Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #14

[LoisLane]

Yes! It sure does seem that he straightened out his life for the past 10 years or so. Maybe the farm kept him peaceful, and unstressed so he was able to live a relatively emotionally and mentally balanced life. There are many people that do turn over a new leaf. Its possible he was receiving the proper medical help for his mental struggles during this "clean" time of his life as well. It's unfortunate, but many people that are stabilized by meds and/or therapy start to feel so normal that they feel they don't need their meds anymore and take themselves off...causing the emergence of the original illness to come surging back with a vengeance. Without knowing more details and information about his mental health care program(s) or illness itself, it's very hard to speculate what happened to cause him to "snap" so to speak. I don't know, again mental illness is a slippery slope. :hanging:

Agreed. Until we know the degree of his ADHD or a mental illness I am going to stick to the facts of his criminal background. I do not know of many reformed criminals and their stories of working hard to keep themselves out of criminal activity.

 

[otto]

Are you talking about the employment insurance case? We don't know what he said. Again... it's entirely plausible that he ran over a pet, and found it traumatic. There wouldn't be a record of it.

Depending on the individual, and the illness, something as simple as not getting proper sleep can cause a "breakdown". Each individual has different triggers, has had a different life experience, has different genetics, and places a different priority on stressors in their life. One thing that triggers a Borderline Personality can be laughed off by someone with Bipolar Disorder... there is no magic solution or answer.

It is not an exact science... not even close.

No.
Garland did not have a breakdown after an horrific asleep at the wheel accident where he ran over the pet bunny. If fact, there is no record that he ever had an horrific accident. Furthermore, why would Garland be reporting an incident of trauma due to running over the pet bunny while asleep at the wheel as a mitigating factor in a drug conviction? There is a record that he stole the identity of a 14 year old boy that was involved in a fatal, horrific, head-on collision.

Whatever the mental health issues, Garland has a history of inappropriate behaviour that warranted psychiatric intervention involving both counselling and medication. That much seems to be documented, but at the same time, he sailed through his six months of a 39 month prison sentence with flying colours ... released in six months. His mental health issues were miraculously healed, and he was fit for release with low risk of violence towards others ... and that was true for 13 years.

Bipolar is also known as passive/aggressive. Can a passive/aggressive person, living the highs and lows of bipolar, be a loner?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Schizophrenia is triggered later in life: 18-24. Garland is not diagnosed with schizophrenia. Is there any other mental issue that starts in adulthood? I don't think it's obvious that Garland has some sort of "imbalance". In fact, I think he's simply an angry man who saw no alternative to murder after he perceived that he was wronged. I don't think he's sick, I think he's mean, nasty, unpleasant, antisocial, and murderous. I think he could murder a five year old child to eliminate a witness.

You don't know the history of diagnoses. For all we know, he was diagnosed ADD by a small town GP because one of his small town teachers thought he was too disruptive and called his parents... which could have been completely wrong.

His life experiences could be read as one of someone just plain evil, but it can also be read as someone who had several opportunities to be helped by professionals who, for some reason, never got further than ADHD even knowing he had some sort of "breakdowns" that affected his life in a negative way.

There are a lot of angles to this, and it's too early to start the black and white reasoning. No, there is no real justification for the murders, but there is a reason this happened, and it's not a simple good guy, bad guy generalization.

 

[LoisLane]

I'll have to look on a map, is this somewhere close to this case do you think?

I don't know if it is related but a body was pulled from the water. I also noticed an increase of browsers on here tonight so I thought maybe something had been released, this is all I could find.

 

[otto]

Agreed. Until we know the degree of his ADHD or a mental illness I am going to stick to the facts of his criminal background. I do not know of many reformed criminals and their stories of working hard to keep themselves out of criminal activity.

ADHD is not a factor in murder convictions because ADHD does not distort reality. People with ADHD are not excused for murder due to mental defect. Garland may have problems concentrating, but that does not lead to murder. Garland does have mental health issues that warrant psychiatric attention ... and he is accused of mass murder.

I think that Garland is both mean and dangerous. Alvin's daughter knew people that were mean and dangerous. Her friend shot her in the chest over a debt ... rough people; not mainstream Calgary people. I think that most people in Calgary are completely unfamiliar with getting shot. Here, we have three victims of a mass murder with no bodies, and a close association with someone getting shot in the chest over a debt.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Schizophrenia is triggered later in life: 18-24. Garland is not diagnosed with schizophrenia. Is there any other mental issue that starts in adulthood? I don't think it's obvious that Garland has some sort of "imbalance". In fact, I think he's simply an angry man who saw no alternative to murder after he perceived that he was wronged. I don't think he's sick, I think he's mean, nasty, unpleasant, antisocial, and murderous. I think he could murder a five year old child to eliminate a witness.

Bipolar Disorder and Depression can be triggered later in life, as can PTSD. Garland has not been diagnosed with a lot of things, just the ADD as far as we've heard. However, having said this, it doesn't mean that he wasn't misdiagnosed or under-diagnosed earlier in life while having a comorbid existing condition. There are a lot of things that could potentially cause brain damage of sorts as well. It is absolutely obvious that he has some sort of "imbalance". To put it bluntly, "the man is not wrapped right". There are many idiosyncrasies about him that suggest either a complex brain function, or a complex underfunctioning. Perhaps he has Aspergers syndrome as demonstrated by his lack of social skills...that's one that runs rampant out there...it could be that he was autistic and never diagnosed as a child.

I'm not sure what age group you're in Otto, but I am in my early 50's. Back in the day, psychiatrict evaluations weren't handed out like candy nor did our generations' parents' rush us out to the neighborhood Psychiatrist, most things such as ADD weren't even diagnosed then, you just were noted as a "problem" by usually the first or 2nd grade teachers.

Anyway, not sure where this is going with the mental illness stuff but it's clear that you have a very definite decision made up about DG. You may be completely right; but without all the information, I can't in good conscience condemn someone that a) may or may not be guilty and b) may be guilty due to mental illness. There's never any good excuse for taking someone else's life, but in the case of some severe mental functioning issues (should they be present), the accused could be held NCR.

:justice:
Regardless of whatever transpired that night, in DG's head, or out of "DG's head...being hateful towards him is not going to bring the Liknes' or NO back. Harboring those kinds of emotions are like drinking poison and expecting the other guy to die. That's not going to happen either, my friend.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

No.
Garland did not have a breakdown after an horrific asleep at the wheel accident where he ran over the pet bunny. If fact, there is no record that he ever had an horrific accident. Furthermore, why would Garland be reporting an incident of trauma due to running over the pet bunny while asleep at the wheel as a mitigating factor in a drug conviction? There is a record that he stole the identity of a 14 year old boy that was involved in a fatal, horrific, head-on collision.

Whatever the mental health issues, Garland has a history of inappropriate behaviour that warranted psychiatric intervention involving both counselling and medication. That much seems to be documented, but at the same time, he sailed through his six months of a 39 month prison sentence with flying colours ... released in six months. His mental health issues were miraculously healed, and he was fit for release with low risk of violence towards others ... and that was true for 13 years.

Bipolar is also known as passive/aggressive. Can a passive/aggressive person, living the highs and lows of bipolar, be a loner?

Bipolar Disorder is a heck of a lot more than just some passive / aggressive behaviour, and I didn't even hint that DG was suffering from it... so I'm not sure where that came from.

As for the traumatic accident, it's too easy to dismiss it as a lie... there are many different scenarios that could have been traumatic, where the only records are medical or insurance, both of which aren't easily accessed online.

 

[otto]

You don't know the history of diagnoses. For all we know, he was diagnosed ADD by a small town GP because one of his small town teachers thought he was too disruptive and called his parents... which could have been completely wrong.

His life experiences could be read as one of someone just plain evil, but it can also be read as someone who had several opportunities to be helped by professionals who, for some reason, never got further than ADHD even knowing he had some sort of "breakdowns" that affected his life in a negative way.

There are a lot of angles to this, and it's too early to start the black and white reasoning. No, there is no real justification for the murders, but there is a reason this happened, and it's not a simple good guy, bad guy generalization.

Perhaps Doug Garland has ADHD, perhaps he heard someone talking about ADHD, and perhaps he faked it. ADHD and "breakdowns" are not the same.

Black and white reasoning is what police have said. Police have said that all three victims are dead, that there was a violent incident at the first crime scene, that they are still looking for the bodies. No one cares if Garland is ADHD, as it has no bearing on the charges, the trial, the conviction, or the sentence.

 

[otto]

Bipolar Disorder is a heck of a lot more than just some passive / aggressive behaviour, and I didn't even hint that DG was suffering from it... so I'm not sure where that came from.

As for the traumatic accident, it's too easy to dismiss it as a lie... there are many different scenarios that could have been traumatic, where the only records are medical or insurance, both of which aren't easily accessed online.

When bipolar people are in the aggressive stage, are they loners?

Other than schizophrenia, what other mental issue occurs after puberty?

As for the claimed traffic accident, the accident where Matthew Hartley and his sister died could be found, so articles from 1980 are available on the net. If anything that Garland said about a vehicle accident was true, there is a record and it should be available since earlier records are available.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Agreed. Until we know the degree of his ADHD or a mental illness I am going to stick to the facts of his criminal background. I do not know of many reformed criminals and their stories of working hard to keep themselves out of criminal activity.

:takeabow: Yes, that's a great idea! There are just so many unknowns that it sure is enticing to speculate! Well, at this point, what else can we do? lol

Just for interests sake (I was pretty impressed by the people in the following article that have turned their lives around...in really big ways! Which is good to see!)
http://listverse.com/2014/01/06/10-exemplary-tales-of-ex-convicts-who-turned-their-lives-around/

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

When bipolar people are in the aggressive stage, are they loners?

They go through manic highs and lows, both of which can force them to be loners since they can be difficult for others to cope with. Again... it's a generalization. It was an example of how different people, with different disorders are triggered by different things.

Again, I didn't imply DG was Bipolar, so why make the connection?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

When bipolar people are in the aggressive stage, are they loners?

Hello Otto

There are 2 types of Bipolar Disorders. Bipolar is the newer term for the old "manic/depression" term. There is Bipolar 1 and Bipolar 2. You should read up on them, I'm sure a Psychiatrist will do a much better job than I on describing them. I'm not aware that there's actually an "aggressive" state...its typically mania(euphoria) and depression (obviously the opposite). The manic state does not mean you kill people. As a matter of fact, you'll likely find that a lot of depressed people can present as angry, belligerant and hostile; those characteristics can also belong to PTSD, Schizophrenia, Dementia, or a number of disorders.

When bipolar people are in their depressive state, they will tend to withdraw and isolate themselves from others.

You can look all the illnesses up online under Canadian Mental Health.

 

[otto]

Anyway, not sure where this is going with the mental illness stuff but it's clear that you have a very definite decision made up about DG. You may be completely right; but without all the information, I can't in good conscience condemn someone that a) may or may not be guilty and b) may be guilty due to mental illness. There's never any good excuse for taking someone else's life, but in the case of some severe mental functioning issues (should they be present), the accused could be held NCR.

:justice:
Regardless of whatever transpired that night, in DG's head, or out of "DG's head...being hateful towards him is not going to bring the Liknes' or NO back. Harboring those kinds of emotions are like drinking poison and expecting the other guy to die. That's not going to happen either, my friend.

<snipped>
I suspect that Garland will attempt to argue mental health issues during his defence, and I am confident that he can be hateful, even to a five year old child. I do not have any delusions that the real killer is out there, and poor little Douglas Garland is humiliated at his charge hearing. He is where he should be given his horrific mass murder.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

They go through manic highs and lows, both of which can force them to be loners since they can be difficult for others to cope with. Again... it's a generalization. It was an example of how different people, with different disorders are triggered by different things.

Again, I didn't imply DG was Bipolar, so why make the connection?

That was my fault. We were talking about something a few posts back...not sure where Otto went with that. lol

 

[otto]

They go through manic highs and lows, both of which can force them to be loners since they can be difficult for others to cope with. Again... it's a generalization. It was an example of how different people, with different disorders are triggered by different things.

Again, I didn't imply DG was Bipolar, so why make the connection?

Douglas lived with his parents, so they were probably used to highs and lows ... assuming he was bipolar. Garland is triggered by a sense of justice, rights and fairness. We know that based on his decision to take the Canadian government to court over fairness.

 

[otto]

Hello Otto

There are 2 types of Bipolar Disorders. Bipolar is the newer term for the old "manic/depression" term. There is Bipolar 1 and Bipolar 2. You should read up on them, I'm sure a Psychiatrist will do a much better job than I on describing them. I'm not aware that there's actually an "aggressive" state...its typically mania(euphoria) and depression (obviously the opposite). The manic state does not mean you kill people. As a matter of fact, you'll likely find that a lot of depressed people can present as angry, belligerant and hostile; those characteristics can also belong to PTSD, Schizophrenia, Dementia, or a number of disorders.

When bipolar people are in their depressive state, they will tend to withdraw and isolate themselves from others.

You can look all the illnesses up online under Canadian Mental Health.

I was referring to passive/aggressive bipolar people.

I don't think that Doug Garland suffers from anything more severe than anger.

 

[otto]

That was my fault. We were talking about something a few posts back...not sure where tinklers went with that. lol

No shame.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Perhaps Doug Garland has ADHD, perhaps he heard someone talking about ADHD, and perhaps he faked it. ADHD and "breakdowns" are not the same.

Black and white reasoning is what police have said. Police have said that all three victims are dead, that there was a violent incident at the first crime scene, that they are still looking for the bodies. No one cares if Garland is ADHD, as it has no bearing on the charges, the trial, the conviction, or the sentence.

There is such stigma attached to mental illness still and such a lack of understanding of it and that`s sad. We are among mentally ill people everyday and probably are not even aware of it until perhaps they go postal or some such thing.

I feel that I have to argue the statement you make regarding ÀDHD and breakdowns not being the same. You are correct is saying this however, ADHD can cause a person to have a breakdown if there`s a stressful or overwhelming situation. Anything can cause a person to have a breakdown if the circumstances are right. If DG is mentally and/or emotionally fragile, darn right he could have a breakdown. Chances are good, that if he's guilty for this crime, he's going to have a huge breakdown. IMO. Then what? He could be mentally ill in a lockdown facility for years and years before ever being able to stand trial.

Well, I care if he has ADHD and everyone concerned about this case should care, because as I've said...if he has a breakdown, he may go to his grave untried for this crime.

JMO

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

When bipolar people are in the aggressive stage, are they loners?

Other than schizophrenia, what other mental issue occurs after puberty?

As for the claimed traffic accident, the accident where Matthew Hartley and his sister died could be found, so articles from 1980 are available on the net. If anything that Garland said about a vehicle accident was true, there is a record and it should be available since earlier records are available.

Many show themselves later in life, and many go undiagnosed for a lifetime.

Simply because one small town newspaper reported on a fatal car accident, and has decided to put their old archives online, doesn't mean that every small town newspaper reported on every car accident, and survived long enough to put their old papers online. That is a massive leap of logic.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Douglas lived with his parents, so they were probably used to highs and lows ... assuming he was bipolar. Garland is triggered by a sense of justice, rights and fairness. We know that based on his decision to take the Canadian government to court over fairness.

In this case, I think Garland is triggered by injustice, loss of rights and freedoms. That's what he was fighting for...justice, rights and freedoms.
You know, sometimes people go through their lives being treated like a doormat, I think that in itself could make a person angry enough at some point to say "Enough!" and start fighting back.