Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[Tinkerbel1]

I strongly agree, Lalalacasbah. The poster that is confused about DG's ability to carry out a premeditated murder is over simplifying. His condition could be specific to learning, or being able to carry a conversation, or a number of things not on Google.
To reference a Google article about ADD/ADHD and then to apply all of the characteristics and symptoms to DG, (inability to sit still, being unable to focus or follow through on anything, impulse, anger) seems a little pedestrian. IMO.
I'm surprised some people still think 'the internet' gives us all we need to know about everything, including mental disorders.

Hello I was the poster!! I'm sure you didn't mean to come across as insensitive in your comment. Ugh! I wish it was info from "the internet" that gave me all I need to know about ADD and other mental disorders. Sadly, I have a lifetime of personal experience and wads of counselling to understand varying illnesses in order to have been a support for many important people in my life. From in-laws, significant others, cousins, friends, friends children, you name it. There is a lot of mental illness out there. I wish it was just from reading it all on the internet, and not learning about it through the suffering of these people I've witnessed over and over again. I have personal experience of my own as to mental illness as well.

 

[otto]

In terms of whether his mental health issues will be used in his defence, I think it's possible. I doubt that ADHD qualifies as a temp insanity excuse ... but mental health issues might qualify.

"“The Board is satisfied that there are no reasonable grounds to believe that, if released, you are likely to commit an offence involving violence before the expiration of your sentence, and directs your release.”

However, it did note concerns about his mental health leading to criminal activity in granting Garland’s day parole to a supervised facility in June.

“Concerns regarding mental issues have contributed to the property offences and close monitoring by a psychologist and psychiatrist will be required.”

A second review by the parole board on October 20, 2000 showed Garland’s mental health had stabilized.

“Your mental health is assessed as having stabilized and with close monitoring in the Community Residential Facility and by mental health professionals, you are assessed as a manageable risk.”

http://globalnews.ca/news/1439359/p...ut-person-of-interest-in-missing-family-case/

 

[LoisLane]

The wikipedia could use some work

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Nathan_O'Brien,_Kathryn_Liknes_and_Alvin_Liknes

 

[deugirtni]

I'm still having difficulty with presuming DG's guilt. Haven't seen enough evidence published for me personally to come to that conclusion, unlike so many of the rest of you. In any case, with violent crimes, doesn't the perp often have a progression in violent behavior? If MH professionals after treating/meeting with DG felt that he had no violent tendencies to worry about, then where did this very violent act come from? I really hope he is not just the family scapegoat.

It works to his advantage that there are documents stating that his mental health played a role in his earlier crimes. He can reference that when pleading that his mental health issues again played a role, with the difference being that it now has resulted in violence towards others.

 

[LoisLane]

I'm still having difficulty with presuming DG's guilt. Haven't seen enough evidence published for me personally to come to that conclusion, unlike so many of the rest of you. In any case, with violent crimes, doesn't the perp often have a progression in violent behavior? If MH professionals after treating/meeting with DG felt that he had no violent tendencies to worry about, then where did this very violent act come from? I really hope he is not just the family scapegoat.

If DG is not guilty after the police recovered so much evidence to lay charges, than I am not convinced the three are dead.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I'm still having difficulty with presuming DG's guilt. Haven't seen enough evidence published for me personally to come to that conclusion, unlike so many of the rest of you. In any case, with violent crimes, doesn't the perp often have a progression in violent behavior? If MH professionals after treating/meeting with DG felt that he had no violent tendencies to worry about, then where did this very violent act come from? I really hope he is not just the family scapegoat.

It's a stretch to think that there is some sort of pattern everyone follows to become violent or commit murder. In some parts of the world it's just a way of life. We just happen to live in an area that frowns upon it, and affords us the luxury of analyzing the whys.

One very glaring, and not often pointed out flaw of assessing someone who has a mental disability, is that you are relying on the patient to supply you the information you need to make a diagnosis. When you combine potentially flawed or false information, with a limited diagnostic tool like the DSM, there is no guarantee that the greatest Psychiatrist has any more insight than the worst.

It is not an exact science, by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[otto]

It's a stretch to think that there is some sort of pattern everyone follows to become violent or commit murder. In some parts of the world it's just a way of life. We just happen to live in an area that frowns upon it, and affords us the luxury of analyzing the whys.

One very glaring, and not often pointed out flaw of assessing someone who has a mental disability, is that you are relying on the patient to supply you the information you need to make a diagnosis. When you combine potentially flawed or false information, with a limited diagnostic tool like the DSM, there is no guarantee even the greatest Psychiatrist has any more insight than the worst.

It is not an exact science, by any stretch of the imagination.

The parole board psychiatrist recommended mandatory medication and counselling. If that was not followed up after parole ended, no one is at fault. Garland had the right to refuse treatment. After he finished parole, he could not be detained for not following the advice of the psychiatrist.

We don't know what type of mental health issues Garland has, but it must be something worse than adult ADHD.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It should be pointed out, DG may have no mental issues whatsoever, and should still be considered innocent until a court says otherwise.

 

[LoisLane]

Does anyone know if we can backtrack Canada's Most Wanted to 1999 when the information about DG was released? I have tried various avenues and have nothing. Where would an archive of this be? In 1999 would the wanted list be broadcasted on a television program or internet?

 

[deugirtni]

And... are they asked to prove claims of horrific events having happened in their past which may potentially explain a person's screwed-upped-ness?

"The judge in that case, which saw the government try to deny him benefits because he used a false identity and social insurance number, described him as intelligent but suffering from attention-deficit disorder and prone to breakdowns.

According to what Judge Campbell Miller heard, Mr. Garland suffered a breakdown while at the U of A, and “also seems to have been traumatized by causing what he described as a horrific accident due to falling asleep at the wheel.”

Yet some who knew Mr. Garland in those days say they never heard of him being involved in such an accident.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/07/08/christie-blatchford-person-of-interest-in-case-of-missing-boy-grandparents-has-well-honed-sense-of-entitlement/

........... When one represents themselves in court are they held accountable to prove personal claims they make for themselves such as a disability or illness? If DG's personality traits impacted the Judges ruling would that be DG's way of manipulating the system?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Does anyone know if we can backtrack Canada's Most Wanted to 1999 when the information about DG was released? I have tried various avenues and have nothing. Where would an archive of this be? In 1999 would the wanted list be broadcasted on a television program or internet?

According to MSM, it was an RCMP "most wanted" list online... so it would have most likely just been a web page with a picture.

 

[deugirtni]

In your quote below, I wonder 'who' it was clear to, that DG was agitated and that it was also apparent that he was an intelligent individual'? Was it the news reporter's opinion?

I think it is noted by the judge in the decision that he was agitated at times.

"2] Mr. Garland is in his mid-forties. He suffers from attention deficient disorder (ADD). It was clear that he was agitated throughout the trial, but it was also apparent that he was an intelligent individual.

 

[LoisLane]

And... are they asked to prove claims of horrific events having happened in their past which may potentially explain a person's screwed-upped-ness?



http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/07/08/christie-blatchford-person-of-interest-in-case-of-missing-boy-grandparents-has-well-honed-sense-of-entitlement/

Exactly! I would love to know!

 

[LoisLane]

Body pulled from Bow River at Fish Creek Park
CBC News Posted: Aug 30, 2014 5:23 PM MT Last Updated: Aug 30, 2014 5:23 PM MT
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/body-pulled-from-bow-river-at-fish-creek-park-1.2751675

 

[otto]

It should be pointed out, DG may have no mental issues whatsoever, and should still be considered innocent until a court says otherwise.

Court documents clearly state that Doug Garland has mental issues, that they contributed to his prior criminal activities, and that he was under the treatment of a psychiatrist when he was released on parole. He does have documented mental issues, and is presumed innocent.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

And... are they asked to prove claims of horrific events having happened in their past which may potentially explain a person's screwed-upped-ness?



http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/07/08/christie-blatchford-person-of-interest-in-case-of-missing-boy-grandparents-has-well-honed-sense-of-entitlement/

We don't know what happened in the alleged traumatic accident. Perhaps he fell asleep at the wheel and ran over his dog. No one outside himself and/or close family may be aware of what happened for good reason.

Given the case was about employment insurance benefits, it may not have been an intricate testimony and cross on the details of his past. It may be the 100% truth, an embellishment, a small portion, or a flat out lie. Without the transcripts... we are left to speculate.

Given that he was at the same time admitting the amphetamines, fleeing LE, identity theft, and mental disorders... to me, it doesn't make too much sense to completley make something up like that to gain what will be minimal sympathy, at the risk of ruining your case for perjuring yourself. My gut says there is a story there.

 

[otto]

The court document that talks about his car accident and school is from the other court case where he was charged with the 'drug lab'. If anyone can recall the thread that this is posted in and re-post, that would be helpful. It seems difficult to find on the web now... Which I find peculiar.

Is this what you're looking for:

"He also seems to have been traumatized by causing what he described as a horrific accident due to falling asleep at the wheel."

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/tcc/doc/2005/2005tcc176/2005tcc176.html

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

In your quote below, I wonder 'who' it was clear to, that DG was agitated and that it was also apparent that he was an intelligent individual'? Was it the news reporter's opinion?

That was written in the judge's decision, so it was the observation of the judge.

 

[otto]

We don't know what happened in the alleged traumatic accident. Perhaps he fell asleep at the wheel and ran over his dog. No one outside himself and/or close family may be aware of what happened for good reason.

Given the case was about employment insurance benefits, it may not have been an intricate testimony and cross on the details of his past. It may be the 100% truth, an embellishment, a small portion, or a flat out lie. Without the transcripts... we are left to speculate.

Given that he was at the same time admitting the amphetamines, fleeing LE, identity theft, and mental disorders... to me, it doesn't make too much sense to completley make something up like that to gain what will be minimal sympathy, at the risk of ruining your case for perjuring yourself. My gut says there is a story there.

He claims that he caused an horrific accident by falling asleep at the wheel, but we already know that's probably not true. Matthey Hartley, age 14, died in an horrific car accident that also claimed the life of his sister. Garland had a breakdown - probably true. He quit university at the beginning of his third year - not true. He was expelled for cheating in the beginning of his third year, he didn't quit. He was aiming for a BSc. If he had a breakdown, it was probably a tantrum for being expelled. There was no car accident in Garland's life, only in his fake identity's life.

 

[LoisLane]

Is this what you're looking for:

"He also seems to have been traumatized by causing what he described as a horrific accident due to falling asleep at the wheel."

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/tcc/doc/2005/2005tcc176/2005tcc176.html

Thanks Otto, it isn't. I could have sworn we had a document posted where a Judge described DG as a genius. I will be back on a PC tomorrow and can navigate the threads better and hope to find it.