CANADA - 3 dead including gunman, 12 injured in Greektown shooting, Toronto, July 2018

[glamourkitty1922]

In Canada it’d be a conflict of interest for “the government” to become directly involved in criminal cases including this one. If you’re that unaware of the role of “the government” versus the structure of RCMP and various other municipal police departments including Toronto Police Service, your expectations will likely not be met.

I think we are discussing two different things. I'm talking about the gov't lying about motives. Truth usually comes out and the public loses trust in the gov't. By the way, the judicial system IS part of the government. Even in Canada.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think we are discussing two different things. I'm talking about the gov't lying about motives. Truth usually comes out and the public loses trust in the gov't. By the way, the judicial system IS part of the government. Even in Canada.

This case obviously will not go to trial so my apologies, I don’t know what point you’re trying to make about “the govt lying about motives” but we should stay on the topic of this thread. If you read my last post, “the govt” (whoever that is? The PM???) is not going to give anyone a motive any more than would a property tax assessor or social worker therefore your expectations are unreasonable. And it’s not quite true the judicial system is part of the government because judges are not tossed out each time new government representatives are elected, every four years.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

This case obviously will not go to trial so my apologies, I don’t know what point you’re trying to make about “the govt lying about motives” but we should stay on the topic of this thread. If you read my last post, “the govt” (whoever that is? The PM???) is not going to give anyone a motive any more than would a property tax assessor or social worker therefore your expectations are unreasonable. And it’s not quite true the judicial system is part of the government because judges are not tossed out each time new government representatives are elected, every four years.

I was responding to a comment that a gov't shouldn't acknowledge terrorism and I said it would just make it worse and the public would lose trust. That is all it was, I have no idea what the rest of this is about.

 

[dotr]

Media lawyers seek police details on Danforth shooter
Aug. 30 2018
Media lawyers seek police details on Danforth shooter
"The Information To Obtain documents — which is the justification upon which judges grant search warrants and wiretaps — have been sealed indefinitely, a media lawyer factum states. The media wants these unsealed to reveal details to the public."

 

[JDG]

I hope we get the information on this Danforth shooter.

It was all too neat, too soon and very slick.

IMO, we are being snowed, totally snowed.

Are we trying to 'not offend'?? Well, I find THAT offensive if true. MOO

 

[JDG]

Trouble is that the terrorists will just double down on their atrocities. Also I don't trust the gov't to determine what we should know about events. There is a reason we have a free press and free speech. The gov't isn't overly trustworthy. When they hide information like the Ft Hood terrorist attack, it's not for our benefit. No, terrorists need to be under the spotlight not hidden in the dark where they can multiply like cockroaches. People deserve to know what's going on in their own countries.

Couldn't agree more. Shine a light on it, let people make their own decisions and stop playing the 'nanny state'. MOO

 

[JDG]

The problem is governments can never prove a negative. So as it’s impossible to prove ISIS wasn’t involved because the perp can’t be interviewed, then some people believe it must’ve been. That’s not a lot different than me being unable to prove the world is round by having walked or flown in a circle around it, so then it might be flat.

So are you suggesting it’s realistic that people might expect a minute-by-minute detailed account involving the life of a perpetrator committing a mass shooting in order to prove no connection to ISIS? Much like pedophiles who become motivated through lurid public details involving child abuse, the act of unbalanced people committing copycat crimes is also well established.

Because we’re not given the entire investigative file to pour through, some assume there must be a conspiracy or a coverup...................etc

Sorry if this is coming across as a rant but I really do feel sorry for people who live their lives in deep mistrust and paranoia and believe that the entire govt or police always are corrupt, can’t be trusted, and nothing is like it seems. However it also deeply concerns me — because did you ever consider that mindset is not a lot different than the very same type of brainwashing that ISIS likely practises?

Keeping the public in the dark is NOT a form of protection. It is a form of censorship.

We, the citizens, are entitled to the background information on this guy and any other lunatic who shoots up a neighbourhood or innocent person for whatever reason.

That is NOT asking them to prove a negative. If this dude had no links to anything, was simply mentally ill, show us without the slick release within an hour of his name being released. Not a word from his family?? Not one word of sympathy?? Sorry Misty but it screams volumes.

With 'regular' murderers, we do get background and an understanding of motive.
Not with this dude.

Why are we being snowed?? 40 degree weather and its snowing in Toronto! MOO

 

[MistyWaters]

Keeping the public in the dark is NOT a form of protection. It is a form of censorship.

We, the citizens, are entitled to the background information on this guy and any other lunatic who shoots up a neighbourhood or innocent person for whatever reason.

That is NOT asking them to prove a negative. If this dude had no links to anything, was simply mentally ill, show us without the slick release within an hour of his name being released. Not a word from his family?? Not one word of sympathy?? Sorry Misty but it screams volumes.

With 'regular' murderers, we do get background and an understanding of motive.
Not with this dude.

Why are we being snowed?? 40 degree weather and its snowing in Toronto! MOO

I’m not sure what you mean, not a word from his family. They issued a statement shortly after the shooting.
DANFORTH SHOOTING: Gunman identified, family alleges ‘severe mental health’ challenges

He was apprehended under the Mental Health act at least once according to an unnamed high school teacher.
Toronto mass shooter Faisal Hussain previously said ‘I want to kill someone’: former teacher

In my opinion if there’s a reason for sealing his lifelong history, it’s to muzzle highlighting the challenges/lack of options that families are faced with regarding the involuntary treatment of severe and chronic mental illness of other adult family members. But due to current Privacy Legislation which makes it impossible for them to become involved, it probably will not.

 

[glamourkitty1922]

Media lawyers seek police details on Danforth shooter
Aug. 30 2018
Media lawyers seek police details on Danforth shooter
"The Information To Obtain documents — which is the justification upon which judges grant search warrants and wiretaps — have been sealed indefinitely, a media lawyer factum states. The media wants these unsealed to reveal details to the public."

Hmm, I wonder what they're hiding.

 

[JDG]

Hopefully, the court will order it all unsealed.

Might hear something after the long weekend.

 

[MistyWaters]

WARMINGTON: Cops promise a full report on Danforth shooting rampage

“...Idsinga understands how rough this has been on the victims and their families — saying their pain, grief, anger and frustration is felt by the detectives as well. He has two top investigators on this who are working around the clock to get all the answers. He assured families of victims that they will receive a briefing on what police conclude.

The report will include eye-witness accounts and video evidence, just like members of the public would hear at a trial. It will include details on Hussain’s mental state, what he did that day, and his past issues with the law. Many things have been reported. But not many have been confirmed by law enforcement agencies. This report will go a long way in helping Toronto and the victims’ families get the straight facts...”

 

[dotr]

Police documents call Danforth shooter 'emotionally disturbed loner' - CityNews Toronto
Sept 20 2018
"The man who went on a deadly shooting rampage before killing himself in Toronto’s Greektown this summer was an emotionally disturbed loner and did not appear to act out of any particular ideological motivation, police documents released on Thursday indicate.

The redacted documents, drawn up by officers in support of obtaining search warrants, also indicate Faisal Hussain was arrested for shoplifting two days before the incident but was released unconditionally."

“For the last couple years, Faisal has had no real friends,” the brother is quoted as saying. “He started attending the mosque with his father but did not seem that interested in religion.”

"In one instance, the documents show, the shooter “stood on top of a woman and shot her four times.” He then shot himself, the documents show."

"According to one detective cited in the documents, Hussain’s cellphone was ringing repeatedly when he was found. An officer answered the phone to discover it was Hussain’s parents frantically trying to reach him, the documents show. The officer spoke to them and advised them to go to a police station.

Police used a dog trained to detect explosives when they searched Hussain’s home. What the dog found is partially redacted in the documents, but a white powdery substance – possibly cocaine – was found in a drawer.

The papers also describe several witness statements, including one man who said Hussain walked casually and was smiling as he fired his lethal rounds"
"In a interview with police, however, Hussain’s father said his son had no mental health issues, the documents show."
"On the night of the shooting, she “told her son that he should get married and find a nice wife,” the documents state. “He left the house that evening to go for a walk around 8:30 p.m. never to return.”

 

[JDG]

Could be wrong but I thought the brother was supposedly in hospital in a coma.

Even the heavily Liberal media are saying the released papers are heavily redacted. (plenty of information was removed).

 

[MistyWaters]

Could be wrong but I thought the brother was supposedly in hospital in a coma.

Even the heavily Liberal media are saying the released papers are heavily redacted. (plenty of information was removed).

There were two brothers mentioned by the media, a twin and an older brother. Although as I recall, there were conflicting media reports about which one was in a coma but toward the end, they settled on it was an older brother.

That sections were redacted isn’t really surprising, considering Canada’s stringent confidentiality legislation that prevails. If any of us had the misfortune to be was associated to this assassin, I don’t think we’d want the details announced to the world either. I support the fact that people who disclose information to LE after a tragedy like this can do so expecting full privacy.

 

[MistyWaters]

“The father also told an officer that he forced Hussain to attend mosque “as he does not go willingly” and that his son didn’t smile much and stayed in his room playing video games....”
Police documents call Danforth shooter 'emotionally disturbed loner' - CityNews Toronto

Similarities to the Fredericton shooter, a social misfit, lack of any healthy relationships, no secure employment, apparently dismal future prospects of opportunity, only activity was playing video games.

High risk for suicide, instead he goes on a shooting spree first as I presume he placed no greater value on the lives of others than he did his own life.

Meanwhile Canada has a great number of government and nonprofit programs available to help people move forward in life but it’s probably the sort of people who are “loners” who are least likely to want, let alone seek out, that sort of assistance. There’s no easy fix, sadly.

 

[JDG]

There were two brothers mentioned by the media, a twin and an older brother. Although as I recall, there were conflicting media reports about which one was in a coma but toward the end, they settled on it was an older brother.

That sections were redacted isn’t really surprising, considering Canada’s stringent confidentiality legislation that prevails. If any of us had the misfortune to be was associated to this assassin, I don’t think we’d want the details announced to the world either. I support the fact that people who disclose information to LE after a tragedy like this can do so expecting full privacy.

I've reviewed a fair amount of this thread and can only find an ill father, a mother, a brother in a coma and a deceased sister, killed in a car crash a few years ago.
(brother has recovered from the coma according to these papers, who is not telling the truth?)

Misty, could you please link where he has TWO brothers, esp a twin?? Thanks

 

[MistyWaters]

I've reviewed a fair amount of this thread and can only find an ill father, a mother, a brother in a coma and a deceased sister, killed in a car crash a few years ago.
(brother has recovered from the coma according to these papers, who is not telling the truth?)

Misty, could you please link where he has TWO brothers, esp a twin?? Thanks

This is one example. I don’t recall any mention of the exact size of the family other than mention of the death of the sister, except for confusion about either a twin or an older brother who is in a coma.

“Hussain’s twin brother, who had serious plans to be a police officer, has been in a coma for more than a year.”
Who was Faisal Hussain? Toronto gunman was quiet and ‘not normal,’ neighbour says

“Faisal Hussain, the 29-year-old gunman in Sunday’s fatal rampage on the Danforth, had a complicated past replete with family misfortune — including his older brother’s drug overdose, which put him in a vegetative state..”
Who was the Danforth shooter? Faisal Hussain had no criminal court files associated with his name, but a complicated past full of family misfortune | The Star

 

[JDG]

Thank you Misty.

Somehow, I missed the 'twin' bit, also thought he was an older brother. .....'in a coma in hospital'..... or speaking with the police and telling his brother to 'stay home'???

Still a lot of questions IMO

 

[dotr]

Unsealed cop docs reveal wealth of info on Danforth shooter
"Eight hours before Faisal Hussain fatally shot Juliana Kozis, 10, and Reese Fallon, 18, and wounded 13 others on Greektown on July 22, his fraternal twin brother urged him “to get his life together, get married and get some direction,” a police interview with the sibling stated".

"Faisal’s twin brother appealed to his brother to turn his life around just hours before the murderous shooting spree, but this time Faisal was tuning him out.

“In the past Faisal listened to him, but this time he called himself ‘mentally retarded’ numerous times and went to the balcony for a cigarette,” the statement indicated."

"His older brother and alleged petty crack dealer, Fawd suffered an overdose from cocaine and possibly carfentanil and has been brain dead since June 2017."

 

[JDG]

Thanks dotr.