cadaver dog hits in Irwin home~search warrant served on family home #5

[frankie069]

Fluids coming out of a dead body smell different (for a variety of reasons) than fluids coming out of a live body. It's part of why the deceased start to smell differently even to us after a short time. For a dog it's just much much faster as they have way better noses.

If the blood came out of a living person and ends up on a band-aid or a pad, it still doesn't smell the same. The chemical make up started different.

I just wanted to personally thank you for all your posts on this subject. I know I said once before that where I used to work, they trained a lot of these dogs, the ones at my job were being trained for explosives only but it was so interesting. The handlers took such great care of their dogs and took their dogs home, they truly were their dogs, they got to know every single sign their dogs made. Fascinating stuff. Thanks again for answering all the questions being thrown your way. Is so appreciated.

 

[luckyme]

Just announced on Foxnews, On Judge Jeanie show tonight she'll have a body expert on to go over DB and JI body language during their interviews

Is she on tonight? what time? TIA

 

[tiredblondy]

Fascinating information about Cadaver dogs in this link n/t posted yesterday.

Believe and any others wondering about the dogs you gotta read this

[URL="http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...es-835047.html"]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...es-835047.html[/URL]

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This thread is moving sooooo fast I'm going to bump up again because there's so many questions about the dogs. :bump:

 

[natsound]

If JI was not involved in Lisa's death, I wonder what the reasons are for him to cover for someone in the death of his baby girl ??? Why would he want to over for DB ? If Db was involved in Lisa's death ? It just makes no sense at all... MOO

I picture him coming home...if he really was unaware of what had happened at that point, I can only imagine his shock,horror and confusion.. MOO Running around,making sure nothing incriminating is lying around, ,trying to fix the cover story in his head... IMO there are really only a couple of reasons that a father would help in the cover up of the death his baby daughter...MOO

It is not uncommon for family to stick together.. at least in the beginning. My opinion is that JI just "can't go there", in other words, he can't imagine in his worst nightmare that his wife caused the death of their child. I don't think JI was involved.

 

[JeannaT]

Sorry if this has been stated already, but did the dog hit on the floor of the parents bedroom or the bed? My understanding was that it was the bed and bedding itself.

A part of the carpet near Deborah's bed.

 

[HatesSociopaths]

LOL, oh good, wasn't sure if it was or not. Oriah and I had a long conversation about this yesterday. Sometimes it can be really hard to break it down in a way that makes sense to those not living in a sar dog world, lol.

Thank you very much to you both.

How difficult is it for a defense attorney to dispute the hit the dog made?

 

[TheDuchess]

OK-this latest news has me teetering on the fence now. I really had this gut all along that the mom is completely innocent. That said, just a fair warning to some of you (only because I have been warned) that we cannot sleuth minors.

 

[Patty G]

I'm wondering if menstrual blood would hit.

Menstrual blood is from an live person.

 

[meowmo]

****GROSSNESS AHEAD... SKIP IF SQUEAMISH*****

I'm looking forward to an answer from those in the know as to how long a death scnt can remain in a home/carpet/floor before no longer being detectable. (in other words, can the cadaver dog(s) have hit on an old death in the home?)

Can't answer the portion of the question that is specific to cadaver dogs, but as a person who works in the funeral industry, I can definitley attest to the fact that the "death" smell is a CLINGER... it can remain in carpet/furniture/upholstery for YEARS and be detected by the human nose. Even if the decomposition isn't very severe... but as someone said upthread, we're talking decomp that has progressed past a couple of hours. In my experience, you start to get an aroma after about 5-6 hours. Even embalmed bodies will start to smell after a couple of weeks if unrefrigerated.

 

[LancelotLink]

I remember cadaver dogs hitting on a dumpster in Halieghs case, come to find out it was a used sanitary pad or a bandaide?? anyome remember??

I remember this and we google mapped it. Seems like IIRC, the dumpster was directly across the street from where Ron was camped out. I always thought they did this to shake some trees. Or shake his tree...

 

[Lera213]

Reading through the search warrant, I'm really perplexed about the rolls of tape and tape dispenser. Seems a common every day item, so what did LE find that would lead them to think..."aha! Tape dispenser!" ? Not like they have a body wrapped in tape, or weapon with tape on it. So...what gives with the tape/tape dispenser, I wonder?

I'm going to take a wild guess...the reported rumor of LE showing her burnt clothes. Perhaps they bundled them up, placed tape around it and last minute decided to burn the clothes, tape remained on the clothes that didn't get entirely burnt.

 

[Patty G]

Do we know how long Lisa's mom was on anxiety meds? Maybe her dosage was off? Do we know if she was under psychiatric care because of the type of medication?

She was on Effexlor (sp)

 

[frankie069]

Reading through the search warrant, I'm really perplexed about the rolls of tape and tape dispenser. Seems a common every day item, so what did LE find that would lead them to think..."aha! Tape dispenser!" ? Not like they have a body wrapped in tape, or weapon with tape on it. So...what gives with the tape/tape dispenser, I wonder?

I wonder if it is possible that the tape was used to wrap Lisa with (God, bad memories) and by DB touching her dead daughter, then the tape and dispenser , is it possible she transferred the smell of decomp onto the tape itself?? Maybe ??

 

[josie1986]

if someone died in that room previous to JI moving in and he had the capretting replaced would the decomp still be detected (in the actual flooring under the carpet) by the dog or would the scent have left with the carpet?

sarx,thanks for all the info.....really helpful to have people around that have experience in areas like this

 

[21merc7]

I have all the videos from the expert testimonys regarding search dogs, decomp smell etc., in the Casey Anthony case for reference.

You are a whiz at grabbing those videos! We really can't thank you enough for all of your work. Amazing!

Do you ever purge them? Or you just knew these would be needed again?

Either way, thank you again, we don't tell you enough. :blowkiss:

 

[Patty G]

The dogs hit on a scent ON THE FLOOR, not the bedding on the bed.

 

[sarx]

I also need to add, yet again, that not all dogs and more importantly dog training is created equal, there are some dogs out there working (not NASAR certified I might add) that will probably hit on just about anything.

THESE DOGS ARE NOT OF THAT GROUP!!!

There have been far too many cases in recent years that have really hosed the credibility of dogs, and rightfully so, and it is making it real hard on the good ones. I have come out more than once and called out bad work when I feel it is there. I will never blindly defend simply because they are in my field and we are a part of some "family". I am not a blind defender of LE either despite the fact that many near and dear to me are in LE, I was in LE, and I believe strongly in what they do. So, please, for those of you who don't know me, know this.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I am not off the fence yet. I read a whole lot of media that indicated this couple were devoted to their children and happy.

Consuming alcohol does not make someone more likely to kill their child. JMVHO.

I think it does. Alcohol can change a person 100%. Lot's of stories about mean drunks coming home and beating their kids. How the kids hated to see the parent come home drunk because they knew what was going to happen.

 

[natsound]

Can anything else besides a dead body cause a "hit"?

I think we've all determined that well-trained cadaver dogs will only hit on cadavers, and that's why they are so useful in investigations.

 

[MamaK]

A part of the carpet near Deborah's bed.

It was actually the floor near DB's bed.