cadaver dog hits in Irwin home~search warrant served on family home #5

[Geralyn]

The only thing that I don't understand about the diabolical muder theory is that she has 2 older children, with no previous indications of abuse. Why would she want to kill this little one and not the 2 before? Would it be because Lisa was a girl?

That was speculated to be the case in the Paula Sims case, gender related murder of her daughters, while her son remained unharmed. (she later claimed PPD after hearing about it in prison) So I guess it happens?
*answer not to be construed as agreeing wtih the diabolical murder or gender based incident whatsoever*

 

[josie1986]

I don't know if LE could but what about CPS? The mother admits to be drunk after all when one child "disappeared." Shouldn't CPS interview the other two to make sure they are not in danger?

if LE bring CPS in would they need permission from DB/JI to speak to the boys?

i agree,i thought CPS would have been involved from the minute she admitted being so drunk she could have blacked out.

we had a horrible case in the UK i think it was a couple of years ago involving social services (CPS) where a beautiful little boy died at the hands of his parents (intensionally not accidently) after social services had been to the home and checked everything out and left saying the environment was safe for baby P.
your always better being safe than sorry if u think a child could be in danger JMO

 

[liz b.]

If JI was not involved in Lisa's death, I wonder what the reasons are for him to cover for someone in the death of his baby girl ??? Why would he want to over for DB ? If Db was involved in Lisa's death ? It just makes no sense at all... MOO

I picture him coming home...if he really was unaware of what had happened at that point, I can only imagine his shock,horror and confusion.. MOO Running around,making sure nothing incriminating is lying around, ,trying to fix the cover story in his head... IMO there are really only a couple of reasons that a father would help in the cover up of the death his baby daughter...MOO

 

[sarx]

Sarx if someone died in that house say 15 yrs ago would one of these dogs still hit on it?

Possibly yes. But, and this is a BIG but, as a handler you can tell generally what your dog is hitting on, be it old or fresh. Their reaction is different.
The use of dogs is certainly part science based, but there is also a huge "science" to reading a dog. This is why dogs and handlers are teams, and generally you can't just pass your dog off to someone else to work even to another experienced handler. Reading a dog is huge, it is very reliable, it is part of why documentation is so critical. There are patterns and as long as they are consistent and you are consistent and thorough about documenting them they will hold up. Maybe your dog gets visibly more energetic on a fresh scent, maybe it pulls up a paw, maybe it circles 3 times, maybe it flops down on one side.... The handler know what it means.

 

[elfie]

Honestly, I think she forgot her in the tub and went into a panic. There have been multiple cases lately of people being convicted for letting their child drown unattended in a tub. Hence the clothing still in the home. The hit on the carpet may be from her trying to revive Lisa. JMO

I was wondering about this in the beginning, too. I waver between cold medicine and the bath, but if she wasn't really drunk I don't think she would have left her alone in the bath. At this point if Lisa is truly gone, I still want to think that it was the result of an accident, under circumstances that DB would not want to be associated with.

911 is always the best bet with an accident, though...

 

[tiredblondy]

Fascinating information about Cadaver dogs in this link n/t posted yesterday.

Believe and any others wondering about the dogs you gotta read this

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...es-835047.html

 

[21merc7]

I'm just repeating what Forgey, testified to. According to him, a dog could hit on a decomposing drop of human blood that came from a living person. That's what he said. I personally don't have a clue.

ETA: Just saw your edit. Perhaps FBI cadaver dogs are trained differently, I don't know.

He did say that, it would be in the transcripts from the Anthony trial, or if the person asking wants to watch, it would be in the videos. Just look for Forgey's testimony.

 

[Lucylu7]

Cadaver dogs,tape,missing child,Casey Anthony you're about to be replaced in the spotlight by DB

 

[Bon]

**GRAPHIC ALERT FOR THOSE THAT ARE SENSITIVE**

When you die you are immediately starting to decompose. Scent is immediate (maybe not to humans, we may not notice for a few minutes). It may begin even a few minutes before if oxygen is already depleted from extremities or organs.

I sat right next to my Dad for over 2 hrs waiting for the funeral home to pick up his body and like you stated, I didn't notice any "odor" at all.........

 

[jjenny]

Possibly yes. But, and this is a BIG but, as a handler you can tell generally what your dog is hitting on, be it old or fresh. Their reaction is different.
The use of dogs is certainly part science based, but there is also a huge "science" to reading a dog. This is why dogs and handlers are teams, and generally you can't just pass your dog off to someone else to work even to another experienced handler. Reading a dog is huge, it is very reliable, it is part of why documentation is so critical. There are patterns and as long as they are consistent and you are consistent and thorough about documenting them they will hold up. Maybe your dog gets visibly more energetic on a fresh scent, maybe it pulls up a paw, maybe it circles 3 times, maybe it flops down on one side.... The handler know what it means.

What about blood? If somebody bled on that carpet while being alive, would a dog indicate that spot as coming from a dead person?

 

[tiredblondy]

I don't think it's been confirmed that the shorts and shirt collected during the search warrant were the same items she was reportedly wearing the last time she was seen. IMO, I think it wouldn't be uncommon for a baby girl to have more than one pair of purple shorts. IIRC, the clothing she was wearing when she was last seen was a pair of purple shorts and a t-shirt with kittens on the front of it. The items collected during the search warrant were a pair of purple shorts and a "multi-color Disney character shirt".

Maybe it was the last outfit she was wearing when seen by someone other than DB and JI?

 

[sarx]

**GRAPHIC ALERT FOR THOSE THAT ARE SENSITIVE**

When you die you are immediately starting to decompose. Scent is immediate (maybe not to humans, we may not notice for a few minutes). It may begin even a few minutes before if oxygen is already depleted from extremities or organs.

This is so important I think it should be repeated!

 

[LadyL]

Just got home & read the title of this thread. I'm feeling ill now. Poor baby Lisa. I guess this answers the questions of why the 'mother' doesn't ever want to live there again.

 

[MamaK]

The only thing that I don't understand about the diabolical muder theory is that she has 2 older children, with no previous indications of abuse. Why would she want to kill this little one and not the 2 before? Would it be because Lisa was a girl?

That's what I don't understand either. The oldest boy is actually JI's. One would think that JI's son would be the one in the biggest danger of harm from DB.

My Mom's a psychiatric nurse practitioner who specializes in children. According to her, often times, non-parental caregivers become resentful when they "have to take care of somebody else's kid." As a step-mom myself, I don't agree with that but, hey, some people are :crazy:.

 

[Jacie Estes]

I'm just repeating what Forgey, testified to. According to him, a dog could hit on a decomposing drop of human blood that came from a living person. That's what he said. I personally don't have a clue.

ETA: Just saw your edit. Perhaps FBI cadaver dogs are trained differently, I don't know.

I'm wondering if menstrual blood would hit.

 

[Cortne]

Big thanks to the dog experts.

 

[21merc7]

This is so important I think it should be repeated!

Thanks, I added the examples of natural death and molecular break down before opposed to car accident and break down only starting at that moment. Probably made it more confusing. :crazy:

 

[LadyPirate]

I posted this on the Man carrying Baby in Diaper thread, but thought I would throw it out here too. This just hurts me so bad to think that parents would hurt their child. I'm hanging on to the fence still, not wanting to believe they did something to this child............

Maybe somebody else stopped by to have a drink or two with Mom. Somebody that did something to the baby after Mom passed out....Maybe Mom really doesn't know where the child is, but I bet she has a good idea WHO took the child. But why wouldn't she tell that? She's already made herself look bad to the public. What more would something like this add?

 

[AlmostGone]

Do we know how long Lisa's mom was on anxiety meds? Maybe her dosage was off? Do we know if she was under psychiatric care because of the type of medication?

 

[tiredblondy]

What about blood? If somebody bled on that carpet while being alive, would a dog indicate that spot as coming from a dead person?

Fascinating information about Cadaver dogs in this link n/t posted yesterday.

Believe and any others wondering about the dogs you gotta read this

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...es-835047.html

Jjenny, the article above might help.