, they are redrawn 1/4 inch above her brow arch.
(Today, this is mimicked by drag queens and people with sharpies.)

However, it was a thing in East LA and was associated with the low rider culture.

Chicana Gang and Party Scene: 28 Amazing Portraits of Cholas and Cholos From the 1980s and 1990s ~ Vintage Everyday

15 Vintage Chola Beauty Photos for Inspiration

However, pinterest is full of old images and lots of brows...Go to google image search for "cholas los angeles" Click on the any of number of pinterest images. Many images on pinterest are from the 70s. Pinterest is an almost endless source of young women with those brows

(Don't know if source is OK) .
www.pinterest.com/pin/376332112589581564/

 

[AndTheCaseOf]

I don't think the baby's father is going to be any help if he honestly can't remember. I was really hoping this would be solved by now, but from what I've seen, I think testing is sparse for Mexican families. Not just for the cost, but maybe also the suspicion of what the governments will do with the information (or so I've been told).

I researched the eyebrows and that fits the time frame and location. In L.A. around 1975, the Chicano movement started to fade, and Cholo subculture picked up in the 1980s. It sounds like it was gang related soon after, but not exclusively. There may have also been some overlap with the punk movement. I think her family was in L.A. for at least a generation. Not just because of the eyebrows, but also the listed families and locations.

I was actually surprised when I saw VCJD's first set of names included my family name and their location for the last few hundred years, so I uploaded to GedMatch. I'm doubtful it will help, but we share a lot of cousin names from both lists. As a side note, the GedMatch calculator they used for her admixture combined with Oracle 4 is not great... for one thing, it skews to California and Brazil instead of Mexico.

I also went down a family search rabbit hole. Albina/Alvina's family has a few similarities. One descendant married a person from Ireland. Further down, a descendant married a person with Mexican and Guatemalan roots. They have also been in L.A. for a while after leaving Zacatecas. The differences being the names don't match what DDP has released and there's no Indigenous Californian link.

For anybody doing ancestry research, Mexico's records are pretty interesting if you have a location, name, and date to find the original scans. It's not uncommon to find grandparents listed in birth records. Sometimes the church would even go back decades later to birth records and add info in the margins, such as marriage info. And when family members got married, they often added ancestry back 2-3 generations to the record, even including aunts and uncles.

Also, the two last names carry parental information. For example, Ponciano's and Feliciana's children would traditionally be "Name Montellano Rojas". Father first, mother second. Their daughters would have children with Montellano last. Their son's children would have Montellano first and it would be passed on. Considering that there are 6 daughters to 1 son, chances are high that VCJD and her parent didn't inherit the Montellano name.

Sorry for the info overload. I really want to see this case solved, and for her loved ones to get her back.

 

[CarlK90245]

I also went down a family search rabbit hole. Albina/Alvina's family has a few similarities. One descendant married a person from Ireland. Further down, a descendant married a person with Mexican and Guatemalan roots. They have also been in L.A. for a while after leaving Zacatecas. The differences being the names don't match what DDP has released and there's no Indigenous Californian link.

I know which Irish family you are talking about. This surname was present in Zacatecas for several generations prior to the move to California. A few people who are descendants of Albina/Alvina are in GEDMatch, and although they do come up as matches to VJD, they don't come in as strongly as descendants of other Montellano siblings.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are numerous interweaving downlines that involve children of Cresencio Chavez and Maria Jesus Gonzalez marrying descendants of Ponciano and Feliciana. Their son Juan Chavez married Albina Montellano. Their daughter Atanacia Chavez married Gabriel Montellano, and their son Severo Chavez married Guadalupe Parga (granddaughter of Ponciano & Feliciana and daughter of Catarina Montellano & Martin Parga).

Martin Parga's parents (Aniceto Parga and Maria Jesus Lira) also have downlines (in addition to Martin) that tie in by marriage to the Montellano downlines)

(Edit to Add) I forgot to mention that Maria Jesus Lira and Cresencio Chavez are first cousins to each other.

 

[AndTheCaseOf]

I know which Irish family you are talking about. This surname was present in Zacatecas for several generations prior to the move to California. A few people who are descendants of Albina/Alvina are in GEDMatch, and although they do come up as matches to VJD, they don't come in as strongly as descendants of other Montellano siblings.

Another thing to keep in mind is that there are numerous interweaving downlines that involve children of Cresencio Chavez and Maria Jesus Gonzalez marrying descendants of Ponciano and Feliciana. Their son Juan Chavez married Albina Montellano. Their daughter Atanacia Chavez married Gabriel Montellano, and their son Severo Chavez married Guadalupe Parga (granddaughter of Ponciano / Feliciana and daughter of Catarina Montellano / Martin Parga).

Martin Parga's parents (Aniceto Parga and Maria Jesus Lira) also have downlines (in addition to Martin) that tie in by marriage to the Montellano downlines)

(Edit to Add) I forgot to mention that Maria Jesus Lira and Cresencio Chavez are first cousins to each other.

Thank you for that information! Now I see what they mean by "huge endogamy". Just so I'm clear, does that mean "Cresencio Chavez / Maria Jesus Gonzalez" and "Aniceto Parga / Maria Jesus Lira" could be direct ancestors of hers too? Or are they only related to the cousin matches?

I also noticed on her DNA Doe Project page that they don't include the first set of cousin names. Is the second list of families provided on the page their only focus now?

 

[CarlK90245]

Thank you for that information! Now I see what they mean by "huge endogamy". Just so I'm clear, does that mean "Cresencio Chavez / Maria Jesus Gonzalez" and "Aniceto Parga / Maria Jesus Lira" could be direct ancestors of hers too? Or are they only related to the cousin matches?

Yes, it is quite possible. especially Aniceto Parga / MJLira. There are some people in that community for whom Aniceto/MJL appear in four branches of their ancestry.

 

[CarlK90245]

I also noticed on her DNA Doe Project page that they don't include the first set of cousin names. Is the second list of families provided on the page their only focus now?

That first list of surnames preceded our realization that La Blanca was a very strong geographical point of interest. The second list of surnames (Aleman, Alvarez (or Alvarado), Arizmendi, Betancourt, Campos, Cuevas, Hernandez, Lara, Lira, Ortiz, Parga, Payan, Ramirez, Salazar, Sustayta, and Villareal) are more relevant to the Montellano downlines. We didn't include the Irish sounding surname previously alluded to, because we had already discounted the several generations of persons in SoCal from that family.

 

[Friday Fan]

I wonder how much effort was involved in trying to identify her in 1980?

She is beautiful in both the crime scene and embalmed photos. She has a distinct chin. Her grown out hair (what they call ombre now) also would have stood out.

She would have been easily recognized from the PM photos.

Did they check Los Angeles County? Her brows indicated she was probably from LA.

BTW: Chouest's 1977 rape victim was walking in Canoga Park on Topanga Canyon Blvd (Hwy 27) when Chouest offered her a ride. Canoga Park is not fair from Ventura County.
Chouest was obviously familiar with the Westlakes area.

Chouest was so deranged and evil. There must be more victims of his out there.