Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

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  • #301
I think I mentioned it before on this thread. It's a trip downtown to land titles office and a small fee. Any realtor has an account and can fax in a request.

Thanks Krystine, I'm a dodo, so forgetful of info! I skimmed through some of the first threads the other day and there's still so much info there I forgot. Would like to spend time a re-read stuff one of these days.
 
  • #302
  • #303
Would the stolen identification alone be enough to be considered an indictable offence? I just can't understand that it would relate to murder ( at the time he was arrested) and release him on the bail of $750. Would releasing him to see what he does next be an example of the whole tunnel vision problem?

I know, exactly! I don't think stolen ID counts for that, that's why I'm so curious now, LE might've came across something more, but what?? A grand plan? More victims? Unless it's a miscommunication or mix up, I really want to know.
 
  • #304
Yeah, I'm so curious, I don't really know... The law says 'theft' though, but maybe with a fake ID it is considered theft OR maybe he did rent a vehicle with the fake ID and didn't return it so it technically is theft??

It would be helpful to know what the ID was used for that night and what other purposes it serves. Did DG use the alias on regular basis or for special circumstances? I wonder who makes fake ID these days and how accessible it is and how much it costs for "government issued" ID. The pieces that DG was using back in the day surely had expired and must have been turned over to police when he was charged years ago.
 
  • #305
  • #306
Good catch Lala!

I think there are more than those 3 charges that can be considered as 'indictible offences'. I'm not sure which one or ones of the below might be relevant to having/applying for/using(?)/presenting(?) a bank card in another person's name, but all of them can be considered 'indictable offences'. The obtaining, possessing, using(?) and presenting of it to others(?) are in themselves indictable offences. I wonder if it is possible to charge someone with not having it or obtaining it, but 'intending on using it to commit another indictable offence'??? (Wouldn't they have a difficult time proving what he 'intended' to do with it, as opposed to just charging him with simply having it, which can't really be argued if it was found in his possession? I would love to see a copy of the actual 'charge', as opposed to the reporter's report !

The photo of the green truck was released to the public on July 4th.

(this is referring to the Criminal Code of Canada)

CONSOLIDATED STATUTES OF CANADA
C
Criminal Code
PART IX OFFENCES AGAINST RIGHTS OF PROPERTY
Having in Possession

--
Forgery and Offences Resembling Forgery

Forgery


366. (1) Every one commits forgery who makes a false document, knowing it to be false, with intent

(a) that it should in any way be used or acted on as genuine, to the prejudice of any one whether within Canada or not; or

MY NOTE: Wouldn't it be considered 'forgery' to apply for a bank card in someone else's name?

(b) that a person should be induced, by the belief that it is genuine, to do or to refrain from doing anything, whether within Canada or not.
--
Punishment for forgery

367. Every one who commits forgery

(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or

(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.

R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 367; 1994, c. 44, s. 24; 1997, c. 18, s. 24.
--
Uttering forged document

368. (1) Every one who, knowing that a document is forged,

(a) uses, deals with or acts on it, or

(b) causes or attempts to cause any person to use, deal with or act on it,

as if the document were genuine,

(c) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or

(d) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
--
373. [Repealed, R.S., 1985, c. 27 (1st Supp.), s. 53]

Drawing document without authority, etc.

374. Every one who

(a) with intent to defraud and without lawful authority makes, executes, draws, signs, accepts or endorses a document in the name or on the account of another person by procuration or otherwise, or

(b) makes use of or utters a document knowing that it has been made, executed, signed, accepted or endorsed with intent to defraud and without lawful authority, in the name or on the account of another person, by procuration or otherwise,

is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding fourteen years.

R.S., c. C-34, s. 332.
--
http://legalrorke.tripod.com/CCC/360.htm
--

I can't take credit, I saw it pointed out on another forum lol! Good points you made, geez I'm not really sure. The law is tricky. I think you're right, it probably was the fraud/ID theft charge. From the more stuff I linked below, could've very well be fraud over $5000.

"here are two classes of offences in Canada: indictable offences and summary offences. Indictable offences are more serious offences. The possible penalties are higher than for summary offences, although you may still face imprisonment or heavy fines for many summary offences.

Many offences are called "hybrid" or "dual" offices which means that the Crown can choose to have them dealt with in Court as indictable or summary offences. Impaired driving, possession of narcotics, and most crimes of theft and mischief are hybrid or dual offences.
(BBM)

http://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/public/legal_education/arrested_charged.aspx


Okay, last one (not the best source, but pretty basic and layman style for me):

Offence Code Section Election Dispositions Minimum Maximum (Summary) Maximum (Indictable)
Theft over $5,000 334(a) Indictable Dis / SS / F / F+Pb / Im / Im+Pb / F+Im / CSO N/A N/A 10 years jail
Possession stolen prop. over $5,000 355(a) Indictable Dis / SS / F / F+Pb / Im / Im+Pb / F+Im / CSO N/A N/A 10 years jail
Fraud over $5,000 380(1)(a) Indictable Dis / SS / F / F+Pb / Im / Im+Pb / F+Im / CSO N/A N/A 14 years jail

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadian_Criminal_Sentencing/Appendix/Offence_Charts
 
  • #307
It would be helpful to know what the ID was used for that night and what other purposes it serves. Did DG use the alias on regular basis or for special circumstances? I wonder who makes fake ID these days and how accessible it is and how much it costs for "government issued" ID. The pieces that DG was using back in the day surely had expired and must have been turned over to police when he was charged years ago.

Yeah, that's true LL. I wonder if he hasn't some good, modern fake ID. Back in the day you just had to kinda look like the photo (me and my girlfriends borrowed some older girls we knew drivers licenses to get into a bar haha, could never do that nowadays!)
 
  • #308
I've been reading a lot of the posts above and find the one about the CSA list of Persons of Interests. I find it interesting that DG is not on the list, so I think we can easily surmise that DG is not a scammer attempting to gain what he needs....well at least he hasn't been caught for that. There seems to be just the common thread of that patent design that linked AL and DG together, besides PG. It looks to me as if AL and DG definitely pursued different lines of work. JMO (Thanks for that Captain Obvious!) lol
 
  • #309
  • #310
Yeah, that's true LL. I wonder if he hasn't some good, modern fake ID. Back in the day you just had to kinda look like the photo (me and my girlfriends borrowed some older girls we knew drivers licenses to get into a bar haha, could never do that nowadays!)

We did that too in high school... And they were the plastic new ones that had come out first in BC. CIRCA 1997. I remember we had a fake ID shop in Vancouver and depending on how much you paid they had walls full of ID. I probably spent $35 for a college ID. I can't believe the risky stuff I did as a teenager.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/2...ake-ids-prompts-warning-from-border-officials

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...d+fraud+theft+scheme+video/9812675/story.html

Charges from 2012 Ranuk
http://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/trio-ran-organized-criminal-enterprise-judge-told/
 
  • #311
We did that too in high school... And they were the plastic new ones that had come out first in BC. CIRCA 1997. I remember we had a fake ID shop in Vancouver and depending on how much you paid they had walls full of ID. I probably spent $35 for a college ID. I can't believe the risky stuff I did as a teenager.

http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/2...ake-ids-prompts-warning-from-border-officials

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...d+fraud+theft+scheme+video/9812675/story.html

You're aging yourself LL lol, actually mine were about circa 1994... You and I are close in age and probably doing a lot of the same risky, 'bad' behavior! ;)
 
  • #312
You're aging yourself LL lol, actually mine were about circa 1994... You and I are close in age and probably doing a lot of the same risky, 'bad' behavior! ;)

Hehe! I was able to get my first (and last) tattoo, entry into clubs, liquor and cigarettes. My stories from that time are enough for me to catch about anything going on with my teenage nieces and nephews. It has it's benefits...lol!
 
  • #313
Calgary Herald print version: 'Challenging Year' for Police

Search for bodies of victims has consumed huge resources.
 

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  • #314
Search Dogs in "scouring rural property in Airdrie"
 

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  • #315
You have such a way with words OOTD lol!

(Insert favorite Sam Elliott voice reference here)

(Insert favorite too light hearted, too off topic, or get a room complaint here)
 
  • #316
  • #317
Search Dogs in "scouring rural property in Airdrie"

Thanks otto. We never did find out if Sully found anything did we? I think a couple WSer's mentioned he did sit a couple times and a few markers were placed but I'd have to go back to the threads to check for sure. Those dogs sure are amazing.
 
  • #318
Thanks otto. We never did find out if Sully found anything did we? I think a couple WSer's mentioned he did sit a couple times and a few markers were placed but I'd have to go back to the threads to check for sure. Those dogs sure are amazing.

What stands out for me, between the two Calgary Herald articles, is that police are still searching rural areas for the bodies of the victims.
 
  • #319
"A convicted criminal from the United States was handed an 18-month prison sentence in a Calgary court after pleading guilty to immigration fraud charges for entering the country using a fraudulently obtained document."

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...r+half+prison+immigration/10260153/story.html

Fraudulent documents and identification are quite sophisticated.

Wow, and only 18 months for it? I don't think this will do a thing to someone living a criminal lifestyle, I think they would just get out after and continue disobeying the law, who would learn from that? The laws need to get tougher IMO. Just like the Surrey Six Murder:

"Last year, former Red Scorpions gang leader Michael Le pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit murder and was sentenced to 12 years in prison. His sentence was subsequently reduced to three years and one month after credit for time served. He then went on to*testify against his former gang mates.

Seems like a slap in the face to victims and their families if you ask me.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...r-and-matthew-johnston-found-guilty-1.2785184
 
  • #320
What stands out for me, between the two Calgary Herald articles, is that police are still searching rural areas for the bodies of the victims.

Oh I didn't clue into that part, thanks for pointing that out!

That actually makes me feel so much better knowing they are actively looking. I'm wondering if the dog picked up sporadic, remnant scents and LE know they're close (close could be many, many miles of a vicinity) and know they have to be around there somewhere as it seems that's a focus search area.
 
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