cadaver dog hits in Irwin home~search warrant served on family home #5

[HatesSociopaths]

I never buy an accident theory when a child is missing .I've stated it so often I finally had to put it in my siggie. :banghead:
Parents hide their children,instead of getting help,when they inflict harm deliberately. If the child dies as a result,that's not an accident.JMO

It was your posts on this from day 1 that helped me grasp this truth and modify my theory to murder. Thanks for your input.

:seeya:

 

[marge_rita]

Dear God...could her body be in the Starbucks where Jeremy was working? We're they pouring concrete there, putting up new walls or was it just electrical work? I think someone needs to find out.

thud :maddening:

 

[epiphany]

I wonder where Baby Lisa's crib blanket is? Personally, I don't believe the "cars themed blanket" is Lisa's.

 

[not_my_kids]

Bye, bye fence. No doubt in my mind now. Accident or not, I'm pretty sure I know who's responsible, and it's not a phone stealing phantom intruder. Either something happened accidentally and mom covered it up, or Lisa was injured before Jeremy left, like while Deborah was at the store, and died of those injuries later that night. But to me, it's obvious, one or both of them, most likely Deborah, IMO, is responsible.

 

[matou]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3221138/cadaver-dog-has-hit-inside-house.html



discuss here

omg.....just finding out now and have not read this thread at all, only the opening post. Did she crush her baby in bed? Shake her baby? The "intruder" did not kill baby Lisa in the mother's bedroom, no way. omg....

 

[curiositycat]

I am just awakening from an afternoon nap--what a jolt to the senses to read about this latest news. I am way behind and trying desperately to catch up.

Oriah, little Lisa is less than a year old. When pregnant women go into labor, sometimes their "water breaks." If a Debbie's water were to break while standing on that rug, or even if she was dribbling amniotic fluids as she went into labor, would this cause a "hit" by the dogs?

I would not think so, because of the fact that even if LI had not been born, she was still a live baby. I am no expert, but it doesn't make sense to me that the cadaver dogs would hit on death in that situation. :innocent:

 

[Kat]

Wouldn't there have to be bodily fluids for the dogs to hit? I mean, a smothered baby....what fluids would there be...would she have had to be there long?

If she had some sort of accident, for instance, and crawled over but couldn't get drunk mom's attention, she could have died on the floor unnoticed for hours?

One of our verfied dog searchers would have to answer this but there are threads on the KC subforum dedicated to how soon dogs can pick up scent of a deceased body and if IIRC it is within minutes that the body starts to produce the chemicals of decomp that the dogs hit on.

I'll see if I can find the threads. That's a mighty big subforum though. JMHO

 

[sarx]

Sarx? Oriah? other dog handlers?

csst.org article, as Wishbone ref'd above, also said:

"... not choosing from a lineup of actual human tissue,
but only from gauze pads for which great care has been taken to
expose them only to dry skin regions, not to any blood or perceivable body fluids...."

Dogs at this sheriff's dept were tested w. a "line-up" of 3 gauze pads:
---one exposed to post-mortem scent,
---one exposed to live human scent
---one simply unwrapped from package.
They graded cadaver dogs on alerting on the P/M scent.

Question:
Does this mean, for Baby Lisa, even if -
---she did not bleed while laying on the floor, and
---left no perceivable (decomp?) bodily fluid there,

that cavader dogs c/ still have a valid hit or alert there

as long as she had bn on floor for say, a couple hours, per that study?

If Baby Lisa is gone, I hope --
---w. canine help, her remains are located;
---abilities of these wonderful dogs
and their dedicated trainers is recognized and upheldin court.

Thanks in adv. to our expert canine trainers and handlers.

The short answer, yes. And a body does not have to be there for a couple of hours, the timeline can be much much shorter.
What is held up in court largely depends on how thorough and accurate training and case work logs are.

 

[dizzychick]

There are alcoholics who function very well. It's one of the ways people with drinking problems convince themselves they are fine and normal and can keep drinking as they do.

They hold jobs, keep a clean house, feed the kids - but they still drink and drink to excess to dull their emotions.

I dont think that they would tell the judge that. He had to sign the search warrant. It has to be true. moo

I kinda sorta thought after George Bush signed the Patriot Act the cops carry around blank warrants all the time, I know it prolly should only be related to terroists type acts but the general idea with the lawyers I know say they have a free ride to do just about anytghing they want now. Dont know if it applies here as we were told a judge or magistrate was involved but I know for a fact cops have lied to get affidavits or warrants signed before, at least in my neck of the woods it has happened. Funny the totally different perspective you get when you know criminal defense lawyers LOL


sorry for the double quote I only ment to quote the seond poster.

 

[vasportsmom]

So the dogs alerted on Oct 17, and the 17 hour search was on the following day. I know that there was thought that the walls, etc, were being xrayed.

Now who would know where wall cavities were and how to access them without tearing out the walls?

Oooh, maybe an electrician?

I am the daughter, sister and niece of many electricians. I am married to an electrical engineer...There are NO limit to the number of the "hidey-holes" they know about and have access to. My dad (RIP) and both brothers had serious drug issues when I was growing up and it was nothing for LE to search the house from top to bottom, find nothing and then my dad be pulling crap out of walls within minutes.

 

[luckyme]

iirc the starbucks was a remodel/rewiring job

(now to find a link to that in timeline may take a bit)

I think there would still be a camera in the starbucks either way. I cant remember which show i saw it on. I think JVM. where police had him on camera working that night. :seeya:

 

[illinialum]

Dear God...could her body be in the Starbucks where Jeremy was working? We're they pouring concrete there, putting up new walls or was it just electrical work? I think someone needs to find out.

I don't have a link (and I'm already multi-tasking WebSleuths with work!), but I recall reading that he was working on an existing Starbucks. I remember watching a TV blip where they showed the Starbucks, and thinking, "man, that looks like a Starbucks I've been to in KC... wonder if it's the same one..."

 

[Velouria]

Is DB having something to do with the baby's death and then maybe trying to bury the baby really an outlandish crazy insane theory at this point?

Of course, I do agree LE should be held to different standards than us. I feel like they have done a good job to be honest. They have pursued other leads and sightings at the same time as aggressively pursued issues with the original story and house.

Just for the record, I'm still on the fence, but I agree Darcyline - with all the twists and turns and revised statements, I'm open to that "outlandish, crazy, insane" theory, along with others.

We're all here voicing our OPINIONS on the case. "Innocent until proven guilty" is the standard in a court of law, not the court of opinion.

That said, I still don't know WHAT to think, and am anxious to see what LE can turn up with this search warrant.

 

[believe09]

The short answer, yes. And a body does not have to be there for a couple of hours, the timeline can be much much shorter.
What is held up in court largely depends on how thorough and accurate training and case work logs are.

:seeya: Could the dog have made a hit if it were urine on the carpet? TIA...

 

[tink92]

i still don't think mom is involved...would i bet myhouse on it..no way. The fact is none of us have any evidence of anything at the moment...my gut tells me mom is not involved but my gut could be wrong.

 

[natsound]

Wouldn't there have to be bodily fluids for the dogs to hit? I mean, a smothered baby....what fluids would there be...would she have had to be there long?

If she had some sort of accident, for instance, and crawled over but couldn't get drunk mom's attention, she could have died on the floor unnoticed for hours?

I remember during the Caylee case, experts were talking about how gases emit pretty quickly after someone dies. Dogs can just smell death... some can even smell it before a person dies.

 

[RT51]

Wouldn't there have to be bodily fluids for the dogs to hit? I mean, a smothered baby....what fluids would there be...would she have had to be there long?

If she had some sort of accident, for instance, and crawled over but couldn't get drunk mom's attention, she could have died on the floor unnoticed for hours?

Dogs hit on gases emitted from the body. Fluids are an added bonus.

 

[luckyme]

I am the daughter, sister and niece and many electricians. I am married to an electrical engineer...There are NO limit to the number of the "hidey-holes" they know about and have access to. My dad (RIP) and both brothers had serious drug issues when I was growing up and it was nothing for LE to search the house from top to bottom, find nothing and then my dad be pulling crap out of walls within minutes.

Thats why they took exrays of the walls in the house. moo

 

[TotallyObsessed]

I didn't think it was possible but I dislike D as much as I dislike FCA.

hoh::bricks:

That's a tall order to fill. I'm not there yet.....

 

[sorrell skye]

The affidavit also revealed: "Investigative interviews with the people involved revealed conflicting information for clear direction in the investigation. Bradley made the statement she did not initially look for her baby behind the house because she 'was afraid of what she might find.'"
by Brian Foster - KMBC.com 2:58 PM


Read more: http://livewire.kmbc.com/Event/Live_Blog_Amber_Alert_Issued_For_Missing_10-Month-Old#ixzz1bRq6ZQ9u

Afraid of what she might find???

DB apparently made this statement to LE in the early hours of the investigation.

If DB was not involved in Baby Lisa's disappearance (and now possible death), I see no reason why she would be afraid to "look for her baby behind the house".

If I woke up to discover my baby missing, I'd search the house as well as the front yard & the back yard - in the hope of finding her. I would probably think that she had somehow gotten out of her crib and somehow crawled somewhere (especially if I was claiming the front door was unlocked due to my drunken stupor). My first thought would not be "she's been kidnapped". My first thought would be - she's around here somewhere - she HAS to be.

I would NOT be afraid of looking in the backyard.

That is, unless I had something to do with her *disappearance* and I wanted the investigation to focus on a kidnapper.