Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

[deugirtni]

I think that it was stated that it was a 'bank card', but many on WS were saying 'credit card', could that be the confusion?

I don't know but as far as the credit card bit, I could have swore something like that was stated around the time I signed onto WS.

 

[LoriMcA]

Copied this from a previous thread:
Note: the comment regarding financial activity is not here

Originally posted by wendisan:

^^rsbm

I'm wondering if this is the 'bank talk' you were possibly thinking of Lois.....

Previously posted by wendisan including a link to the conversation on video:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-Maps-amp-Timeline*&p=10762682#post10762682

this quote by Crown Prosecutor Shane Parker:

"Reporter: Can you tell us in general about those circumstances you used in the past and just what you look for?

SP: Sure. The circumstances we typically look for are banking activity or non-banking activity, lack of contact with people, we look at the crime scene itself. In this case, we've also looked at the fact that there's been no ransom notes provided. So we're looking at factors generally like that. We've looked at in cases that are before the courts now, and also that I've dealt with in the past."

I know which site I saw the 'beer & relationship break down' comment...but it's a blog...and it's in the comments section...someone mentioned the quote you were talking about....IIRC...we can't post that here as it's not msm and the comments are opinion...so I'm still looking to find that video/actual comment also....

 

[LoriMcA]

wow, great post; there could have been 5 people or more, that is an incredible risk to plan. unless someone tipped him off and told him there would be no guests (not knowing about the short notice guest).

BBM
Who would the 5 or more be...do you mean the 3 possible adults and say JO ...CH or other family/friends that were there that day for the sale?...

I know I'd just been thinking about it because mine stayed thru uni at home...and for a bit after...so I wondered where JL was..

I've always wondered about there being another person/s involved...I don't have a specific reason I think that...I just do...MOO

Another possibility he may not have taken into account....
What if someone at the sale bought a large piece...but had to come back later to pick up with a truck...around 10-10:30ish...that would have been quite the unexpected interruption for him if he'd come to the house right after JO left and then in the midst of everything...a knock at the door....

Another question that was on my mind that has never been answered.....

What was the 'disturbance/?' that happened at the hotel in Airdrie...where he was asked to leave?

I've always wondered what he'd done to get kicked out...and why...he didn't just call his attorney rather than risk walking away and breaking his curfew...and being re-arrested...
JMOO & just thinking out loud basically...

 

[deugirtni]

It has been reported numerous times in numerous MSM that there was 'bad blood' between AL and DG. And yet this MSM news report refers to a telephone interview directly with ALJr, wherein ALJr stated that the business relationship between the two had NOT ended on a bad note. And yet following this, other MSM who had NOT personally interviewed ALJr started reporting there WAS bad blood, and then it became LE's 'leading theory'.

First, considering that ALJr was both AL's son, and also married to DG's own sister (according also to AL, and yet various MSM also seem to get that part wrong by repeatedly reporting them as common-law), you might surmise that of all of the people who might know anything about this, it might be ALJr who would know most about the business relationship and how it ended and when the two last had contact etc. That is MOO.

July 8, 2014
video is currently 03:18 minutes long
Reid Feist
at approximately 1;20 into the video (until approx 2;45)
I have typed what the news reporter said, I believe it to be word for word, other than missing any hums/haws/uhhs; there is NO doubt however, that the reporter did say 'DIDN'T' end on a bad note, the 't' sound is definitely present:

"We do have a little bit more information about Douglas Garland, the person of interest in this case; we spoke to Allen Liknes who is the son of the missing Alvin Liknes; he is married to Garland's sister; and so he told us today on the phone that he was surprised the family was to see Douglas Garland's green pickup, or what appeared to be his pickup, in the pictures last Friday;

"He doesn't believe Douglas Garland and his father Alvin Liknes had spoken in about 7 years. Douglas worked for Alvin but apparently when that business faltered, the working relationship ended. It didn't end on a bad note though apparently.

"Allen last saw Douglas Garland at Thanksgiving at his in-laws' last fall but he noted that he said Douglas was a bit of a loner and he didn't speak to him that much.

"So a little bit more in terms of the connection, which is a pretty obvious part of this investigation here.

Again at 2pm this afternoon we expect some more details as the police and RCMP will update us for the first time since Saturday, but they are warning us that there likely will not be huge developments in this case as the search here at this part of northern H, Airdrie rather, continues here this noon hour."

http://globalnews.ca/video/1439105/amber-alert-police-continue-search-near-airdrie"]http://globalnews.ca/video/1439105/amber-alert-police-continue-search-near-airdrie[/URL]
--------------
Then on July 10th, CBC says the opposite:

CBC News has learned Winter Petroleum, a junior gas company that was owned by Alvin Liknes, went bankrupt near the end of June — just days before the family went missing.

Sources say a business deal between Liknes and Douglas Garland, who police initially called a "person of interest" in the case and was later charged with murder in connection with the deaths of the Likneses and their grandson, went sour. The collapse of the business deal led to "bad blood," police said.

Alvin Liknes had previously registered a patent for an apparatus that separates gas from water. Family members confirmed to CBC News that the patent was a sore point between Liknes and Garland, who had worked together in the past.

Police confirmed they are looking into the business relationship between Garland and Liknes.

.... Alvin Liknes's son is in a common-law relationship with Garland’s sister.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-disappearance-could-be-connected-to-patent-dispute-1.2702103
----
Then on July 15th, the 'bad blood' is LE's 'leading theory' ?

"The man also has a connection to the Liknes family: Alvin Liknes’ son is married to Garland’s sister. A family member said Liknes and Garland had a falling out several years ago, after a business deal ended badly. A police source speaking on condition of anonymity called the bad business relationship a “leading theory” for the potential motive in the crime, according to The National Post."

http://globalnews.ca/news/1451758/who-is-calgary-triple-murder-suspect-douglas-garland/

 

[otto]

I had steak today.

Did it leave 25 feet of dark liquid drag marks?

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

It has been reported numerous times in numerous MSM that there was 'bad blood' between AL and DG. And yet this MSM news report refers to a telephone interview directly with ALJr, wherein ALJr stated that the business relationship between the two had NOT ended on a bad note. And yet following this, other MSM who had NOT personally interviewed ALJr started reporting there WAS bad blood, and then it became LE's 'leading theory'.

First, considering that ALJr was both AL's son, and also married to DG's own sister (according also to AL, and yet various MSM also seem to get that part wrong by repeatedly reporting them as common-law), you might surmise that of all of the people who might know anything about this, it might be ALJr who would know most about the business relationship and how it ended and when the two last had contact etc. That is MOO.

July 8, 2014
video is currently 03:18 minutes long
Reid Feist
at approximately 1;20 into the video (until approx 2;45)
I have typed what the news reporter said, I believe it to be word for word, other than missing any hums/haws/uhhs; there is NO doubt however, that the reporter did say 'DIDN'T' end on a bad note, the 't' sound is definitely present:



http://globalnews.ca/video/1439105/amber-alert-police-continue-search-near-airdrie"]http://globalnews.ca/video/1439105/amber-alert-police-continue-search-near-airdrie[/URL]
--------------
Then on July 10th, CBC says the opposite:



http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/nathan-o-brien-disappearance-could-be-connected-to-patent-dispute-1.2702103
----
Then on July 15th, the 'bad blood' is LE's 'leading theory' ?



http://globalnews.ca/news/1451758/who-is-calgary-triple-murder-suspect-douglas-garland/

Assuming we are hearing the complete truth... that is. He may not have been privy to the actual events of the alleged dispute, or may not want to disclose all the details to the entire world.

 

[otto]

Very interesting.. I am wondering though.. does 'google' have the authority to 'cut' a video which was done by a MSM?

When online content outside of the EU disappears, it's usually because the hosting website either overwrites the information, or removes it.

Google removing 'right to be forgotten' search links in Europe

"Google has begun removing search links to content in Europe under the "right to be forgotten" ruling, which obliges it not to point to web pages with "outdated or irrelevant" information about individuals.

Searches made on Google's services in Europe using peoples' names includes a section at the bottom with the phrase "Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe", and a link to a page explaining the ruling by the European court of justice (ECJ) in May 2014.

However searches made on Google.com, the US-based service, do not include the same warning, because the ECJ ruling only applies within Europe."

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/26/google-removing-right-to-be-forgotten-links

 

[otto]

Assuming we are hearing the complete truth... that is. He may not have been privy to the actual events of the alleged dispute, or may not want to disclose all the details to the entire world.

Allen did disclose the reason for the dispute. He claimed that it was a "petty" disagreement related to Garland's belief that he should be better compensated for patent design work.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

A brief timeline of what was happening between July 11-13th when LE decided the case was a homicide, so makes me think something maybe happened or was found? Or maybe not, as Chief Hanson mentioned it 'wasn't a corner they turned' but the building of evidence.

July 11: Garland is released from police custody on bail and given strict conditions, including instructions not to return to his parents’ Airdrie farm where police were still conducting searches.
July 12: Police return to the Liknes home to conduct more searches even as they continue to sweep the Airdrie property and local landfills.
July 13: Police conclude searching the Liknes home but say the investigation continues at the Airdrie property and local landfills.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...arged-with-murders-of-missing-calgary-family/

ETA - "Calgary city police sift through articles in the garage on Saturday July 12, 2014 of the home where five-year-old Nathan O'Brien and his grandparents Alvin and Kathryn Liknes went missing in Parkhill in SW Calgary" (BBM). Maybe something with DG's DNA was found in the garage or victim's DNA on an object in the garage.

http://www.intelligencer.ca/2014/07...ll-home-where-calgary-family-disappeared-from

View attachment 60819

I have a question. Somewhere in another thread, there was discussion about DG being caught on the 'neighbors' porch and it was suggested that this would be a good vantage point to view the Garland acreage from, perhaps to see if the area he had possibly hidden or disposed of the bodies could be seen. I'm not sure if this is in fact true or if he were caught on his own property. If the bail conditions state that he was not to return to his "parents' Airdrie farm", then how does being caught at the neighbors farm, or in the field constitute him breaking his bail conditions?

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Are you volunteering? lol, now that would be a lot of work, but I sure would love to see that

Now there's a good idea! Maybe...I didn't think that far...lol. I will think on that and see what I have time to do. If one appears, then you'll know I did it!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I had steak today.

Lol...and I'm making soap! (Giving it to some of my family for Christmas!)

 

[LoisLane]

^^rsbm

I'm wondering if this is the 'bank talk' you were possibly thinking of Lois.....

Previously posted by wendisan including a link to the conversation on video:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ia-Maps-amp-Timeline*&p=10762682#post10762682

this quote by Crown Prosecutor Shane Parker:

"Reporter: Can you tell us in general about those circumstances you used in the past and just what you look for?

SP: Sure. The circumstances we typically look for are banking activity or non-banking activity, lack of contact with people, we look at the crime scene itself. In this case, we've also looked at the fact that there's been no ransom notes provided. So we're looking at factors generally like that. We've looked at in cases that are before the courts now, and also that I've dealt with in the past."

I know which site I saw the 'beer & relationship break down' comment...but it's a blog...and it's in the comments section...someone mentioned the quote you were talking about....IIRC...we can't post that here as it's not msm and the comments are opinion...so I'm still looking to find that video/actual comment also....

Great find Lori! I think it pretty much touches on what was said. I clearly remember Chief Hanson being the one and it was during the press conference and it was a more simplified and direct response.

This is an excellent reference and I am so glad you brought it up to the front of the thread! We should have a thread for these formal statements as it is very time consuming to search those threads. Thank you!! Made my day!

 

[LoisLane]

I have a question. Somewhere in another thread, there was discussion about DG being caught on the 'neighbors' porch and it was suggested that this would be a good vantage point to view the Garland acreage from, perhaps to see if the area he had possibly hidden or disposed of the bodies could be seen. I'm not sure if this is in fact true or if he were caught on his own property. If the bail conditions state that he was not to return to his "parents' Airdrie farm", then how does being caught at the neighbors farm, or in the field constitute him breaking his bail conditions?

I think it was past his curfew.

 

[deugirtni]

I don't think the article that stated it was a 'petty dispute' was noted as being quoted by Allen. See below.
In one of the MSM articles, I recall reading a quote from I believe RO, who had mentioned 'bad blood'.. I will post if I can find later today.

According to a relative of Mr. Liknes, Mr. Garland altered one of the patents and believed he should have been included as one of the inventors. Mr. Liknes paid for the work, but would not give Mr. Garland credit for the invention, said the family member, who described the dispute as “petty.”

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/18/nathan-obriens-grandfather-had-petty-dispute-with-douglas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says/

Allen did disclose the reason for the dispute. He claimed that it was a "petty" disagreement related to Garland's belief that he should be better compensated for patent design work.

 

[deugirtni]

I was thinking that if *anyone* were to be privy to the details of the 'dispute', it would be ALJr since he is both son to AL and husband to the sister of DG, and since he had been directly interviewed and had stated what he stated, as opposed to 'someone said'. Also, surely ALJr would realize that an issue would be dug up, so to state the exact opposite of what happened (didn't end on a bad note vs bad blood) would make him look untrustworthy to the world, wouldn't it?

Assuming we are hearing the complete truth... that is. He may not have been privy to the actual events of the alleged dispute, or may not want to disclose all the details to the entire world.

 

[Slebby]

Assuming we are hearing the complete truth... that is. He may not have been privy to the actual events of the alleged dispute, or may not want to disclose all the details to the entire world.

I agree. It's also possible AL Sr. And KL did not want DG's sister (AL Jr's wife) to feel bad about the falling out, or feel like she was caught in the middle, or had to take sides, or say anything disparaging about her brother, and so instead simply stated that the business association had ended. I think that's what I would have done if I was in that situation with my family.

IMO

 

[stan laurel]

Did it leave 25 feet of dark liquid drag marks?

I'll tell you in an hour.

When I was driving home from my weekly camping trip I noticed areas where deer had been hit by cars the weeks previous, and you know what? those places were still crimson red. So maybe what was washed off had a chemical reaction with "blood" and went black, or it was bile. Does anyone know the colour of bile when it reacts with air?

or maybe it was a mop being carried to the front of the house to be disposed of in a rented disposal container as I'm sure there was much that had gathered in the house that had no value either sentimental or monetary. Ever stop and look at everything that you've acquired and may have just stored deeper and deeper into your abode?

it was also early into the investigation where every nuance is critical, so it may be nothing.

are loners brazen?

 

[stan laurel]

Really important question's here.

CH had said KL/AL were planning on ordering Chinese and having a group cuddle on the couch.

Did they order Chinese for delivery?
or
For pick-up?

What time did they place the order?

What time was it delivered?
or
Time picked up?

If delivered, who paid?
or
Who picked it up?

Was an order made that was neither picked up, or, a door not answered for delivery?

Did someone else answer the door?

As for my comment and directed to Lori; it's a long weekend, having a big sale, maybe some less than picky relatives came down to help and brought a cot to sleep on. DG really fluked out on not knowing how many people were going to be in the house during his plan.

 

[LoisLane]

I'll tell you in an hour.

When I was driving home from my weekly camping trip I noticed areas where deer had been hit by cars the weeks previous, and you know what? those places were still crimson red. So maybe what was washed off had a chemical reaction and went black, or it was bile. Does anyone know the colour of bile?

My dog's bile is yellow.

 

[LoisLane]

Really important question's here.

CH had said KL/AL were planning on ordering Chinese and having a group cuddle on the couch.

Did they order Chinese for delivery?
or
For pick-up?

What time did they place the order?

What time was it delivered?
or
Time picked up?

If delivered, who paid?
or
Who picked it up?

Was an order made that was neither picked up, or, a door not answered for delivery?

Did someone else answer the door?

As for my comment and directed to Lori; it's a long weekend, having a big sale, maybe some less than picky relatives came down to help and brought a cot to sleep on. DG really fluked out on not knowing how many people were going to be in the house during his plan.

I heard it was take-out. JO refers to this at her parent's memorial and it is published. I do recall CH saying the same thing about Chinese food and a hug session and it was in a way that I thought she was participating in that, I would like to find her comment. She was also said to have been at the Estate sale in the afternoon.

I also agree that DG had some sort of intel as to what was taking place that weekend. Whether it was thru his parents, sister, AL, or other family member is the mystery!