Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

[LoisLane]

Police released information as necessary, and as it was confirmed, in order to solve the case. The initial Amber Alert was for Nathan and his grandfather, which suggests that there was clear evidence that Kathryn was mortally wounded (medical distress) at the Parkhill crime scene. Two weeks later, after DNA results were returned, the Amber Alert was cancelled, and police charged Garland with first degree murder. There's really nothing misleading about that. Everyone hoped that someone survived the home invasion. Two weeks later, all hope was removed.

After all hope was removed, police did ask everyone to keep their eyes open for bodies, and people in rural communities were asked to search their properties. That's fairly standard practice when someone is missing, presumed deceased, and presumed to be in a rural area.

It seems that the objection is that police did not immediately cancel the Amber Alert and declare the victims deceased, but that simply wasn't possible until there was confirmation that the victims could no longer be alive.

There is nothing misleading about that, if only they came out and said it the way you just did. I also think back to the police statements and press conferences and how confused they were and simple comments they made. It just makes me think that if there was significant blood at the home they would not have addressed the public in the ways that they did. I can pull examples later of such comments. I am going to head out and enjoy some nature today.

 

[otto]

There is nothing misleading about that, if only they came out and said it the way you just did. I also think back to the police statements and press conferences and how confused they were and simple comments they made. It just makes me think that if there was significant blood at the home they would not have addressed the public in the ways that they did. I can pull examples later of such comments. I am going to head out and enjoy some nature today.

Police said, up front, that it was a complete mystery. They pursued multiples avenues in their efforts to find a lead, including asking all people that attended the estate sale to register their names and provide photos of what they purchased. They didn't know where to begin, so they fanned out in every direction. Another avenue they pursued was requesting all video surveillance from people in the neighbourhood. They even flew to Mexico to investigate leads there. Essentially, we watched the case unfold from a complete mystery, to a confirmation that the victims were deceased and an arrest, all in two weeks. It can't get much better than that! The CPS did a remarkable job with this murder investigation.

 

[LoisLane]

Police said, up front, that it was a complete mystery. They pursued multiples avenues in their efforts to find a lead, including asking all people that attended the estate sale to register their names and provide photos of what they purchased. They didn't know where to begin, so they fanned out in every direction. Another avenue they pursued was requesting all video surveillance from people in the neighbourhood. They even flew to Mexico to investigate leads there. Essentially, we watched the case unfold from a complete mystery, to a confirmation that the victims were deceased and an arrest, all in two weeks. It can't get much better than that! The CPS did a remarkable job with this murder investigation.

CPS did a remarkable job. I have great respect for the police. The courts will determine the rest.

 

[LoisLane]

Does AL's twin brother live outside the country? Would the trip to Mexico be to confirm the twin brother and his activity was not actually AL?

 

[otto]

Does AL's twin brother live outside the country? Would the trip to Mexico be to confirm the twin brother and his activity was not actually AL?

Who knows. I don't recall seeing the twin brother at the first press conference, or anywhere, for that matter. Perhaps he's living full time in Mazatlan. I suspect that the police trip to Mazatlan was to learn more about Alvin's financial activities there. If his twin brother is there, I'm sure police tried to speak with him. After learning that the condo purchase in Mazatlan was a joint Liknes/Garland purchase, I have to wonder if that's a financial arrangement that pushed Douglas over the edge. I can't imagine that the elderly acreage owners would pitch in for a retirement condo in Mexico for the Liknes couple. Garland's sister, with three school ages children, probably doesn't have extra cash lying around for subsidizing the retirement of the Liknes couple ... Douglas and Alvin had a falling out seven years ago, so it's not likely Douglas pitched in for the condo. Who pitched in for the condo and why? Which of the Garlands could be convinced to hand over money to subsidize Alvin and Kathryn's retirement, and how would Douglas feel about it?

 

[LoisLane]

Who knows. I don't recall seeing the twin brother at the first press conference, or anywhere, for that matter. Perhaps he's living full time in Mazatlan. I suspect that the police trip to Mazatlan was to learn more about Alvin's financial activities there. If his twin brother is there, I'm sure police tried to speak with him. After learning that the condo purchase in Mazatlan was a joint Liknes/Garland purchase, I have to wonder if that's a financial arrangement that pushed Douglas over the edge. I can't imagine that the elderly acreage owners would pitch in for a retirement condo in Mexico for the Liknes couple. Garland's sister, with three school ages children, probably doesn't have extra cash lying around for subsidizing the retirement of the Liknes couple ... Douglas and Alvin had a falling out seven years ago, so it's not likely Douglas pitched in for the condo. Who pitched in for the condo and why? Which of the Garlands could be convinced to hand over money to subsidize Alvin and Kathryn's retirement, and how would Douglas feel about it?

Yes, the Garland/Liknes co-ownership is a bit strange. I wonder if that is a confused statement that was leaked. I kind of passed it off as Allen (wife PG) and his father co-owning. I believe FL is married to the twin brother and they frequent Mexico, (facebook pics) unless that was Alvin in the pic. I can't recall at the moment.

The condo could have been purchased many years ago and it could have created income as a rental when they were not occupying it.

 

[otto]

Yes, the Garland/Liknes co-ownership is a bit strange. I wonder if that is a confused statement that was leaked. I kind of passed it off as Allen (wife PG) and his father co-owning. I believe FL is married to the twin brother and they frequent Mexico, (facebook pics) unless that was Alvin in the pic. I can't recall at the moment.

That's what I assumed as well, except I haven't forgotten that it's been suggested here that her children may not be Allen's children ... and single mothers never have extra money to give to retiring couples so they can disappear to Mexico. If the money came from Allen, then it would not be a joint Garland/Liknes purchase. If the money came from the sister of Douglas, I could very easily see that Douglas would seriously question why she would do that ... what would motivate her to give thousands of dollars to a retiring couple when she has a young family to look after?

From links that were posted here weeks ago, I learned that two people are necessary to start a company in Mexico (Alvin and his twin brother?) and that a company can purchase property in Mexico. If that's the case, then it's quite likely that any Garland money that was supplied did not result in a name on the property title, but rather the title was in the name of the company. That would be enough for Douglas to be angry enough to murder, as he already felt that the Liknes couple had taken advantage of him. If he believed that they were also taking advantage of his sister, who knows what would happen. It was also suggested that Garland may have been coerced into investing in Alvin's failing businesses. Alvin knew that he was declaring bankruptcy months before it happened ... did Alvin encourage friends and extended family to invest money that would never be seen again?

Go and enjoy nature! I hear that a walk along the Bow river, with Indian Summer colours, is especially nice this time of year; notably so as the sun rises.

 

[LoisLane]

That's what I assumed as well, except I haven't forgotten that it's been suggested here that her children may not be Allen's children ... and single mothers never have extra money to give to retiring couples so they can disappear to Mexico. If the money came from Allen, then it would not be a joint Garland/Liknes purchase. If the money came from the sister of Douglas, I could very easily see that Douglas would seriously question why she would do that ... what would motivate her to give thousands of dollars to a retiring couple when she has a young family to look after?

From links that were posted here weeks ago, I learned that two people are necessary to start a company in Mexico (Alvin and his twin brother?) and that a company can purchase property in Mexico. If that's the case, then it's quite likely that any Garland money that was supplied did not result in a name on the property title, but rather the title was in the name of the company. That would be enough for Douglas to be angry enough to murder, as he already felt that the Liknes couple had taken advantage of him. If he believed that they were also taking advantage of his sister, who knows what would happen. It was also suggested that Garland may have been coerced into investing in Alvin's failing businesses. Alvin knew that he was declaring bankruptcy months before it happened ... did Alvin encourage friends and extended family to invest money that would never be seen again?

Go and enjoy nature! I hear that a walk along the Bow river, with Indian Summer colours, is especially nice this time of year; notably so as the sun rises.

On my way, fall is my favorite time of year!

I added to my last post so here it is in reply to your comment.

The condo could have been purchased many years ago and it could have created income as a rental when they were not occupying it.

 

[otto]

Fall Day

 

[Tinkerbel1]

NO could be comfort for KL and no one knows what else may be going on in the family dynamics.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

It's just a gut feeling, but I'm pretty sure that there's something at the crime scene that confirms, without bodies, that the grandparents are deceased. As I've said several times, I'm pretty sure that the scene is more horrific than people imagined. Before information about the extent of blood at the Parkhill house was leaked, I thought that if we omit Nathan from the equation, there may have been an assumption that the grandparents simply skipped town. The timing was right, as they'd wrapped up everything in Canada. I initially assumed that the only factor that caused Nathan's mom to phone police was that the family was missing. Now, I think it was evidence at the crime scene that left no doubt that not only was someone in medical distress, but people were murdered in the house.

In terms of timing, police said that they had fast tracked forensics and were waiting for results. Two weeks later, which is what it usually takes for DNA results, the victims were confirmed deceased and Douglas Garland was arrested. The timing had nothing to do with Nathan, and I doubt that there was any reason for the Liknes couple to be declared dead.

IMO, I feel that if this were the case about the crime scene...LE wouldn't have remained hopeful they were alive for two weeks.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I can't see them going to the house in Mexico if it can be traced back to them, they would have been caught by now. I am sure that housing wouldn't be an issue if they left the country. They could access something affordable, private, a rental online. I do not think they are capable of harming Nathan and that he would be with them. I think that if they did do this they would be seriously considering the wrong they have done and that they are in big trouble. I would hope they can keep calm and turn themselves in and not try to take it further. As for the blood I am not convinced the evidence at the house would be enough blood to indicate a death had taken place. LE has never stated that the blood and DNA confirms anything and so I have a problem with that. If a family member still believes they could be found alive I don't think we are too off-base in considering the idea.

I feel badly for thinking ill of the grandparents but something is just not right about them and I would take this theory over any other if it meant the grandparents and Nathan were alive and safe. Once the court proceedings start I am sure this will be a more straightforward forum but until evidence is presented I still believe they are alive. How would the case be jeopardized if LE released a simple statement to state that blood and DNA evidence is substantial enough to presume the victims are dead. They haven't even said that.

There are traceable connections to Panama if anyone cares to look.

 

[otto]

There are traceable connections to Panama if anyone cares to look.

There's a shell company that Alvin set up, but other than that, there doesn't seem to be much of a connection. Panama is a tax shelter, which is most likely why Alvin set up the company.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Police released information as necessary, and as it was confirmed, in order to solve the case. The initial Amber Alert was for Nathan and his grandfather, which suggests that there was clear evidence that Kathryn was mortally wounded (medical distress) at the Parkhill crime scene. Two weeks later, after DNA results were returned, the Amber Alert was cancelled, and police charged Garland with first degree murder. There's really nothing misleading about that. Everyone hoped that someone survived the home invasion. Two weeks later, all hope was removed.

After all hope was removed, police did ask everyone to keep their eyes open for bodies, and people in rural communities were asked to search their properties. That's fairly standard practice when someone is missing, presumed deceased, and presumed to be in a rural area.

It seems that the objection is that police did not immediately cancel the Amber Alert and declare the victims deceased, but that simply wasn't possible until there was confirmation that the victims could no longer be alive.

IMO, a misleading statement is one such as "there was clear evidence that Kathryn was mortally wounded (medical distress) at the Parkhill crime scene". Or, it's at the very least, a huge assumption. The words "medical distress" does not necessarily indicate that someone was "mortally wounded". It could be as simple as someone who is diabetic not having their insulin. JMO.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

I wonder if NO was kept out of the equation where would this investigation lead? Would they be confirmed dead already? Would there have been assumptions that they left the country to avoid financial circumstances? The process was sped up because of NO and they were comfirmed dead within weeks of the disappearance. Maybe the L's really needed to be classified as dead and this was the quickest way to get there.

That's a very interesting "what if". LE, in theory, would still have the alleged blood evidence at the house, and the truck picture, so the case still may have ended up where it is now. How much NO being there caused chaos and mistakes is the question.

 

[otto]

IMO, a misleading statement is one such as "there was clear evidence that Kathryn was mortally wounded (medical distress) at the Parkhill crime scene". Or, it's at the very least, a huge assumption. The words "medical distress" does not necessarily indicate that someone was "mortally wounded". It could be as simple as someone who is diabetic not having their insulin. JMO.

Given what we know, was Kathryn a diabetic, or was she murdered at the Parkhill home? Someone was in medical distress, and an Amber Alert was issued for Alvin and Nathan. That suggests that police had no reason to believe that Kathryn was alive and well and travelling, but there was still hope that Alvin and Nathan were alive, well, and mobile.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Given what we know, was Kathryn a diabetic, or was she murdered at the Parkhill home? Someone was in medical distress, and an Amber Alert was issued for Alvin and Nathan. That suggests that police had no reason to believe that Kathryn was alive and well and travelling, but there was still hope that Alvin and Nathan were alive, well, and mobile.

I'm not sure that there's any indication as to the health history of any of the family members. LE hasn't disclosed much about anything in this case, so there's no reason to believe they would share any information on the victims' health status. We don't know if KL was murdered at the Parkhill home at all, LE did disclose that someone would be in "medical distress". IMO, that does not mean deceased. We don't know where any of this family were murdered for that matter, our conclusions have basically all been drawn through deduction and speculation. My point simply is, "medical distress" does not connotate death. LE has not stated this, and IMO, I don't feel that it should be assumed. There may have been a "lookout" posted for AL and NO only, because KL may not have been well enough to travel or go out and about, etc. It does not, for certain, mean she was not alive. Further, I'm not sure why we're assuming that it was KL that was in medical distress? Simply because it was mentioned that AL and NO were seen after the disappearance? As mentioned, it could be that perhaps she was either laying down, or she was not well enough to go out at the time.

This brings up another point, if NO and AL were "seen" after their disappearance, then they must have been seen with someone...if they were seen with someone, then there would've been mention of that. If there was no mention, then I would assume it means they were seen alone. If this is were the case, and they were "alive, well and mobile", then why had they not gone in to the first LE station accessible being victims of crime and KL possibly deceased? It doesn't make sense that the two of them were seen with no one else. Strange.

I believe, Amber Alerts are issued for children, so it would've been for NO and not both of them.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I can't see them going to the house in Mexico if it can be traced back to them, they would have been caught by now. I am sure that housing wouldn't be an issue if they left the country. They could access something affordable, private, a rental online. I do not think they are capable of harming Nathan and that he would be with them. I think that if they did do this they would be seriously considering the wrong they have done and that they are in big trouble. I would hope they can keep calm and turn themselves in and not try to take it further. As for the blood I am not convinced the evidence at the house would be enough blood to indicate a death had taken place. LE has never stated that the blood and DNA confirms anything and so I have a problem with that. If a family member still believes they could be found alive I don't think we are too off-base in considering the idea.

I feel badly for thinking ill of the grandparents but something is just not right about them and I would take this theory over any other if it meant the grandparents and Nathan were alive and safe. Once the court proceedings start I am sure this will be a more straightforward forum but until evidence is presented I still believe they are alive. How would the case be jeopardized if LE released a simple statement to state that blood and DNA evidence is substantial enough to presume the victims are dead. They haven't even said that.

Excellent points...every last one of them! I wholeheartedly agree. If you step back and look at the entire situation, it's like the puzzle pieces being put together with a hammer. Makes a good picture...but there's something not quite right about it.

I don't think you need to apologize for "thinking ill" of the grandparents...I don't think you've chosen to do that, it's a little hard not to think it. IMO, you're just saying what a lot of others are probably thinking. Again, if you look at everything that we DO know, it's a little hard not to think that something's amiss here...it looks to me that there is more reason for them to disappear, than there is for DG to have done something to them. JMO, and that's based on what we DO know for sure. Unfortunately, we have to wait and see what the evidence reveals...likely after the trial, unless something unforeseen happens prior to that.

 

[otto]

I'm not sure that there's any indication as to the health history of any of the family members. LE hasn't disclosed much about anything in this case, so there's no reason to believe they would share any information on the victims' health status. We don't know if KL was murdered at the Parkhill home at all, LE did disclose that someone would be in "medical distress". IMO, that does not mean deceased. We don't know where any of this family were murdered for that matter, our conclusions have basically all been drawn through deduction and speculation. My point simply is, "medical distress" does not connotate death. LE has not stated this, and IMO, I don't feel that it should be assumed. There may have been a "lookout" posted for AL and NO only, because KL may not have been well enough to travel or go out and about, etc. It does not, for certain, mean she was not alive. Further, I'm not sure why we're assuming that it was KL that was in medical distress? Simply because it was mentioned that AL and NO were seen after the disappearance? As mentioned, it could be that perhaps she was either laying down, or she was not well enough to go out at the time.

This brings up another point, if NO and AL were "seen" after their disappearance, then they must have been seen with someone...if they were seen with someone, then there would've been mention of that. If there was no mention, then I would assume it means they were seen alone. If this is were the case, and they were "alive, well and mobile", then why had they not gone in to the first LE station accessible being victims of crime and KL possibly deceased? It doesn't make sense that the two of them were seen with no one else. Strange.

I believe, Amber Alerts are issued for children, so it would've been for NO and not both of them.

We know that there were homicides at the Parkhill crime scene. There's no reason that we should forget, or omit, the facts. We know that Kathryn was not included in the Amber Alert. We know that someone was in medical distress, and we can use sound reasoning to conclude that Kathryn was the first confirmed victim at the crime scene.

Nathan and Alvin were not seen with anyone after they were murdered, other than in the back of Garland's truck.

http://crimemap.calgarypolice.ca/content/DisclaimerPage.aspx

 

[deugirtni]

I had never heard/read that NO and AL's murdered bodies were seen in the back of DG's truck. Could you please provide that link? Thank you.

...Nathan and Alvin were not seen with anyone after they were murdered, other than in the back of Garland's truck.