Cadaver dog hit on scent in DBs bedroom

[Sparklin]

Since a lot of people are leaning towards accidental death, if Lisa died on the bedroom floor, my first guess would be that something happened while DB & SB were outside drinking. The other 3 kids accidentally killed Lisa in the bedroom; therefore, the hit on the floor, SB & DB could have immediately went into cover up mode.

That thought has crossed my mind also. Then I think about the time line. If something happened while they were outside, when was it discovered? Sam spent another hour out front with Shane and so far as we know, Deb didn't come back out all freaked out...Not to mention the boys at least were old enough that they would have 'told' if there was something wrong with their baby sister...at least at this point. All moo.

 

[redheadedgal]

i stand by my post no matter how many links are posted to "refute"... everyone is entitled to their opinion :loser:


has anyone found any cases involving a cadaver dog hit and an alive baby??

 

[In da Middle]

We only know about the one hit because it was used on the search warrant affidavit. I don't think LE has ever told us if there were more hits or not. . .or anything about what was found in the house, other than what was in the affidavit.

but we do know what was NOT hit on. No beds, no floors, no furniture, no plumbing not anywhere one would expect anything dead to lie. And from our own dog experts, cadaver scent is VERY 'tracky' for lack of a better word and very soluble. In other words, a dog that his trained correctly should be able to pick up this scent as it travels throughout the house. This info comes from the inventory list. They have to list all that was taken to be used as evidence otherwise they take the very real chance it would be tossed by the judge.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Bump.

 

[redheadedgal]

anyone see this?

Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, said cadaver dogs are typically accurate.

"In studies done of cadaver dogs where the dog has direct access to the scent and it's reasonably fresh -- it's above 90 percent," he said.

The affidavit, released on Friday, revealed that a cadaver dog searching for evidence for missing the 11-month-old "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human" next to her mother's bed. (<---- tells me what the dog was "trained on")


http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822

 

[cityslick]

anyone see this?

Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant and former FBI special agent, said cadaver dogs are typically accurate.

"In studies done of cadaver dogs where the dog has direct access to the scent and it's reasonably fresh -- it's above 90 percent," he said.

The affidavit, released on Friday, revealed that a cadaver dog searching for evidence for missing the 11-month-old "indicated a positive 'hit' for the scent of a deceased human" next to her mother's bed. (<---- tells me what the dog was "trained on")


http://abcnews.go.com/US/baby-lisa-irwin-family-attorney-cadaver-dogs-misleading/story?id=14790822

BBM

In this case though, would the scent be 'reasonably fresh'? The dog searched on Oct. 17, almost 2 weeks after BL went missing.

 

[redheadedgal]

since he was interviewed re: (during, about etc) the LI case, i would think what he was referring to included the LI case...

 

[sarx]

Just glimpsing through, so forgive me if I've missed questions.

Yes, scent transfer does happen. Touch the deceased and touch something else and there ya go.

Is it possible for her to have died in the bath and then have scent in the drain from where the water was poured? Lots of variables, but the short answer is yes, it's a possibility.

2 weeks is fairly fresh, yes in terms of HRD dogs.

 

[KsStormy]

Yes, and even though the river looks close on a google map, it does not show you what all you have to go through to actually get to the water and be able to toss a baby in it in the dark, no less. The bridges have cameras also.

This is a pic of Riverfront Park, which is just a 10 min. drive from the home, just over the Chauteau Bridge...

I wonder if there are security cameras there? Here is a video that shows a good look of the neighborhood, & the proximity to the river.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJVTrODkCW0&feature=channel"]Lisa Irwin neighborhood - YouTube[/ame]

 

[In da Middle]

This is a pic of Riverfront Park, which is just a 10 min. drive from the home, just over the Chauteau Bridge...

I wonder if there are security cameras there? Here is a video that shows a good look of the neighborhood, & the proximity to the river.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJVTrODkCW0&feature=channel

She definitely did not walk to that. You also have to wind around after you cross the bridge to get there. So while it looks like it is right off of Chouteau Bridge on a map, in reality it is not. If you notice, you can't even see the bridge on that shot. It is further downstream in the direction the camera is facing' Look how far downstream you can see and still not see the bridge. Not even a hint of it.
FYI This is the exact area where the search and rescue teams went into the river that morning.

 

[KsStormy]

She definitely did not walk to that. You also have to wind around after you cross the bridge to get there. So while it looks like it is right off of Chouteau Bridge on a map, in reality it is not. If you notice, you can't even see the bridge on that shot. It is further downstream in the direction the camera is facing' Look how far downstream you can see and still not see the bridge. Not even a hint of it.
FYI This is the exact area where the search and rescue teams went into the river that morning.

Oh, I am certain she didn't walk anywhere. Was just pointing out that this area is a 10 minute drive from the home, right across the river - -curious if there are any cameras there.

Back to the cadaver/SAR dogs -- I believe it has been said that SAR searched the river about 2 miles downstream, anyone know this to be correct or incorrect..? Knowing how hard & fast the river was running , wonder why only 2 miles, if correct? My pic of Riverfront Park was from when I went there in November,or possibly early December? It wasn't running as fast as it was in early October.

 

[In da Middle]

Oh, I am certain she didn't walk anywhere. Was just pointing out that this area is a 10 minute drive from the home, right across the river - -curious if there are any cameras there.

Back to the cadaver/SAR dogs -- I believe it has been said that SAR searched the river about 2 miles downstream, anyone know this to be correct or incorrect..? Knowing how hard & fast the river was running , wonder why only 2 miles, if correct? My pic of Riverfront Park was from when I went there in November,or possibly early December? It wasn't running as fast as it was in early October.

A ten minute drive for somebody else as their cars are all accounted for.

I do know at one point when they were having illegal dumping issues there they had cameras. I do not know the current status though. And yes, BIG difference in the river levels and speed. Even 1 week after this there was a dramatic difference in the river as Corps of Engineers had just cut back their release just a few weeks before this happened. They were gradually cutting back the release levels and had not even got to normal release levels until after this happened. It takes 4 days from changes up there to see the effect down here.

 

[Truthwillsetufree]

A ten minute drive for somebody else as their cars are all accounted for.

I do know at one point when they were having illegal dumping issues there they had cameras. I do not know the current status though. And yes, BIG difference in the river levels and speed. Even 1 week after this there was a dramatic difference in the river as Corps of Engineers had just cut back their release just a few weeks before this happened. They were gradually cutting back the release levels and had not even got to normal release levels until after this happened. It takes 4 days from changes up there to see the effect down here.

BBM -I don't understand what "their cars are accounted for" implies. I don't think anyone has said their car is missing...unless I have misunderstood something.

 

[In da Middle]

BBM -I don't understand what "their cars are accounted for" implies. I don't think anyone has said their car is missing...unless I have misunderstood something.

People have been saying that it was possible for her to take one of their vehicles to transport a dead baby to the river. After the search where, it is stated in the search warrant that any and all vehicles were to be searched, presumably by the cadaver dogs that were there, all of the vehicles remained. If she transported a dead baby in one of their vehicles, the dogs should have alerted on it and then it taken as evidence. If the dogs hit on it they would have taken the vehicle as it would be a very major part of their case against her.
The car would be 'missing' if that happened.

 

[iamnotagolem]

Do you know if the police took the HRD dogs through the neighborhood to check for scents? Just wondering if the dogs hit on any of the neighbors vehicles or if any of them wereinvestigated besides the brandos. Like you've said many times most of the houses there are similar and most likely the people in that neighborhood who have had to climb in their own window would be equipped to climb into DB/JIs.

They would then only need to carry Lisa to the river or put her in their car and drive to where ever.

 

[In da Middle]

Do you know if the police took the HRD dogs through the neighborhood to check for scents? Just wondering if the dogs hit on any of the neighbors vehicles or if any of them wereinvestigated besides the brandos. Like you've said many times most of the houses there are similar and most likely the people in that neighborhood who have had to climb in their own window would be equipped to climb into DB/JIs.

They would then only need to carry Lisa to the river or put her in their car and drive to where ever.

We don't know what kind of dogs went through the neighborhood. It would have been nice to know. There were a LOT of dogs on many occasions! It was only in hindsight, after the search warrant was made public, that we even knew the dogs on the 17th were, in fact, cadaver dogs.

 

[redheadedgal]

IdM-- was the post below about the chouteau bridge that KsStormy refers to?

if yes, i think the bolded below is quite misleading... see post #526 by indepmo


Yes, and even though the river looks close on a google map, it does not show you what all you have to go through to actually get to the water and be able to toss a baby in it in the dark, no less. The bridges have cameras also.

 

[KsStormy]

Do you know if the police took the HRD dogs through the neighborhood to check for scents? Just wondering if the dogs hit on any of the neighbors vehicles or if any of them wereinvestigated besides the brandos. Like you've said many times most of the houses there are similar and most likely the people in that neighborhood who have had to climb in their own window would be equipped to climb into DB/JIs.

They would then only need to carry Lisa to the river or put her in their car and drive to where ever.

I am wondering if cadaver dogs would be able to detect a body that was transported in a vehicle inside a container for 3-10 minutes? I would suppose there are several factors to consider, such as type of container?

 

[Donjeta]

Just glimpsing through, so forgive me if I've missed questions.

Yes, scent transfer does happen. Touch the deceased and touch something else and there ya go.

Is it possible for her to have died in the bath and then have scent in the drain from where the water was poured? Lots of variables, but the short answer is yes, it's a possibility.

2 weeks is fairly fresh, yes in terms of HRD dogs.

If the scent transfers that easily, won't the HRD dogs alert in pretty much every house and vehicle in which the occupants once were in an open casket wake? Some people touch the cheek of the deceased and off you go, transferring the death smell to everything you touch, to the hands you shake, the wheel of your car etc.

 

[cityslick]

If the scent transfers that easily, won't the HRD dogs alert in pretty much every house and vehicle in which the occupants once were in an open casket wake? Some people touch the cheek of the deceased and off you go, transferring the death smell to everything you touch, to the hands you shake, the wheel of your car etc.

If they committed a crime after going to a wake, I don't see why it wouldn't transfer if you didn't somehow wash it off. One of the experts can answer better than me.