Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

[Tinkerbel1]

Hey, everyone. I was giving this over active brain a bit of a walkabout (a break from the site) and this came to me while I was trying to think about less intense topics.
Do farmers and agri people have access to stun guns or tazers? Are they as easy or difficult to buy on the black market as firearms, do you think?

To me it seems a little bit more practical that the L's were overcome with a tazer than with a tire iron.

Oh wow! Now there's a theory! And very plausible...except, how does one pick up AL and move him? Still a big guy. Or can they still walk if tasered or stunned? I have no idea but that would definitely be a good way to make the victims 'cooperative' so to speak.

 

[stan laurel]

Excellent questions.. even if the Chinese food isn't during the 'timeframe'? !
But.. if JO were there for the Chinese food, and then the afterward group hugs on the sofa, and she left at 10pm, then either way, delivery or takeout, what would it matter, because tht wouldn't have been the last thing to have arrived at the house.. since JO was still there? Or am I not following your train of thought?

yeah, I was just waking up and remembered a line on Chinese take out which would throw a wrench into the timing if it was ordered at ten, but it wasn't,, but it does keep jo at the home as did the movie and group hug which might explain the rushed earlier part of the murder. but how did dg know that once JO left there were others besides NO at the L's that night? If it was important for him that JO leave then obviously he had planned on off'ing only two people.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

of course this does somewhat prove he was planning for two and no more collateral additions e.g., JO and NO.

I think he had more information than we think. He might very well have been there that day himself...had a chat, got some information, heard the plans about the movie, Chinese, etc....anything is possible. You know, when someone wants something bad enough, they'll always find a way to get it...in this case, information. And, if DG didn't go there and get the info himself (or possibly call) to find out what time the estate sale was over that Sunday, then perhaps he had someone else ask for him. It wouldn't be hard to keep a lookout as to cars in the driveway and/or in front of the house. Perhaps he could see into the front livingroom window...kind of getting darkish by 10:00...maybe lights on inside...easy to see inside, not so easy for people to see out when lights are on. Just a thought.

 

[Slebby]

X

Hey, everyone. I was giving this over active brain a bit of a walkabout (a break from the site) and this came to me while I was trying to think about less intense topics.
Do farmers and agri people have access to stun guns or tazers? Are they as easy or difficult to buy on the black market as firearms, do you think?

To me it seems a little bit more practical that the L's were overcome with a tazer than with a tire iron.

I personally find the idea of using a stun gun kind of unlikely compared to the simplicity of using a tire iron. But for the sake of discussion, if a stun gun was used, I wouldn't think there would be any need to leave behind a bloody scene. Victims subdued by a stun gun would not be fighting back. Thoughts?

JMO

 

[stan laurel]

Hey, everyone. I was giving this over active brain a bit of a walkabout (a break from the site) and this came to me while I was trying to think about less intense topics.
Do farmers and agri people have access to stun guns or tazers? Are they as easy or difficult to buy on the black market as firearms, do you think?

To me it seems a little bit more practical that the L's were overcome with a tazer than with a tire iron.

like a cattle prod or the initiator part of an electrified fence to keep cattle in/out?

 

[stan laurel]

X
I personally find the idea of using a stun gun kind of unlikely compared to the simplicity of using a tire iron. But for the sake of discussion, if a stun gun was used, I wouldn't think there would be any need to leave behind a bloody scene. Victims subdued by a stun gun would not be fighting back. Thoughts?

JMO

if used overwhelmingly it might cause a heart attack and extreme vomiting and causing one to fall hit head, convulse and bleed harder due to an accelerated heart rate.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

yeah, I was just waking up and remembered a line on Chinese take out which would throw a wrench into the timing if it was ordered at ten, but it wasn't,, but it does keep jo at the home as did the movie and group hug which might explain the rushed earlier part of the murder. but how did dg know that once JO left there were others besides NO at the L's that night? If it was important for him that JO leave then obviously he had planned on off'ing only two people.

I think it makes good sense that AL picked it up on his way home from Winter Pet, or it was delivered fairly early. NO is little, he was probably hungry...maybe they planned to have it there for 7 pm sharp. Still lots of time to eat, watch a movie and for JO to leave by 10:00. Could explain Nathan falling asleep, if his tummy were full and he had settled down from that busy weekend.

 

[Krystine]

Oh wow! Now there's a theory! And very plausible...except, how does one pick up AL and move him? Still a big guy. Or can they still walk if tasered or stunned? I have no idea but that would definitely be a good way to make the victims 'cooperative' so to speak.

Perhaps sillybilly would know

 

[Tinkerbel1]

X
I personally find the idea of using a stun gun kind of unlikely compared to the simplicity of using a tire iron. But for the sake of discussion, if a stun gun was used, I wouldn't think there would be any need to leave behind a bloody scene. Victims subdued by a stun gun would not be fighting back. Thoughts?

JMO

Well, he could only tase 1 at a time. Perhaps he pointed the gun at AL and KL jumped him (which is a normal reaction I think...fight or flight...and I don't think she was a shrinking violet), so he hit her with the butt of the gun, causing her head to bleed...then he tased her, she fell to the floor or against the wall and slid down...whichever way required to leave the blood at the scene and I think NO was probably sleeping and scared when he woke up, possibly threatened to keep quiet and go along with them all. Another random thought.

 

[stan laurel]

X
I personally find the idea of using a stun gun kind of unlikely compared to the simplicity of using a tire iron. But for the sake of discussion, if a stun gun was used, I wouldn't think there would be any need to leave behind a bloody scene. Victims subdued by a stun gun would not be fighting back. Thoughts?

JMO

I took out one of my shorty gooseneck crowbars and realized that one needs a lot of room to swing it with accuracy,, I assume the L home had 8 foot ceilings maybe nine foot. it's tricky as heck but could be done much quicker with a 5 lb sledgehammer or heavier ball peen hammer with the ball sharpened to a point.

prefer sleuthing to writing stuff like the latter.

 

[Krystine]

if used overwhelmingly it might cause a heart attack and extreme vomiting and causing one to fall hit head, convulse and bleed harder due to an accelerated heart rate.

That's exactly what I was thinking. The logistics of removing the victims are the same, but as a means for overcoming two adults with little noise,...I think I'm leaning towards this.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

I took out one of my shorty gooseneck crowbars and realized that one needs a lot of room to swing it with accuracy,, I assume the L home had 8 foot ceilings maybe nine foot. it's tricky as heck but could be done much quicker with a 5 lb sledgehammer or heavier ball peen hammer with the ball sharpened to a point.

prefer sleuthing to writing stuff like the latter.

Or just a plain hammer would do it. Ugh...so horrible to think of what these people may have gone through. No matter what, 2 of them had to have seen the first one go. Terrible stuff. A fellow in Wandering River killed his wife by hitting her times in the head with a normal hammer.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/09/...ife-then-puts-her-body-through-a-wood-mulcher

A baseball bat would use a different swing (depending on if it were used like a bat is supposed to be used) and wouldn't need the height clearance that a hammer or hammer-type tool would require. (Sorry)

 

[stan laurel]

Or just a plain hammer would do it. Ugh...so horrible to think of what these people may have gone through. No matter what, 2 of them had to have seen the first one go. Terrible stuff. A fellow in Wandering River killed his wife by hitting her times in the head with a normal hammer.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2014/09/...ife-then-puts-her-body-through-a-wood-mulcher

A baseball bat would use a different swing (depending on if it were used like a bat is supposed to be used) and wouldn't need the height clearance that a hammer or hammer-type tool would require. (Sorry)

lamps in the way, walls, and you need to know how they might be laying. you would have to practice swinging objects in closed spaces, it's tricky as arms are long and things are in the way.

 

[Sillybilly]

Perhaps sillybilly would know

No, billy really doesn't know, LOL. I only know they are easy to obtain as someone who was concerned about my personal safety offered to get me one once. All I know is it would have come from the US.

Thinking back to the Dziekanski tasering at the Vancouver airport ... iirc, he went down pretty quickly and I don't remember him walking prior to going down. As for making the victims co-operative, I would think the victim would have to recognize the weapon as a taser in order for it to have a mental impact which would then result in co-operation (because they couldn't possibly be co-operative after they were hit with it).

 

[Sillybilly]

I've always just kind of thought that perhaps AL took Nathan out for an ice cream or something and KL was left at home alone. Perp came in and dealt with KL, then when AL and NO returned, NO would have been the "weapon" that kept AL under control.

 

[otto]

It's odd that CH didn't make mention of when she left the Liknes home that Sunday, especially if she was there for Chinese food and a movie. She is quite forthcoming with any information she has about KL and herself, I would've thought she would have willingly offered up this tidbit.

I think that Airdrie is growing but it's not so big that news couldn't have gotten around town about the estate sale.

Wasn't the information posted on kijiji? Don't they have that in Airdrie?

Isn't the accused related to the victims via his sister? Isn't it likely that he heard about the moving out sale via family?

 

[stan laurel]

travis vader found,,,

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...uilty-will-be-released-from-custody-1.2793057

 

[Slebby]

if used overwhelmingly it might cause a heart attack and extreme vomiting and causing one to fall hit head, convulse and bleed harder due to an accelerated heart rate.

IMO, that's still a far cry from a violent struggle as was described by LE, plus it wouldn't be that difficult to clean up.

Points for imagination stan! :crazy:

 

[LoisLane]

We had heard the possibility of a 3rd crime scene. I came across this video last night and at 20 seconds into it I notice a police van backed into the driveway. Maybe this home was investigated as well. I think it could be related. Has anyone else looked into this?

In general the video is interesting if you listen to it. As well notice the police van parked in the driveway. I wonder who lived there or was it also vacant?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YiHg43jyk54

20 seconds in, van in driveway.
30 seconds in, close up of driveway and blood-like matter

 

[Slebby]

I took out one of my shorty gooseneck crowbars and realized that one needs a lot of room to swing it with accuracy,, I assume the L home had 8 foot ceilings maybe nine foot. it's tricky as heck but could be done much quicker with a 5 lb sledgehammer or heavier ball peen hammer with the ball sharpened to a point.

prefer sleuthing to writing stuff like the latter.

Maybe if it was done to them when they were sleeping? However in that case, I'd lean more towards knife than crowbar. Or axe.

You're right. It doesn't feel very good to write these thoughts.

IMO