Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

[Lalalacasbah]

Does AL's twin brother live outside the country? Would the trip to Mexico be to confirm the twin brother and his activity was not actually AL?

I just snooped KL's FB photos, and there's a pic (from 2008) in Mexico that says 'F & A's condo' but with their full names. So back then sounds like they had a condo there around (another photos is captioned 'Mazatlan Mexico Malicon' but it's suppose to be Malecon) the Malecon area.

But they have their own business in Evansburg I think don't they? So they might go back and forth(?)

 

[LoisLane]

There are traceable connections to Panama if anyone cares to look.

Yes! Panama has been brought up a few times. I have followed a few trails and they have ended up in Panama. Stan would probably have the best intel on that.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I googled AL and Panama and some info on AFK Holdings came up, as well as other persons connected to AFK Holdings.

Stan and/or other sleuthers probably found this already, so I don't think anything new here. But will post in case…

http://ohuiginn.net/panama/company/id/542288

 

[LoisLane]

I just snooped KL's FB photos, and there's a pic (from 2008) in Mexico that says 'F & A's condo' but with their full names. So back then sounds like they had a condo there around (another photos is captioned 'Mazatlan Mexico Malicon' but it's suppose to be Malecon) the Malecon area.

But they have their own business in Evansburg I think don't they? So they might go back and forth(?)

Yes, I was just checking that out as well. I wonder if they own together or in the same complex. Maybe they were planning on spending the winter together or taking turns in Mexico and helping out with the Evansburg business. It must be confusing to have a twin brother in relation to sightings and especially at the beginning of the investigation. The tips must have pointed to Allen Liknes (the brother) a few times. So many similar and same names in this family.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, I was just checking that out as well. I wonder if they own together or in the same complex. Maybe they were planning on spending the winter together or taking turns in Mexico and helping out with the Evansburg business. It must be confusing to have a twin brother in relation to sightings and especially at the beginning of the investigation. The tips must have pointed to Allen Liknes (the brother) a few times. So many similar and same names in this family.

Yes so true, very confusing.

Also at the end of the photo album I looked at, I think there's photos of PG's kids and looks like they probably are ALJr's children as they look very much like him they both have J names, and one has the last name Liknes. I'm not sure if the photo of the little girl (M name) is PG's child, but I think so.

Also, sadly, I think there's a picture of NO's brother L and PG's son J together in costume. That's gotta be hard on PG's kids too, knowing their cousin is gone

 

[LoisLane]

I'm not sure that there's any indication as to the health history of any of the family members. LE hasn't disclosed much about anything in this case, so there's no reason to believe they would share any information on the victims' health status. We don't know if KL was murdered at the Parkhill home at all, LE did disclose that someone would be in "medical distress". IMO, that does not mean deceased. We don't know where any of this family were murdered for that matter, our conclusions have basically all been drawn through deduction and speculation. My point simply is, "medical distress" does not connotate death. LE has not stated this, and IMO, I don't feel that it should be assumed. There may have been a "lookout" posted for AL and NO only, because KL may not have been well enough to travel or go out and about, etc. It does not, for certain, mean she was not alive. Further, I'm not sure why we're assuming that it was KL that was in medical distress? Simply because it was mentioned that AL and NO were seen after the disappearance? As mentioned, it could be that perhaps she was either laying down, or she was not well enough to go out at the time.

This brings up another point, if NO and AL were "seen" after their disappearance, then they must have been seen with someone...if they were seen with someone, then there would've been mention of that. If there was no mention, then I would assume it means they were seen alone. If this is were the case, and they were "alive, well and mobile", then why had they not gone in to the first LE station accessible being victims of crime and KL possibly deceased? It doesn't make sense that the two of them were seen with no one else. Strange.

I believe, Amber Alerts are issued for children, so it would've been for NO and not both of them.

I am going to take a look at the AA again, it was a very confusing alert when it was issued. Was there a reported sighting of Alvin and Nathan?

 

[LoisLane]

I googled AL and Panama and some info on AFK Holdings came up, as well as other persons connected to AFK Holdings.

Stan and/or other sleuthers probably found this already, so I don't think anything new here. But will post in case…

http://ohuiginn.net/panama/company/id/542288

Do you think the Mary E could be linked to Mary S? She sure has a lot of companies!

 

[LoisLane]

Yes so true, very confusing.

Also at the end of the photo album I looked at, I think there's photos of PG's kids and looks like they probably are ALJr's children as they look very much like him they both have J names, and one has the last name Liknes. I'm not sure if the photo of the little girl (M name) is PG's child, but I think so.

Also, sadly, I think there's a picture of NO's brother L and PG's son J together in costume. That's gotta be hard on PG's kids too, knowing their cousin is gone

Yes, I saw lots of photos of Nathan today and he was loved so much by all the children. He is such a sweet little guy, full of joy and love.

I see a strong resemblance with the children of PG and AL. I think they are still together.

 

[LoisLane]

Who knows. I don't recall seeing the twin brother at the first press conference, or anywhere, for that matter. Perhaps he's living full time in Mazatlan. I suspect that the police trip to Mazatlan was to learn more about Alvin's financial activities there. If his twin brother is there, I'm sure police tried to speak with him. After learning that the condo purchase in Mazatlan was a joint Liknes/Garland purchase, I have to wonder if that's a financial arrangement that pushed Douglas over the edge. I can't imagine that the elderly acreage owners would pitch in for a retirement condo in Mexico for the Liknes couple. Garland's sister, with three school ages children, probably doesn't have extra cash lying around for subsidizing the retirement of the Liknes couple ... Douglas and Alvin had a falling out seven years ago, so it's not likely Douglas pitched in for the condo. Who pitched in for the condo and why? Which of the Garlands could be convinced to hand over money to subsidize Alvin and Kathryn's retirement, and how would Douglas feel about it?

I also wonder... if DG has such a problem with his family being involved financially with the L's why he didn't go after Allen rather than Alvin.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Do you think the Mary E could be linked to Mary S? She sure has a lot of companies!

I wondered that too, but I think the ME is an agent and maybe not business person or partner(?) I can't tell and don't know how this all works in Panama. I wish I knew Spanish! Actually, KL has on her LinkedIn page under languages 'little Spanish'.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I also wonder... if DG has such a problem with his family being involved financially with the L's why he didn't go after Allen rather than Alvin.

Good point LL, maybe Alvin was in charge? Maybe everyone handed him their investment and he would handle it. And then maybe it didn't follow through, or the deal wasn't done fairly somehow. I'm just theorizing, and this is JMO of course!

 

[stan laurel]

I also wonder... if DG has such a problem with his family being involved financially with the L's why he didn't go after Allen rather than Alvin.

because allen was with dg's sister, so he must like his sister enough to consider her part of the family.

btw, fl and al/twin are no longer together, and their company is ran by their son now who is an LL but goes by LF.

 

[stan laurel]

you know, besides one link, AL did everything by the books and though we might see his dealings as clandestine, they are not illegal (thank Jean Chretien for that/panama). IMO AL had money and enough to make some bitter and I don't think Mr. Bitter was DG,, DG was Mr. Jilted, and together their anger was compounded. I still hold firm that if there was a murder there were two involved.

Then I vacillate in thinking and go into, AL has cash and bolted with KL and NO.

There is evidence to suggest that medical distress equates to murder, which I guess it does when you have the tools to say so, but,,,

in my home you can find salt, pepper, mushrooms, onions, a BBQ, briquettes, cutlery including steak knives, or evidence to suggest that I like to BBQ steak. However, if you look in my freezer or at my grocery bills for the last 5 years, you will be quick to notice that I haven't had steak (I know, I know, all true Albertans love their steak but after working around cattle and farms,, well we'll leave it at that).

At DG's property there is evidence to suggest that he has very caustic chemicals and enough to disappear people,, at the Parkhill home there was enough evidence to suggest distress,, at my neighbours backyard their is evidence to suggest poor gardening skills, and so forth.

Due to this, I am stuck on a fence with a bucket of buts and ifs, and to be quite honest, I think that LE is sort of there too.

my flamesuit is on.

 

[otto]

I had never heard/read that NO and AL's murdered bodies were seen in the back of DG's truck. Could you please provide that link? Thank you.

The accused has a pick up truck. Three injured or deceased people were removed from the Parkhill house. They wouldn't fit in the cab of the truck. I wonder how they were removed from the house? There are drag marks leading from the house to the parking spot in front of the house. I'm pretty sure that a wheel barrow wasn't used. I don't have a link for logic, but the only possibility is that they were removed in the back of the pickup truck.

Is there another way that a man with a pickup truck would remove three bodies from a crime scene?

 

[otto]

I am going to take a look at the AA again, it was a very confusing alert when it was issued. Was there a reported sighting of Alvin and Nathan?

There were sightings all across Canada.

 

[ABro]

CPS did a remarkable job. I have great respect for the police. The courts will determine the rest.

I'm curious how you reconcile saying the police did a remarkable job with the theory you keep propounding according to which:

1) they arrested the wrong guy for murder
2) they let the real murderers escape
3) they misinformed the public about an issue involving public safety

How much worse a job could they do?

 

[otto]

you know, besides one link, AL did everything by the books and though we might see his dealings as clandestine, they are not illegal (thank Jean Chretien for that/panama). IMO AL had money and enough to make some bitter and I don't think Mr. Bitter was DG,, DG was Mr. Jilted, and together their anger was compounded. I still hold firm that if there was a murder there were two involved.

Then I vacillate in thinking and go into, AL has cash and bolted with KL and NO.

There is evidence to suggest that medical distress equates to murder, which I guess it does when you have the tools to say so, but,,,

in my home you can find salt, pepper, mushrooms, onions, a BBQ, briquettes, cutlery including steak knives, or evidence to suggest that I like to BBQ steak. However, if you look in my freezer or at my grocery bills for the last 5 years, you will be quick to notice that I haven't had steak (I know, I know, all true Albertans love their steak but after working around cattle and farms,, well we'll leave it at that).

At DG's property there is evidence to suggest that he has very caustic chemicals and enough to disappear people,, at the Parkhill home there was enough evidence to suggest distress,, at my neighbours backyard their is evidence to suggest poor gardening skills, and so forth.

Due to this, I am stuck on a fence with a bucket of buts and ifs, and to be quite honest, I think that LE is sort of there too.

my flamesuit is on.

BBM

What sort of chemicals were at the acreage belonging to the parents of the accused that could be used to make people disappear, and how are those chemical different than what is normally found on a farm, or in an urban household?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

We know that there were homicides at the Parkhill crime scene. There's no reason that we should forget, or omit, the facts. We know that Kathryn was not included in the Amber Alert. We know that someone was in medical distress, and we can use sound reasoning to conclude that Kathryn was the first confirmed victim at the crime scene.

Nathan and Alvin were not seen with anyone after they were murdered, other than in the back of Garland's truck.

http://crimemap.calgarypolice.ca/content/DisclaimerPage.aspx

What do you mean "other than in the back of Garland's truck"? They most certainly were not seen there, unless I've missed a huge piece of extremely vital information. If they were not seen with anyone, then why did AL not go to the CPS station, or RCMP station to report the crime? Logical thinking suggests that would be the place one would be headed to directly.

It has always baffled me as to what concrete evidence we have that has been confirmed by LE, that it was KL that was deceased first? That's based on...? What is the crieteria for the "sound reasoning" that is being used? Again, I must be missing something.

Amber Alerts are issued in the cases of the most dangerous "missing children" situations. They are not issued for adults.

https://missingkids.ca/app/en/amber_alert-criteria

 

[Tinkerbel1]

BBM

What sort of chemicals were at the acreage belonging to the parents of the accused that could be used to make people disappear, and how are those chemical different than what is normally found on a farm, or in an urban household?

Lye is a chemical commonly found on farms I would think. I know that my family uses lye quite regularly in the outhouses at the lake, which is just the best idea ever! Lye can be used to make a person disappear, at least down to bones. There are pesticides, herbicides, rat poison, etc. that can certainly kill a person...a lot of us have that at our homes. They have the capacity to kill a person, and if you so happened to have a barrel and some lye (as Cherchri suggests), easy enough work in the garage. It doesn't have to be on the acreage. And it doesnt' have to be an outrageous, uncommon chemical. Naptha soap granules can kill you. Anything that could possibly be involved in a murder was likely taken from the acreage as "possible" methods of homicide/disposal. Any chemicals taken from the acreage weren't necessarily the type to make someone "disappear", they may have been chemicals that could simply kill someone if ingested or injected, or whatever. IMO whatever there was that could "possibly" be used in the deaths and or disposal of a human being (or animal) was taken as possible options. LE had basically one shot at collecting whatever they could collect at the acreage. The victims could have "disappeared" in a myriad of ways....water bodies, burial, dismemberment...none of which may or may not have occurred on the Garlands' property.

Do we have any indication of "exactly" what was taken as far as chemicals from the Garland property? Or,are we assuming again?

 

[LoisLane]

I'm curious how you reconcile saying the police did a remarkable job with the theory you keep propounding according to which:

1) they arrested the wrong guy for murder
2) they let the real murderers escape
3) they misinformed the public about an issue involving public safety

How much worse a job could they do?

In this theory I thing DG was involved to a degree. Possibly not murder. I am clear that I don't think they are dead. Show me proof of bodies or make a statement that blood and DNA proves it and I will reconsider. Other murderers wouldn't have gotten away unless they were assisting DG but I don't think they are dead.

CPS did a remarkable job. They committed tremendous manpower and resources and built a case piece- by-piece. They may have missed a piece or the piece just won't fit. Also, they are missing 3 pieces. The courts will sort through all that.

The police never said that the Public's safety was in jeopardy.