Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #17

[Krystine]

So what I don't get is - if the sidewalk was 'cleaned' after, how did that material stay stuck and not get washed away? The only (gross) conclusion I can come up with, is after the murderer cleaned up, he walked past and the material was stuck to his shoe? Sorry guys, I hate this gore, it's quite upsetting.

Also why wasn't such a noticeable piece of bloody material marked with a marker? Anyone have thoughts on this?

We need Winnancy for this one.
I think and imagine( from reading a lot of Pat Cornwell and Kathy Reichs), that blood from a crime scene tends to harden and clot and becomes a sticky difficult mess to clean. It does seem to have pooled in that crevice in the concrete and maybe in haste it was a slap-dash job of hosing it down.

 

[Krystine]

What about a cross-bow then? That's quiet.

Cumbersome and not good at close range.

 

[stan laurel]

Good eye, it does look like that.

So we know DG can supposedly (according to rumor) unarm alarm systems, although the alarm doesn't look tampered with, and doubtful he could unarm with code. So why would the murderer be all over the alarm system after/during the crime? Or was it a victim trying to open the garage in a panic/distress?

Maybe someone was injured inside and thought to be dead, but they managed to drag themselves outside and was trying to get into the garage for a weapon to fight back but was caught outside by the assailant where the spatter happened?

It also looks like a man sized hand print on the garage door.

to activate the alarm?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

to activate the alarm?

Can you activate it with the number pad though? I'm not sure, haven't seen one in years.

 

[stan laurel]

Can you activate it with the number pad though? I'm not sure, haven't seen one in years.

not sure, but onestar or the old "help I've fallen and can't get up" alert device has been around for sometime before the now common cellphone.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, you can activate a burglar alarm through the keypad. Absolutely.

Can you activate it with the number pad though? I'm not sure, haven't seen one in years.

 

[deugirtni]

Does anyone happen to know if there is access to the garage through the home, or is the overhead door and the side door the only entrance/exit to/from the garage?

EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry.. I was 'assuming' that that side door was the man door of the garage. Is it stated anywhere that this door is access to the home, or to the garage?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Well well, quite the find..
Did you happen to notice at approx 0:45 into the video (BBM):

Your quote "Police also revealed they want to speak with a driver and passenger seen in an older model Ford F150 around the time of the disappearance." (BBM) makes me think someone was alive when taken from Parkhill and taken to the 3rd crime scene or there were 2 assailants or 2 co-conspirators leaving together.

I feel like one of the victim's was alive but injured. I read somewhere in MSM that the event was described as a 'violent disappearance', I found it odd they just didn't call it a murder, because that's what we've been told it was. Will try to find the article to link.

I wonder if this was a slip up or lack of information at the beginning and an assumption there were 2?

"...followed by the violent disappearance of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes and their grandson, Nathan O'Brien..."

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...dly+2014+challenging+year/10261467/story.html

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes, you can activate a burglar alarm through the keypad. Absolutely.

argh, this breaks my heart, I hope this didn't happen, that someone was gravely injured and *so close* to calling for help

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Does anyone happen to know if there is access to the garage through the home, or is the overhead door and the side door the only entrance/exit to/from the garage?

EDIT: Oh, I'm sorry.. I was 'assuming' that that side door was the man door of the garage. Is it stated anywhere that this door is access to the home, or to the garage?

Not sure, I had always assumed there's almost always a door from inside house to garage. I would assume this also because of Alberta winters, you'd want home to garage access for the winter months and not having to enter garage from outside(?)

I'm assuming because i haven't had a garage in years lol!

 

[deugirtni]

Ok wait.. this is how it works with my alarm.. I can activate it.. by punching in a wrong code, and a 'siren' will sound, loud enough for the neighbours to hear.. and at same time, the alarm will also go to the monitoring company (if they are in fact paying for monitoring.... some people only have the alarm itself, unmonitored, so it is only the 'noise'), and then the monitoring company would try calling your contact number as previously given, and if no response, they would dispatch police.

argh, this breaks my heart, I hope this didn't happen, that someone was gravely injured and *so close* to calling for help

 

[deugirtni]

The house is also rather old, isn't it?? I don't think all houses came with access between garage/house at that time. Also, it seems to me that if there was a door inside the garage leading to the interior of the house, it would have been located right where that photograph is taken of LE looking at things on the shelf of the garage wall? Unless it is up closer toward the front of the house, but also, if the house were a split level, the garage may end up being between two levels of the house.

Does anyone know if that side exterior door belongs to the house, or to the garage?

Not sure, I had always assumed there's almost always a door from inside house to garage. I would assume this also because of Alberta winters, you'd want home to garage access for the winter months and not having to enter garage from outside(?)

I'm assuming because i haven't had a garage in years lol!

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, please try to find that link. To me, it must have looked to LE at the time, as if it was possible that the truck cab had 2 people inside. But yet later, LE is confident there was only one suspect. Perhaps video footage from somewhere else was obtained in the meantime which showed only one person for sure. But... if it wasn't the exact same trip/same time (since apparently there were 'several times'), then there could have been a passenger in the first set of footage, and not in another, which could simply mean that one of the people in the cab got OUT of the cab before the other footage was recorded? (Or, unless LE had determined later that the possible 'passenger' in the one footage was one of the victims, hence the huge 'searching for missing people as opposed to bodies' at the acreage?.. and perhaps also why LE was hoping that at least there was ONE victim still alive and missing.. but that doesn't make sense because they issued the AA before knowing about the truck.)

Your quote "Police also revealed they want to speak with a driver and passenger seen in an older model Ford F150 around the time of the disappearance." (BBM) makes me think someone was alive when taken from Parkhill and taken to the 3rd crime scene or there were 2 assailants or 2 co-conspirators leaving together.

I feel like one of the victim's was alive but injured. I read somewhere in MSM that the event was described as a 'violent disappearance', I found it odd they just didn't call it a murder, because that's what we've been told it was. Will try to find the article to link.

I wonder if this was a slip up or lack of information at the beginning and an assumption there were 2?

"...followed by the violent disappearance of Alvin and Kathryn Liknes and their grandson, Nathan O'Brien..."

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/c...dly+2014+challenging+year/10261467/story.html

 

[stan laurel]

Yes, please try to find that link. To me, it must have looked to LE at the time, as if it was possible that the truck cab had 2 people inside. But yet later, LE is confident there was only one suspect. Perhaps video footage from somewhere else was obtained in the meantime which showed only one person for sure. But... if it wasn't the exact same trip/same time (since apparently there were 'several times'), then there could have been a passenger in the first set of footage, and not in another, which could simply mean that one of the people in the cab got OUT of the cab before the other footage was recorded? (Or, unless LE had determined later that the possible 'passenger' in the one footage was one of the victims, hence the huge 'searching for missing people as opposed to bodies' at the acreage?.. and perhaps also why LE was hoping that at least there was ONE victim still alive and missing.. but that doesn't make sense because they issued the AA before knowing about the truck.)

so it isn't cut and dry which keeps something going in the backs of our minds. If there is another who departed the vehicle, when and where did they go?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Sorry off topic, I just read something on FB that's interesting:

Awhile back I had posted on here that there was a phone number and address listing and possible business connections for AL (not Alvin, but still unsure if ALJR or ALSR, I think it's ALJR) in Helena, Montana which I thought odd. Is there some great tax reason to have an address and/or possible business in Montana other than it's close to Alberta?

I was unsure it was the same AL or same family in general, but thought it was. I was snooping the FB group 'Army Of Prayers For The Liknes - O'Brien Family' (thanks LL for letting me know of the group) and there's a post from a SCH who wrote a message and said they are friends of Allen's from Montana and down the thread, they've known him since 1993.

So it seems it is the same ALiknes who has some connections to Montana. Nothing major, but wanted to share in case anyone else is sleuthing/following any and all business leads (if there is any). I can't confirm business in Montana, but reverse searched the address and phone number and businesses come up although not sure they might be ALSR/JRs.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

so it isn't cut and dry which keeps something going in the backs of our minds. If there is another who departed the vehicle, when and where did they go?

Yes, and if there was a second person were they a victim or assailant?

 

[deugirtni]

I noticed that also, and so it made me wonder if someone was wearing gloves, touching the alarm, bleeding from hand inside glove?
Also, if going to the trouble to clean up the sidewalk, why not give a little hose to the wall too?

..... although the alarm doesn't look tampered with....

 

[deugirtni]

Did anyone notice in one of the news conferences on video from early in the case, that Sgt Andrus stated that the markings were 'on the wall', and not that the markings were on the ground? It was in a link that I believe LoisLane posted earlier today, it was a Q&A session with Andrus and reporters. I found it difficult to hear the reporters' questions, but could Andrus very well. (But mind you, I had to keep the volume down, so that my family doesn't think I'm obsessed)

 

[deugirtni]

Or willing participant?

Yes, and if there was a second person were they a victim or assailant?

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Or willing participant?

Yes, or that too. I haven't ruled anything out, my minds goes every way on this.

Could be a lone person as LE says or they're watching someone else very quietly, unknown to the media and public, just waiting for a slip up.