Cadaver dog hit on scent in DBs bedroom

[cityslick]

BBM

So Deborah's smart enough to get rid of her clothes because she knows that they have decomp scent on them but not smart enough to know that the scent would transfer from her clothes to the floor. I guess you do need contradictions like that to make things fit.

Bed head hair? So we have evidence of DB's guilt because she brushed her hair? MOO.

Keep in mind she's making all these kinds of decisions with at least a good amount of alcohol in her.

 

[KsStormy]

Keep in mind she's making all these kinds of decisions with at least a good amount of alcohol in her.

We don't know that to be a fact, a sobriety test was never released to the public.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

No, I do not believe she is smart at all;I believe she is just evil, manipulative & lucky, SO FAR.

MOO

So your saying that DB getting rid of her clothes was pure luck and not her having the knowledge about HRD dogs and their abilities? That's a convenient way to explain things that don't quite fit. MOO.

 

[KsStormy]

So your saying that DB getting rid of her clothes was pure luck and not her having the knowledge about HRD dogs and their abilities? That's a convenient way to explain things that don't quite fit. MOO.

I am saying that not getting arrested YET is pure luck, that & having the Missouri river less than 2 minutes drive away. I have every confidence that Lisa will get justice, eventually.

 

[4Jacy]

We don't know that to be a fact, a sobriety test was never released to the public.

Was there one even taken? IF DB really were drunk enough to pass out, LE would have smelled it and given her one. Obviously, I trust nothing either DB/JI says or does.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I am saying that not getting arrested YET is pure luck, that & having the Missouri river less than 2 minutes drive away. I have every confidence that Lisa will get justice, eventually.

I thought that we were talking about decomp scent on DB's clothes. If DB's clothes had decomp scent on them and she used the car to transport Lisa to the river, then why didn't the HRD dogs hit on the car?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Was there one even taken? IF DB really were drunk enough to pass out, LE would have smelled it and given her one. Obviously, I trust nothing either DB/JI says or does.

This is another thing that I see contradictions from people who believe DDI. Sometimes she's described as a horrible mother for drinking while she was supposed to be caring for Lisa and may have accidentally killed her. Then if it's pointed out that she was drunk and how that could interfere with her killing Lisa and perpetrating a coverup she's no longer drunk. MOO.

 

[Whisperer]

I think Lisa was packaged in the bedroom. She was wrapped in plastic and taped...as evidenced by the clicking noises the boys heard. As stated previously, 3M tape (at least) makes a clicking sound when being used. I couldn't believe the clicking sound when I was using tape last year. Remember the boys heard a "clicking" sound.

LE found the clothes Lisa was wearing earlier...at least the description DB gave of them.

If properly packaged and quickly disposed, I doubt there would be much scent in the vehicle. I think something significant was placed in the dumpster near the house and burned.

 

[KsStormy]

I agree. And if a "coffin" of sorts (say a large metal toolbox) was utilized, the scent wouldn't likely escape, in the mad dash (1.5 minute?) to the river...

 

[Whisperer]

We don't even know if she was drunk. To believe she was, we would have to believe what DB is feeding the public. She could have killed her during a black-out. She started talking about being blacked out and then was told (I assume) to keep quiet...since that would make her ripe for murder.

She then tells the public she was just drunk and this is supposed to get her off the hook for leaving lights on and having a kitty in her bed. She then tells us she recalls talking to her boys @ 10:30pm but can't recall if she saw Lisa.

These attempts at an alibi were all created by her and her defense team to plant seeds of a stranger entering and not being heard because she was passed out drunk. Either way her BF should have been totally pizzed for her not taking care of the baby. Hence, he wasn't mad at all. This behavior flies in the face of innocence regarding his daughter's death. It is my opinion that no one would forgive or forget the person who loses their child. He and ron cummings are the two exceptions that we have seen in this type of case...and we all know about rc.

There is so much about the parents that flies in the face of reason and it always surprises me that there are people willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. That is what makes the world go round, I am told.

 

[cityslick]

Well we know that she was drinking. We know that because I don't believe it's been disproven via SB. Also, Shane did say that he could tell 'they had been drinking' when he saw the women on the porch.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Well we know that she was drinking. We know that because I don't believe it's been disproven via SB. Also, Shane did say that he could tell 'they had been drinking' when he saw the women on the porch.

The main reason why I think that DB is telling the truth about drinking that night is because she is seen on a surveillance video buying wine early that evening. In my opinion she bought it to drink that night with her friend SB and not to save it for the future.

If she bought the wine as some sort of premeditated ruse and didn't really drink any of it she screwed up by saying that she drank it with a witness. Does that mean that SB agreed to lie about the drinking? What would be her motive to lie and help to cover up a murder? MOO

 

[tlcya]

When it was first announced by mom that she was drinking, and video first surfaced of the infamous box of wine, it was widely cited as proof that she was a negligent mother and probably killed her child.

Now her being blotto is not a fact because it doesn't fit the current theory about why a cadaver dog supposedly hit in the bedroom.

Huh. Interesting.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I think Lisa was packaged in the bedroom. She was wrapped in plastic and taped...as evidenced by the clicking noises the boys heard. As stated previously, 3M tape (at least) makes a clicking sound when being used. I couldn't believe the clicking sound when I was using tape last year. Remember the boys heard a "clicking" sound.

LE found the clothes Lisa was wearing earlier...at least the description DB gave of them.

If properly packaged and quickly disposed, I doubt there would be much scent in the vehicle. I think something significant was placed in the dumpster near the house and burned.

BBM
The clothes that LE found and removed from the home were described as "purple shorts and a multi-color Disney character shirt". The clothes that are said to be the ones that Lisa was last seen in are described as "purple pants and a purple shirt with kittens on it.

http://media2.nbcactionnews.com/NWT/pdf/20111021_irwinwarrant.pdf

http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

 

[Donjeta]

JMO, there are degrees of drunk. If people pass out early in the evening they would have obvious difficulties in covering up a death while comatose but one may certainly drink wine to the extent that one is visibly tipsy and perhaps a little careless and negligent leading to fatal accidents but yet able to do something to CYA in a panic. That sort of thing wouldn't necessarily constitute an alibi imo. Lots of people have attempted to cover up stuff that happened while they were intoxicated.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

JMO, there are degrees of drunk. If people pass out early in the evening they would have obvious difficulties in covering up a death while comatose but one may certainly drink wine to the extent that one is visibly tipsy and perhaps a little careless and negligent leading to fatal accidents but yet able to do something to CYA in a panic. That sort of thing wouldn't necessarily constitute an alibi imo. Lots of people have attempted to cover up stuff that happened while they were intoxicated.

I can agree that being drunk could contribute to causing an accidental death. But I also believe that being drunk would impair DB's ability to cover up that death. That's why I see some problems with this line of thinking. She's drunk enough to kill Lisa accidentally but not so drunk to be able to cover up that death and dispose of her without any trace. MOO.

 

[Donjeta]

I can agree that being drunk could contribute to causing an accidental death. But I also believe that being drunk would impair DB's ability to cover up that death. That's why I see some problems with this line of thinking. She's drunk enough to kill Lisa accidentally but not so drunk to be able to cover up that death and dispose of her without any trace. MOO.

I don't see why. I just don't. *shrug* I don't subscribe to the theory that you have to be completely unable to do anything if you are drunk enough to have something-or-other end up badly. It seems awfully black and white and contrary to my experience with drunk people. It's a bit of a hit and miss but sometimes drunk people do manage to carry out a task. Anyway, if something happened early on there was some time to sober up and there could have been someone who was more sober to help out.

Do we know for a fact that if DB did it she covered up a death and disposed of her without any trace? Have they released all the evidence?

Anyway, what are the traces that would need covering up? If she died without lots of bloodshed there could have been few traces left to clean up in the house to begin with, and hiding the body of a dead a baby is a lot easier than hiding the corpse of an adult.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I don't see why. I just don't. *shrug* I don't subscribe to the theory that you have to be completely unable to do anything if you are drunk enough to have something-or-other end up badly. It seems awfully black and white and contrary to my experience with drunk people. It's a bit of a hit and miss but sometimes drunk people do manage to carry out a task. Anyway, if something happened early on there was some time to sober up and there could have been someone who was more sober to help out.

Do we know for a fact that if DB did it she covered up a death and disposed of her without any trace? Have they released all the evidence?

Anyway, what are the traces that would need covering up? If she died without lots of bloodshed there could have been few traces left to clean up in the house to begin with, and hiding the body of a dead a baby is a lot easier than hiding the corpse of an adult.

I didn't say that her being drunk would make her "complexly unable to do anything". I said impaired. That's what alcohol does to you.

So your saying that DB was drunk early in the evening drinking with SB, accidentally killed Lisa without SB knowing and then later sobered up enough to dispose of her body. That's a bit of a stretch to me. And when we have to start using conspiracy's to make things fit I begin having some doubts.

Your right is saying we don't know what evidence LE has. But we know that it's not enough to declare Lisa dead and arrest someone for it. For all we know LE could have evidence that supports an intruder. I'm just looking at things from what we do know. MOO.

 

[Donjeta]

I didn't say that her being drunk would make her "complexly unable to do anything". I said impaired. That's what alcohol does to you.

So your saying that DB was drunk early in the evening drinking with SB, accidentally killed Lisa without SB knowing and then later sobered up enough to dispose of her body. That's a bit of a stretch to me. And when we have to start using conspiracy's to make things fit I begin having some doubts.

Your right is saying we don't know what evidence LE has. But we know that it's not enough to declare Lisa dead and arrest someone for it. For all we know LE could have evidence that supports an intruder. I'm just looking at things from what we do know. MOO.

She would have to be completely unable to do anything for us to use her intoxicated state as an alibi that says she couldn't have done anything. I think that we will find that people who are merely impaired do cover things up more or less successfully all the time, sometimes even in cooperation or "conspiracy", if you want to call it that, with some other people who also have a stake in covering things up.

There are several cases on WS where I suspect this is exactly what happened but LE haven't been able to prove a thing.

How drunk do you think a person has to be in order that something bad may happen to a baby? Just a small accident, or loss of temper? Do you have to be nearly comatose in order for that to happen. I don't think so.
Sometimes just a bit tipsy might do it. I don't think it would be a stretch at all to sober up within a few hours at all. We do know for a fact that alcohol gets metabolized in our systems.

I think this reasoning that says if you're drunk you're innocent is a bit of a stretch.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

She would have to be completely unable to do anything for us to use her intoxicated state as an alibi that says she couldn't have done anything. I think that we will find that people who are merely impaired do cover things up more or less successfully all the time, sometimes even in cooperation or "conspiracy", if you want to call it that, with some other people who also have a stake in covering things up.

There are several cases on WS where I suspect this is exactly what happened but LE haven't been able to prove a thing.

Your misusing the word "alibi". An alibi is a defense where someone proves that there elsewhere when a crime is committed. That's not what I'm trying to say. All that I am trying to say is that DB being drunk that night is a factor in her ability to get away with a crime some people believe that she committed. Everyone is free to minimize what effect alcohol may have played in this case. But I don't think that it should be ignored.

As for the problem that I have with conspiracy's in this case, I have a hard time in understanding what "stakes" a friend or family member would have to make them feel it necessary to help cover up Lisa's death and depose of her body. MOO