Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I agree, he seems to do strange things without thinking. I have also thought there is the possibility he just went to confront AL over whatever was bugging him. Perhaps the argument got out of hand to the pushing shoving point and he did pull a weapon of some sort. Perhaps by then KL and NO were there too and by then he had to take them all out.

So is he a creature of habit? Would he go back to Crossfield by the 2A going north out of Airdrie? Perhaps he still had a storage locker for years. Can you access them at night? Does anyone else check them? Could he have gone home for chemical to put on them so they wouldn't emit odour? I know nothing about storage lockers except they auction them off on TV. Or he could have travelled up the 2A onto a side road of somebody's farm where there is little traffic. There are so many scenarios to what he might have done. But like Lori said....he doesn't seem to think things through. Why does he always get caught? Also how many people walk through scrub brush, he could just have hidden them under brush until somebody happened to walk by in an out of the way place.

Just another idea to ponder upon.

As is with many mental disorders, consequences are not always considered, or are not a deterrent from acting upon a plan or impulse. If it was a simple argument gone bad, that would warrant a second degree murder charge.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

LE originally stated that they had a 30 day search plan where they would look for the remains in the most likely places... or something of that sort. I will pull the quote when I have more time.

To me, that indicates that LE may have something to point them in specific directions, like evidence from the vehicle, cell phone tracking from towers or apps, location searches from internet history etc.

If 3 bodies were quickly dumped in water, a field, or a ditch somewhere, chances are, something would have turned up by now. If LE thought it were 3 bodies dumped quickly somewhere, I don't think they'd be so quick to discourage the public from looking.

"... the Calgary Police Service says while they are grateful for the overwhelming community support of the investigation, they currently have a 30-day search plan in effect which cannot be shared outside of law enforcement.​"

"Police say they are "systematically searching locations that have a high likelihood of locating evidence ... If the investigation reaches a point where public assistance is required, we will reach out.""

Again... more statements that lend credence to the theory that there was processing, and a dumping of what remained. LE have specific locations or types of locations that they want to search that cannot be shared publicly. What leads them to these specific sites? Most likely, evidence of some sort like I mentioned above.

You will also notice that they are searching these specific locations for... not "bodies"... not "the victims"... but "evidence". Reading too much into it? I don't think so. It's an indication of what they are looking for, and a dehumanization of what they are hoping to find. This is coming from someone inside the investigation, who "knows what they are looking for".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ay-civilian-search-teams-not-needed-1.2708571

 

[Power of Two]

I agree, he seems to do strange things without thinking. I have also thought there is the possibility he just went to confront AL over whatever was bugging him. Perhaps the argument got out of hand to the pushing shoving point and he did pull a weapon of some sort. Perhaps by then KL and NO were there too and by then he had to take them all out.

So is he a creature of habit? Would he go back to Crossfield by the 2A going north out of Airdrie? Perhaps he still had a storage locker for years. Can you access them at night? Does anyone else check them? Could he have gone home for chemical to put on them so they wouldn't emit odour? I know nothing about storage lockers except they auction them off on TV. Or he could have travelled up the 2A onto a side road of somebody's farm where there is little traffic. There are so many scenarios to what he might have done. But like Lori said....he doesn't seem to think things through. Why does he always get caught? Also how many people walk through scrub brush, he could just have hidden them under brush until somebody happened to walk by in an out of the way place.

Just another idea to ponder upon.

BBM Having lived in southern Alberta myself for time, I cannot help but think about all of the coyotes and scavenger birds there are there. If bodies were merely dumped somewhere, even remotely, there would be no doubt that animals and birds would eventually scatter the remains. I somehow doubt that DG would take the risk of bones being discovered at some point down the road. JMO

 

[Blue Amethyst]

As is with many mental disorders, consequences are not always considered, or are not a deterrent from acting upon a plan or impulse. If it was a simple argument gone bad, that would warrant a second degree murder charge.

So from their evidence collected they must know he took a weapon with him for first degree murder. Would driving around the house be evidence of that as well? We know so little about what really happened that night. This case is so quiet. I followed the Jodi Arias case and she blabbed about everything much to her detriment.

 

[otto]

These photos shows barrels near the entrance to the house at the Airdrie acreage, and near the green house. The green house barrels are for rainwater collection and don't appear to interest investigators. There are also a couple of burning barrels on the property ... for paper garbage. They are normally used for years where the ash settles and eventually it's full ... then it's replaced, or the ashes are dumped and the barrel is re-used.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1438148/missing-family-search-of-rural-home-enters-fourth-day/

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

So from their evidence collected they must know he took a weapon with him for first degree murder. Would driving around the house be evidence of that as well? We know so little about what really happened that night. This case is so quiet. I followed the Jodi Arias case and she blabbed about everything much to her detriment.

Not necessarily... something like internet search histories of "how to dispose of a body" or "case histories of missing bodies in Canada" can point to pre-planning. So does any sort of diary with plans, wish lists or diagrams. There are many different ways to prove intent.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

As is with many mental disorders, consequences are not always considered, or are not a deterrent from acting upon a plan or impulse. If it was a simple argument gone bad, that would warrant a second degree murder charge.

Not arguing or debating your comment here, but a serious question... If someone comes to a person's house with a firearm or weapon let's say (possibly to confront them), can't they get charged with 1st degree murder? Does bringing a weapon in itself show intent? I'll have to look up the law again, as I'm curious now.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I agree, he seems to do strange things without thinking. I have also thought there is the possibility he just went to confront AL over whatever was bugging him. Perhaps the argument got out of hand to the pushing shoving point and he did pull a weapon of some sort. Perhaps by then KL and NO were there too and by then he had to take them all out.

So is he a creature of habit? Would he go back to Crossfield by the 2A going north out of Airdrie? Perhaps he still had a storage locker for years. Can you access them at night? Does anyone else check them? Could he have gone home for chemical to put on them so they wouldn't emit odour? I know nothing about storage lockers except they auction them off on TV. Or he could have travelled up the 2A onto a side road of somebody's farm where there is little traffic. There are so many scenarios to what he might have done. But like Lori said....he doesn't seem to think things through. Why does he always get caught? Also how many people walk through scrub brush, he could just have hidden them under brush until somebody happened to walk by in an out of the way place.

Just another idea to ponder upon.

I like your pondering about him being a creature of habit, something to think about for sure.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

As is with many mental disorders, consequences are not always considered, or are not a deterrent from acting upon a plan or impulse. If it was a simple argument gone bad, that would warrant a second degree murder charge.

True that. Actions first, consequences later for most bad behavior.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Not arguing or debating your comment here, but a serious question... If someone comes to a person's house with a firearm or weapon let's say (possibly to confront them), can't they get charged with 1st degree murder? Does bringing a weapon in itself show intent? I'll have to look up the law again, as I'm curious now.

I think there are case histories that demonstrate it is not. I think even the G relative that was shot and saved allegedly by a breast implant demonstrates that bringing a weapon, and pulling the weapon doesn't completely prove intent to every court's satisfaction.

 

[Cherchri]

These photos shows barrels near the entrance to the house at the Airdrie acreage, and near the green house. The green house barrels are for rainwater collection and don't appear to interest investigators. There are also a couple of burning barrels on the property ... for paper garbage. They are normally used for years where the ash settles and eventually it's full ... then it's replaced, or the ashes are dumped and the barrel is re-used.

http://globalnews.ca/news/1438148/missing-family-search-of-rural-home-enters-fourth-day/

And I see a number of large bin like receptacles inside the greenhouse too. Is that investigator wearing protective gear?

 

[Cherchri]

:takeabow:

"... the Calgary Police Service says while they are grateful for the overwhelming community support of the investigation, they currently have a 30-day search plan in effect which cannot be shared outside of law enforcement.​"

"Police say they are "systematically searching locations that have a high likelihood of locating evidence ... If the investigation reaches a point where public assistance is required, we will reach out.""

Again... more statements that lend credence to the theory that there was processing, and a dumping of what remained. LE have specific locations or types of locations that they want to search that cannot be shared publicly. What leads them to these specific sites? Most likely, evidence of some sort like I mentioned above.

You will also notice that they are searching these specific locations for... not "bodies"... not "the victims"... but "evidence". Reading too much into it? I don't think so. It's an indication of what they are looking for, and a dehumanization of what they are hoping to find. This is coming from someone inside the investigation, who "knows what they are looking for".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ay-civilian-search-teams-not-needed-1.2708571

Bravo!:takeabow::goodpost:

 

[deugirtni]

I don't mean to be sarcastic, honest.. but I can't help saying.. perhaps there are TWO old green F150s around?

A younger fellow? Well, that wouldn't be DG...so there must have been someone else involved. Someone younger, and perhaps stronger than DG. I thought I had heard at one point that it was a blonde fellow...ah yes...found it in quote #408.

What kind of blonde? A Liknes blonde? Or, an RO blonde? Hmmm, interesting.

If it were a Liknes (say JL) or RO, then that might indicate that there were interactions between the Liknes and Garland families, through DG as well as thru his sister
Interesting thought.

 

[deugirtni]

I think it is creepy that a perp would not be charged with whatever charges were applicable to the crime(s) he/she committed, just because LE feels that 'if' convicted of the major crime, there would be no longer term for the perhaps lesser crimes.. to me, all of it should be on a criminal's record so as to give a better picture of what the criminal is capable of, etc., in future, after the 25 years, or during parole hearings, or just later after it's no longer in the news. Also, I am having a really difficult time comprehending that the sentence is the same for the guy who plans to kill his pesky neighbour and follows through with it, as it is for the pig farmers who lure perhaps 50 women to their horrible deaths. Wow.

If it was a second degree charge, which is 10 years and parole, then adding another charge may increase the sentence, but I doubt it. Murder, with or without mutilation, will be either second or first degree murder. I think those sentences trump lesser charges ... but I'm not sure how the new "consecutive" law fits.

 

[deugirtni]

ha, I hadn't caught that.. '3 senior citizens',

^^BBM
I didn't realize 54 was a senior citizen............ *& yes..I'm being sarcastic....I'm 54 in a week or so!* *L*

 

[Tinkerbel1]

True that. Actions first, consequences later for most bad behavior.

That is a slippery slope for sure. Mental illness is not bad behaviour....it's mental illness. DG has ADD. I think it's easy to forget that he has some challenges considering the situation and LE's circumstantial evidence. Reading the below article, I'm confused as to how someone who has trouble focusing on things and seeing things through, as is most often the case with ADD managed all of this in such a planned manner, and in a very tight time period. Totally baffled. :thinking:

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm

 

[Lalalacasbah]

That is a slippery slope for sure. Mental illness is not bad behaviour....it's mental illness. DG has ADD. I think it's easy to forget that he has some challenges considering the situation and LE's circumstantial evidence. Reading the below article, I'm confused as to how someone who has trouble focusing on things and seeing things through, as is most often the case with ADD managed all of this in such a planned manner, and in a very tight time period. Totally baffled. :thinking:

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/adhd_add_adult_symptoms.htm

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge advocate and believer for those with mental health issues to get proper medical care and not pushed to the sidelines of society and wish there was more education in the world about it. IMO, as an outsider looking in - I just don't think DG is truly mentally ill in the way that deems that as an excuse or reason for his crime.

I could be wrong, but I don't think most people with serious mental health issues have the organizational thoughts and skills to *plan* a murder or identity theft, and I agree with what you said - if he does have ADD/ADHD and trouble focusing how did he evade LE for so many years? Baffling is right… Or he could just be a good con.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

No they don't need a full flush, unless of course, your parents are out of town and you've put something down the drain that should be removed asap. $450 and your clean. And I think likely that DG keeps up the property in tandem with his parents.

Not all commercial/residential/industrial sites are on mainline sewer systems,, temporary and permanent systems are all over the place.

Though DG is in custody, I still - as a Canadian - believe he must be respected as innocent until proven guilty. There seems to be a disconnect between the words loner and private. One set of my neighbours would consider me a loner because I don't acknowledge them, but that's only because they are openly racist and bigoted. Maybe DG is a loser, and, maybe he is innocent of the crime. If he is found guilty of this crime, have at him - me too - but until that time poking names as such on him doesn't seem right IMO.

:yeahthat: Thank you so much Stan Laurel for "humanizing" DG...he is after all, a human being. Despite what he may or may not have done, he still deserves the basic human right of being treated with dignity and respect. "There but for the grace of God go I...."

 

[Power of Two]

ha, I hadn't caught that.. '3 senior citizens',

My apologies... I am 50(cough)something years old myself and am finally old enough to join the Senior's Centre here in town. I think what I was trying to impress was that there aren't residents at the Garland residence who would be hard on a septic system in terms of lengthy showers and tons of laundry or throwing miscellaneous plastic objects and facecloths down the toilet as a young family would. Speaking from experience..haha!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge advocate and believer for those with mental health issues to get proper medical care and not pushed to the sidelines of society and wish there was more education in the world about it. IMO, as an outsider looking in - I just don't think DG is truly mentally ill in the way that deems that as an excuse or reason for his crime.

I could be wrong, but I don't think most people with serious mental health issues have the organizational thoughts and skills to *plan* a murder or identity theft, and I agree with what you said - if he does have ADD/ADHD and trouble focusing how did he evade LE for so many years? Baffling is right… Or he could just be a good con.

....or maybe because he does have trouble maintaining focus and doesn't sit still for long....that's another characteristic. I doubt that LE were 'actively' looking for DG when he was in BC ... IMO, LE knows they'll eventually turn up...somewhere, somehow...which is basically what happened...so it really wasn't too hard to hide. I don't think DG had to plan the identity theft, I think someone else gave him his credentials and he used them. As far as planning this murder...that remains to be seen and decided upon in court. As Stan Laurel mentioned, "innocent until proven guilty".

If DG was "diagnosed" with ADD, then he very likely has ADD. If he has ADD, then this is a pretty big thing for him to do...I suppose it could be part of the 'hyper-focus' symptom of ADD. ADD may explain why he does things that aren't too bright...like reuse the stolen identity, get his truck on CCTV as often as he did, and show up back at the acreage when he was out on bail. IMO, it looks like he's got something not quite right up there. It's definitely going to be an interesting trial that's for sure.