Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #15

[ABro]

My whole premise in life is that ALL people be treated with dignity and respect, and I've never made that a secret. I absolutely will not paint DG as a 'drug lord', murdering, pathetic human being publicly or otherwise, just because that is the opinion of the masses...I know nothing for sure about who he is or what he's done and will reserve judgement (if I even make one then...I am more likely to be compassionate for the futility of a life) about him once the trial is over.

Who are these masses? They're also people with opinions to whom you presumably accord dignity and respect as opposed to treating them as a mindless mob.

A life? I think it's three lives that have been lost including a child's. When you neglect to mention that, it can look as if you're trivializing those deaths while wringing your hands about the alleged killer. Context is everything.

 

[Cherchri]

Where does the "chemical manufacturing" part come from? All I see on the company page is that the company was set up in 2000, and the company products/services is
mercury. Thirteen years later he posted an online request for crop pesticide. He obviously doesn't have an income because when bail was set and the accused had to provide an address where he would live, there was discussion about a homeless shelter.

*sigh* this does get tedious... Was posted up the thread but here you are.... This is where it comes from:
P2 Solutions Ltd.
We are a small chemical manufacturing facility located in southern Alberta, Canada. We are seeking buyers for our high purity supply of elemental Mercury.
Another link as posted earlier.... Read company introduction
Tags: Canada Mercury Suppliershttp://canada.tradeford.com/ca270813/

 

[otto]

*sigh* this does get tedious... Was posted up the thread but here you are.... This is where it comes from:
P2 Solutions Ltd.
We are a small chemical manufacturing facility located in southern Alberta, Canada. We are seeking buyers for our high purity supply of elemental Mercury.
Another link as posted earlier.... Read company introduction
Tags: Canada Mercury Suppliershttp://canada.tradeford.com/ca270813/

There are two links to P2 Solutions. I was looking at the one where it states: "We are a small manufacturing company located in Airdrie, Alberta, Canada."
http://www.tradekey.com/company/P2-Solutions-Ltd-8382577.html
The other page does claim that it is a chemical manufacturing company.

Other than the two pages about a company that was set up in 2000, I have not been able to find any other information. It looks like a company in name, with a lot of false information associated with it. For example, does anyone actually believe that the annual revenue is US$1 Million - US$2.5 Million? The factory size is listed as: 1000 sqm to 3000 sqm. Is that a reference to one of the outbuildings on the property?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

What evidence is there that he was involved in the underground drug world? This link reminds me of all the company profiles that Alvin Liknes had: http://www.tradekey.com/company/P2-Solutions-Ltd-8382577.html. The company was established in 2000, and there doesn't seem to be any more information. It might be a company webpage with nothing behind it. Regarding the Ranchland Equipment Ltd company (Post Date: Aug 15,2013 Expiry Date:Feb 11,2014): "We are a Canadian company interested in the purchase of zinc phosphide ... Export packaging Please indicate MOQ and quantity disconts."

http://www.chemnet.com/Global/Offer-to-Buy/Zinc-phosphide-260509.html
http://www.tradekey.com/company/P2-Solutions-Ltd-8382577.html

Forty acres of crop fields filled with gophers can be a big problem. Is there any reason to believe that he wanted the pesticide for anything other than pest control?

"Zinc Phosphide is an inorganic chemical that is used to control rats, mice, voles, ground squirrels, prairie dogs, nutria, muskrats, feral rabbits and gophers. It is also uses as a tracking powder for the control of house mice. It is used on crop areas and on non-crop areas including lawns, golf courses, highway medians, and areas adjacent to wetlands. It may be formulated as a grain based bait, as scrap bait or as a paste. Rodenticide baits usually contain 2.0 percent of zinc phosphide."

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/pyrethrins-ziram/zinc-phosphide-ext.html

I just used underground drug world off the cuff, what I meant was he could have connections to the people who make and distribute drugs and he's their resident chemist/go to guy for vehicles, chemicals, IDs, to be used by people in the drug trade. When I say underground, I mean, under the table dealings (cash dealings, vehicle trading/lending, staying off the radar, etc.) I'm not trying to sound like I mean big movie mafia stuff, just drug trade dealings that are highly planned. DG seemed to be pretty off the radar, so he probably knows how.

Like the articles LoisLane posted - the guys who drive the semitrailers full of drugs who are driving across Canada or going through customs might like to have a fake ID on them if they get pulled over for speeding or something. These guys have to get these things from somewhere, again total speculation on my part.

And the chemicals and companies could be totally legit too and used on the farm.

 

[Cherchri]

There are two links to P2 Solutions. I was looking at the one where it states: "We are a small manufacturing company located in Airdrie, Alberta, Canada."
http://www.tradekey.com/company/P2-Solutions-Ltd-8382577.html
The other page does claim that it is a chemical manufacturing company.

Other than the two pages about a company that was set up in 2000, I have not been able to find any other information. It looks like a company in name, with a lot of false information associated with it. For example, does anyone actually believe that the annual revenue is US$1 Million - US$2.5 Million? The factory size is listed as: 1000 sqm to 3000 sqm. Is that a reference to one of the outbuildings on the property?

If we can't make assumptions about one thing then we can't about another. We can't assume that there was no factory.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It should also be pointed out that it simply may be for the purposes of buying and selling for profit. Import the Zinc Phosphide, and sell it to local farms for their own pest control. No manufacturing required.

I have my own theories, but it is entirely plausible the businesses were a legitimate source of income... or not.

So true, it's really hard to tell what was really going on. My ideas are a little far out I admit, it just *seems* like something had to be going on. I'd love to hear your theory too!

 

[LoisLane]

I think the police wanted to keep him in custody to eliminate the possibility that he vanished (like he did after the drug charges in 1992), or committed suicide. As soon as police had confirmation from the forensic lab, he was immediately re-arrested on the murder charges. When the accused was in custody for the identity theft, it seemed obvious to me that the prosecutor was using every delay tactic he could think of to keep the accused locked up. If there was any evidence of drug manufacturing, I would expect those charges to be added to the murder charges.

As well I want to point out the charges for the identify fraud were stayed and can be brought up at a later date, so if any other charges were or can be laid they will also be brought up at a later point. That could include possesion of chemicals for the purpose of manufacturing illegal drugs.

 

[Cherchri]

DG has other skills.....http://wikiparts.com/index2.php?opt..._id=1&Itemid=103&distributor_id=7752&pdf=lite


Ranchland Equipment Ltd.
Company Details
Business Type Manufacturer
Number of Company Employees 5–10 People
Annual Sales Volume/Revenue Below US$1 Million
Annual Revenue
Main Markets North America
Key Products / Services Bearings; Power Transmission ( Belts, Bushings, Chain, Couplings, Pulleys, Sprockets, Etc. ); Electric motors; Electrical components; Gear reducers; Maintenance products; Seals; Heavy Equipment Parts; Hydraulics
Description of Services Machine tool repair, Development, and Prototypes
Legal Representative / CEO
Year Established 2000
Tax ID / Business Registration Number
Contact Details
Web Address
Username Doug99
Contact Person Doug
E-mail [email protected]
Job Title Owner/Entrepreneur
Phone +1 (403) 948-6175
Fax +1 (403) 948-6175
Mobile Phone
Department

 

[LoriMcA]

I think we saw this way back when. I'm trying to determine what all the dangerous chemicals were that LE removed from the Airdrie acreage and what their various uses might be. All help welcome! Zinc phosphide
Inquiry
Post Date: Aug 15,2013
Expiry Date: Feb 11,2014
Detailed Description: Cas No. :1314-84-7
Zinc phosphide
Quality Standards: 80 % minimum content
Packing: Export packaging
We are a Canadian company interested in the purchase of zinc phosphide Please quote EXW, and the most economical freight option (ocean ) DDU to Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Export packaging Please indicate MOQ and quantity disconts. We look forward to your response and appreciate your time,


Company: Ranchland Equipment Ltd.
Contact: Mr. Douglas Garland
Tel: 1-403 948-6175
So the primary use for zinc phosphide is rodent control.

I don't know if the following is what you were asking for help on....but it's long-winded *as you know I can be*L*...

Hubby was a computing/chemistry dual major in Uni in the UK...his family was in freight forwarding....aka middle man between companies in regards to shipping goods nationally as well as internationally....He covers all modes of transportation ...his speciality being ocean/air as well as HAZMAT *where his chemistry came in handy*. So this info is from him ....when I saw all the shipping terms...I went with the expert of 22 years

Here goes:
Simple explanation

EXW - Ex-works - means the shipper is not responsible for freight costs, the consignee aka buyer is.

DDU is 'Delivered Duty Unpaid'.
This means the buyer (DG) is responsible for customs, duties and taxes.

Anyone who is knowledgeable in the freight business would not use DDU and EXW in the same sentence as they are equivalent to the same commercial terms.

As a matter of fact, DDU stopped being used in 2010 and EXW is still in effect in the 2013 Geneva Incoterms.

Incoterms are the international standards of negotiation of freight costs.

MOQ stands for 'minimum order quantity' referring to minimum amount that can be ordered from the seller/shipper/supplier.

For example the company supplying the goods may require 10 cases minimum for order to be shipped. In this request DG is also asking for any discounts which would apply for buying in bulk.


Quality standards of 80% minimum content means the zinc phosphide he requires has to be comprised of at least 80% zinc.


Packing: Export Packaging

This means the package (individual tubs/pails) would be vacuum sealed and preferably placed on non-wooden pallets. If the preferred plastic pallets are not available, the wooden pallets must be fumigated so they don't carry eggs, larvae or insects themselves. The entire package is then shrink wrapped whether it is plastic or wooden pallets. This stops anything from moving/shifting on the pallet in transit, and causing spillage or breaking of contents. Because this product is considered HAZMAT, in addition, a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) must accompany the goods so in case of breakage, spillage etc. an emergency response plan can be used.

Once it hits Vancouver or whatever port it comes into...it is then considered 'travelling in bond' which means it hasn't cleared customs. (technically it's not in Canada yet even though it physically is...if that makes sense).

This package would travel by rail from Vancouver to Calgary, as bonded truck is rare & very expensive & all rail freight is bonded & cost effective. (I am not mentioning air travel at all because DG specified most economical freight option (ocean), not by air which is the most expensive).

Once it reaches it's destination of Calgary Terminal for CN or CP Rail...the consignee/buyer (DG aka Ranchland Equipment) is notified & he has to go to customs which coincidentally is at YYC.

He then produces the packing list & commercial invoice...he pays the customs clearance cost, duties & taxes...they stamp his paperwork as 'cleared'. He can then travel to the CN/CP terminal & then he can arrange delivery to where he wants it delivered or take it himself.

Hope this helps somewhat...clear as mud yes?

 

[otto]

If we can't make assumptions about one thing then we can't about another. We can't assume that there was no factory.

I wonder what happened to the factory ... because it doesn't look like there's a factory on the acreage. However if there was a factory there in 2000, it's clearly long gone, so the business is probably long gone as well.

 

[otto]

So true, it's really hard to tell what was really going on. My ideas are a little far out I admit, it just *seems* like something had to be going on. I'd love to hear your theory too!

We know that Garland was designing something for the oil/gas industry for Alvin, designs that were later patented by Alvin.

 

[otto]

As well I want to point out the charges for the identify fraud were stayed and can be brought up at a later date, so if any other charges were or can be laid they will also be brought up at a later point. That could include possesion of chemicals for the purpose of manufacturing illegal drugs.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but is the idea that there is evidence of illegal drug manufacturing, but police will not lay charges at this time?

 

[Sillybilly]

I think we saw this way back when. I'm trying to determine what all the dangerous chemicals were that LE removed from the Airdrie acreage and what their various uses might be. All help welcome! Zinc phosphide
Inquiry
Post Date: Aug 15,2013
Expiry Date: Feb 11,2014
Detailed Description: Cas No. :1314-84-7
Zinc phosphide
Quality Standards: 80 % minimum content
Packing: Export packaging
We are a Canadian company interested in the purchase of zinc phosphide Please quote EXW, and the most economical freight option (ocean ) DDU to Calgary, Alberta, Canada. Export packaging Please indicate MOQ and quantity disconts. We look forward to your response and appreciate your time,


Company: Ranchland Equipment Ltd.
Contact: Mr. Douglas Garland
Tel: 1-403 948-6175
So the primary use for zinc phosphide is rodent control.

Had a recollection of an incident from the 1960s where a group of folks in southern Ontario were doing drugs, became violently ill, and it was determined that the drug had been laced with rat poison. It seems that rat poison is among various substances that have been used to increase the bulk of illegal drugs to produce higher profit:

http://www.namibian.com.na/indexx.php?archive_id=7722&page_type=archive_story_detail&page=6661

'Brenda Fassie's cocaine was laced with rat poison' ....

Drug dealers are known to add harmful substances to their
merchandise to increase their bulk, and the dealers' profit ...

from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d_with_rat_poison/+&cd=23&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Sergeant Gordon Reilly said: "We have seen strychnine rat poison in blocks of cannabis resin. That has been mixed in with cannabis resin for quite a while. It comes in from abroad, added in from the manufacturers within the warehouse. It gives it an extra buzz."

Not sure whether there would be a difference between rat poison made with strychnine used to bulk up the product, compared to a rat poison made with zinc phosphide.

If the goal was simply rodent control on the farm, wouldn't the average Joe Farmer in Alberta just go the local farm supply store for the product? Putting the info out on the net and asking for shipping costs, etc seems to indicate he could have been looking for more than what is normally used on the family farm.

 

[LoriMcA]

I'm sure with all of our discussions about Zinc Phosphide this has probably been posted but just in case it hasn't:
A very thorough fact sheet....

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/znptech.html

 

[Tinkerbel1]

BBM

I don't think there is a mass perception that the accused is manufacturing illegal drugs simply because he would be charged with those offences if there was evidence. I think there is a mass perception that he is involved in the murders of three people. That much has been reported by police.

There is also a mass assumption/speculation that he is guilty of those murders, which he may very well be. I drive....its a privilege in Canada. I vote...that is also a privilege in Canada. There is another privilege in Canada that all citizens should enjoy...it's commonly known as "innocent until proven guilty"...I hope that if I should ever find myself in need of this privilege (heaven forbid), that it be as solid and true as my other rights are. That is the premise of this wonderful country as opposed to some others...the amazing rights and freedoms that we have for all to enjoy. JMO

 

[LoisLane]

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but is the idea that there is evidence of illegal drug manufacturing, but police will not lay charges at this time?

Maybe I am misunderstanding. I will try saying it this way.. If police could lay further charges in relation to the chemicals they found on the Airdrie property they may do so at a later date. They may not want to disclose that evidence right now (if they have such evidence) as it could compromise the investigation.

 

[Cherchri]

I don't know if the following is what you were asking for help on....but it's long-winded *as you know I can be*L*...

Hubby was a computing/chemistry dual major in Uni in the UK...his family was in freight forwarding....aka middle man between companies in regards to shipping goods nationally as well as internationally....He covers all modes of transportation ...his speciality being ocean/air as well as HAZMAT *where his chemistry came in handy*. So this info is from him ....when I saw all the shipping terms...I went with the expert of 22 years

Here goes:
Simple explanation

EXW - Ex-works - means the shipper is not responsible for freight costs, the consignee aka buyer is.

DDU is 'Delivered Duty Unpaid'.
This means the buyer (DG) is responsible for customs, duties and taxes.

Anyone who is knowledgeable in the freight business would not use DDU and EXW in the same sentence as they are equivalent to the same commercial terms.

As a matter of fact, DDU stopped being used in 2010 and EXW is still in effect in the 2013 Geneva Incoterms.

Incoterms are the international standards of negotiation of freight costs.

MOQ stands for 'minimum order quantity' referring to minimum amount that can be ordered from the seller/shipper/supplier.

For example the company supplying the goods may require 10 cases minimum for order to be shipped. In this request DG is also asking for any discounts which would apply for buying in bulk.


Quality standards of 80% minimum content means the zinc phosphide he requires has to be comprised of at least 80% zinc.


Packing: Export Packaging

This means the package (individual tubs/pails) would be vacuum sealed and preferably placed on non-wooden pallets. If the preferred plastic pallets are not available, the wooden pallets must be fumigated so they don't carry eggs, larvae or insects themselves. The entire package is then shrink wrapped whether it is plastic or wooden pallets. This stops anything from moving/shifting on the pallet in transit, and causing spillage or breaking of contents. Because this product is considered HAZMAT, in addition, a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) must accompany the goods so in case of breakage, spillage etc. an emergency response plan can be used.

Once it hits Vancouver or whatever port it comes into...it is then considered 'travelling in bond' which means it hasn't cleared customs. (technically it's not in Canada yet even though it physically is...if that makes sense).

This package would travel by rail from Vancouver to Calgary, as bonded truck is rare & very expensive & all rail freight is bonded & cost effective. (I am not mentioning air travel at all because DG specified most economical freight option (ocean), not by air which is the most expensive).

Once it reaches it's destination of Calgary Terminal for CN or CP Rail...the consignee/buyer (DG aka Ranchland Equipment) is notified & he has to go to customs which coincidentally is at YYC.

He then produces the packing list & commercial invoice...he pays the customs clearance cost, duties & taxes...they stamp his paperwork as 'cleared'. He can then travel to the CN/CP terminal & then he can arrange delivery to where he wants it delivered or take it himself.

Hope this helps somewhat...clear as mud yes?

Thanks so much was looking for help on other uses for the product.

 

[Cherchri]

I'm sure with all of our discussions about Zinc Phosphide this has probably been posted but just in case it hasn't:
A very thorough fact sheet....

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/znptech.html

I was going to share it but thought better of it. Might as well have because the anticipated lashing happened regardless . The phosphine ref is most interesting.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Who are these masses? They're also people with opinions to whom you presumably accord dignity and respect as opposed to treating them as a mindless mob.

A life? I think it's three lives that have been lost including a child's. When you neglect to mention that, it can look as if you're trivializing those deaths while wringing your hands about the alleged killer. Context is everything.

I don't think I need to identify the masses, nor should I. I'm very sorry that your perception of my comment of the "masses" as those of a "mindless mob". That was not my intention or is it my belief. As to the comment regarding who I wring my hands over and who I don't, there is no cause for doubt as to my feelings towards the victims...I think its absolutely awful and they are in my thoughts and prayers everyday. Unfortunately, these people are gone...there is no way to bring them back, and that's terribly sad. So where do we go from here? The bible says, "an eye for an eye" but we don't have that as a law here...we are a civilized society. Do two wrongs make a right? Nope, that doesn't work either. We have a system here that will determine DG's guilt or innocence...we have not gotten that far yet. If he is guilty...he will be punished by our justice system, and hopefully not by vigilante justice seekers.
My compassion for DG is no less than what I would have for any human being. Should you, or your child or neighbor ever be in this position, I would afford you the same respect...and I would hope the same be done for me.
I do understand the outrage over this crime, but there's nothing that can be done to go back to June 28th and undo all of this. At the same time, I don't feel that DG (or anyone) should be persecuted without their day in court. And even with their day in court...criminals are still living, breathing human beings...there is not one person out there that has the power to judge the good and bad of him, that is not up to us...karma will mete out the punishment. Essentially, if DG is found guilty, then he made his bed and must lie in it. IMO, that's too bad too...wish he would've chosen another route.

 

[Cherchri]

Had a recollection of an incident from the 1960s where a group of folks in southern Ontario were doing drugs, became violently ill, and it was determined that the drug had been laced with rat poison. It seems that rat poison is among various substances that have been used to increase the bulk of illegal drugs to produce higher profit:

http://www.namibian.com.na/indexx.php?archive_id=7722&page_type=archive_story_detail&page=6661



from:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...d_with_rat_poison/+&cd=23&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca



Not sure whether there would be a difference between rat poison made with strychnine used to bulk up the product, compared to a rat poison made with zinc phosphide.

If the goal was simply rodent control on the farm, wouldn't the average Joe Farmer in Alberta just go the local farm supply store for the product? Putting the info out on the net and asking for shipping costs, etc seems to indicate he could have been looking for more than what is normally used on the family farm.

I would have thought it easy to purchase locally yes. Importing large quantities would imply it was to be sold on or used for something else. I have found some references to it being converted to phosphine which is of course used in the production of methamphetamine. That said, there are various recipes for production and they vary greatly.