Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #18

[Lalalacasbah]

I like your explanation and feel the same. I have reached a point where I am going through some sort of denial and guilt process right now. After reading all these posts this evening I am feeling even more lost. I certainly have sleuthed in every direction and I just end up confused. I just wish the 3 people are recovered and it will give some peace and closure. I will keep going as this is not even close to resolved, in my mind anyways.

I think that's a great word and I think that's what I have - denial of some sort. Or disbelief. Disbelief being that someone actually went through with actually murdering poor little Nathan that happened to be there. I guess if I feel there was a partner or someone else involved maybe that leaves a crack of hope somehow.

You are an awesome sleuther LL! You better keep going! I will too, but I just might simmer down and not go full blast so much.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

My hero! I was worried that you had locked yourself in a dark room, listening to Air Supply on vinyl and drinking in despair - All because I agreed to go out with cherchri...

How could I ever be in despair? It's 2014, where "relationship" has also been redefined. It's a new era in experiencing the power of love, simply by making love out of nothing at all.

If you and Cherchri are taking the chance at becoming lost in love, then how could I be anything but happy that there are two less lonely people in the world?

Come what may, you don't consciously choose the one that you love, it just happens. Every woman in the world is searching for that Prince or Princess Charming to take one more chance with... in hopes of sharing with them, that unchained melody we call life.

It's getting late, so if I want to give it all at work tomorrow, I need to get some sleep.

Sweet Dreams!

 

[news.talk]

How could I ever be in despair? It's 2014, where "relationship" has also been redefined. It's a new era in experiencing the power of love, simply by making love out of nothing at all.

If you and Cherchri are taking the chance at becoming lost in love, then how could I be anything but happy that there are two less lonely people in the world?

Come what may, you don't consciously choose the one that you love, it just happens. Every woman in the world is searching for that Prince or Princess Charming to take one more chance with... in hopes of sharing with them, that unchained melody we call life.

It's getting late, so if I want to give it all at work tomorrow, I need to get some sleep.

Sweet Dreams!

I am laughing so hard right now! [emoji23]

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Tinkerbel, please edit your post to remove SL's full name. I took the liberty of changing it to intials in the quote ^^. IF it's too late to edit, please ask a mod to do it for you.

Thank you for that Silly Billy! I hadn't even noticed I had done that! I'm usually pretty careful about it but apparently not careful enough.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

There used to be a real estate firm in cowtown that had signs around town of JUNG REALTY which kinda looked like Jung Reality.

Neither here nor there.

Lol...thats funny...they should've used that play on words for marketing[emoji4]

 

[Slebby]

Honestly I don't think I know any more than "the rest of us". I do think it is a fairly straightforward crime in terms of LE being in a position to put forth evidence of what took place. The fact that no bodies have been found is a wrinkle of note and means that the evidence presented at trial will need to be substantive to a T. I have no doubt LE collected enough evidence and the prosecution is confident. What I can't come to grips with is the motive - I just can't reconcile that with what we know. So if you are wondering if I believe there is still something to solve, I do and it is around the motive. LE may well know what the motive was but I sure as heck don't and I can't believe it was the patent issue alone.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about motive. I think you are right.

Sometimes I wonder, did DG harbour a certain resentment towards AL because of the patent issue. Not enough to want to kill. But maybe enough to feel resentful about the charmed life AL seemed to be leading. I wonder if it's possible DG heard through the family grapevine that the Ls were selling everything and retiring to sunny Mexico. Is it possible the original motive was theft and nothing more? Maybe DG planned to simply steal the proceeds of the 3 day estate sale, a relatively easy theft, so to speak. Maybe he planned to sneak in after the Ls went to sleep, to steal the cash. He may have thought he'd put a monkey wrench in their retirement plan, which would appease his resentment over the patent issue. Plus DG could come away with a nice chunk of cash.

Then maybe when he entered to L home, instead of being able to sneak around and find the cash stash, he instead woke one or both of the Ls, who recognized him, thus setting off a violent incident, the result of which was the death of the 3 victims.

It's not a theory I'm married to, but I have often wondered if this was a small plan on DG's part that escalated into something much worse.

Thoughts?

 

[news.talk]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts about motive. I think you are right.

Sometimes I wonder, did DG harbour a certain resentment towards AL because of the patent issue. Not enough to want to kill. But maybe enough to feel resentful about the charmed life AL seemed to be leading. I wonder if it's possible DG heard through the family grapevine that the Ls were selling everything and retiring to sunny Mexico. Is it possible the original motive was theft and nothing more? Maybe DG planned to simply steal the proceeds of the 3 day estate sale, a relatively easy theft, so to speak. Maybe he planned to sneak in after the Ls went to sleep, to steal the cash. He may have thought he'd put a monkey wrench in their retirement plan, which would appease his resentment over the patent issue. Plus DG could come away with a nice chunk of cash.

Then maybe when he entered to L home, instead of being able to sneak around and find the cash stash, he instead woke one or both of the Ls, who recognized him, thus setting off a violent incident, the result of which was the death of the 3 victims.

It's not a theory I'm married to, but I have often wondered if this was a small plan on DG's part that escalated into something much worse.

Thoughts?

I have always theorized that the money was part of the motive - keeping it simple. I would add that since there is enough evidence to charge DG for pre-meditation, that he also used this opportunity to enact the revenge he has let fester.

I go back and forth between two scenarios:

1. His original intent was to make it look like they simply left town, but somewhat wrong.

2. Used the estate sale as his opportunity to commit the murder, making it look like it was a burglary gone wrong.

Time will tell.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I have always theorized that the money was part of the motive - keeping it simple. I would add that since there is enough evidence to charge DG for pre-meditation, that he also used this opportunity to enact the revenge he has let fester.

I go back and forth between two scenarios:

1. His original intent was to make it look like they simply left town, but somewhat wrong.

2. Used the estate sale as his opportunity to commit the murder, making it look like it was a burglary gone wrong.

Time will tell.

Reading your post just made me think of a couple things just now, mostly hypothetical.

Let's say the estate sale set his idea in motion to look like a botched robbery. Maybe this was his original plan and he was planning to leave the bodies behind as most robbers would. Maybe taking the victims was a last minute decision because of NO being there, thinking most robbers probably would not kill a defenseless child. If he decided hastily to take them with him, mistakes were maybe made and maybe hiding/disposing them wasn't such a big pre-plan but in haste. This could mean he took one or two alive or deceased depending on where he planned to do the actual murder.

I thought myself about your idea of them looking like they left to Mexico, but now that I think about it that plan wouldn't have worked for him either since the garage photos clearly show they still had their stuff not packed. Would people abandon their house and belongings to leave for the new owners to clean up? Usually not, so another wrench in possible plans.

ETA - now I think my first paragraph isn't right either.... He must've pre-planned disposal. Especially if he possibly took AL's truck at some point maybe, this seems pre-planned and not spontaneous to me. JMO.

 

[stan laurel]

You have a good point Billy, I often wonder if I'm 'over sleuthing' everything and trying to find links and coincidences (I guess like I do in life) in everything around and things found in this case. If one thinks about it, you can find a connection if you look hard enough.

I sometimes wonder if I'm crossing a line where I'm letting my ideas (or imagination?) get the best of me or if everything I'm seeing is legit, but I think I'm going to start being careful about voicing my suspicions out loud about friends and family on here which I do from time to time. I can't tell if there's enough reasoning for such 'suspicions', or if I have a bad case of over-analyzing!

Thanks for the reminder to keep things in check

Douglas Adams of The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy fame wrote a couple of very funny Private Eye books, one was The Dark Tea Time of The Soul and the other I forget. Anyhoo, Dirk Gently is a holistic investigator who sleuths by believing everything is connected, even things like if he forgot to order a topping on a pizza.

I wonder if anyone on WS has taken that moniker?

 

[LoisLane]

Douglas Adams of The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy fame wrote a couple of very funny Private Eye books, one was The Dark Tea Time of The Soul and the other I forget. Anyhoo, Dirk Gently is a holistic investigator who sleuths by believing everything is connected, even if he forgot to order a topping on a pizza.

I wonder if anyone on WS has taken that moniker?

The wonder of the internet and social networking has shown me various ways I could be connected to various members of the Liknes / Obrien family. Just scanning FB friends shows me that my close friend has a cousin who is close to RO and has been by the family through this. I have a friend who is friends with GH and that is how I learned of this search. My friend has a daughter who is friends with another L. Families daughter. I have a friend who has two friends that are friends with KL, etc. Unfortunately, none of it has proven helpful but it has certainly kept me connected and determined.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Douglas Adams of The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy fame wrote a couple of very funny Private Eye books, one was The Dark Tea Time of The Soul and the other I forget. Anyhoo, Dirk Gently is a holistic investigator who sleuths by believing everything is connected, even things like if he forgot to order a topping on a pizza.

I wonder if anyone on WS has taken that moniker?

It's kinda true, so many things are connected in this world, especially through associations of people, it's freaky.

The more you seek, the more you shall find. I think Yoda said that….or maybe…not, can't remember lol

 

[Lalalacasbah]

The wonder of the internet and social networking has shown me various ways I could be connected to various members of the Liknes / Obrien family. Just scanning FB friends shows me that my close friend has a cousin who is close to RO and has been by the family through this. I have a friend who is friends with GH and that is how I learned of this search. My friend has a daughter who is friends with another L. Families daughter. I have a friend who has two friends that are friends with KL, etc. Unfortunately, none of it has proven helpful but it has certainly kept me connected and determined.

Wow, it is a small world after all. That's pretty connected. Calgary is such a big city too, the world is big but not that big hey?!

 

[stan laurel]

Well I need to sign off of WS for awhile as in my sleuthing I've forgotten that lives have been irreversibly destroyed due this event. Back in a week or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRZ...jNhme7nETlA9nf6-rj&lf=list_related&playnext=1

 

[Tinkerbel1]

Douglas Adams of The Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy fame wrote a couple of very funny Private Eye books, one was The Dark Tea Time of The Soul and the other I forget. Anyhoo, Dirk Gently is a holistic investigator who sleuths by believing everything is connected, even things like if he forgot to order a topping on a pizza.

I wonder if anyone on WS has taken that moniker?

What moniker? Dirk? Not I.

However, as far as that theory goes, yes...I agree with Dirk Gently totally. Everything is connected...and whether we discover this connection through coincidence, synchronicity (things that aren't really tangible) as well as all things that are material and tangible. It's all the same energy. All questions and all answers are contained within this energy, just like a wave of the ocean...it's a piece of the totality...whether you put a few drops of that wave in a glass, or it evaporates and later rains, its all the same thing...it's still the ocean, or part of it, no matter it's form...all part of Source Energy...the Higher Power...God...Fruit & Nuts...whatever you want to call it...has all the information....everything is created from It so absolutely, everything is undeniably connected. This theory is getting to be more and more studied and understood through the field of Quantum Physics, they're proving it. What are we doing here if not "connecting" the dots...looking for the "connections"?

Dirk forgetting a pizza topping could very well be his intuition pointing him in a direction, or perhaps that particular pizza topping is significant to him in some way...like he forgot to order pepperoni on his pizza...his mind is focused on the pepperoni...maybe the butcher shop where the pepperoni comes from is significant to the case...who knows? Abstract thinking, creative thinking not just "links" and "facts" put in writing somewhere, are all part of the whole process. I believe that the majority of extremely successful investigators use these tools to guide them through their investigations, knowingly or not. Gut feelings, hunches, something miniscule that was picked up subconsciously at the crime scene or through a conversation, or body language that sticks out in their minds like sore thumbs, are all Source Energy speaking to them and I believe, are what lead them to unravel the mysteries, besides the obvious things like forensic evidence, crime scenes, etc. Sherlock Holmes was extremely intuitive and followed up on those leads...famous fictional detective. Strange techniques, but successful nevertheless.

First comes the thought (from Source Energy), then comes the thing (through that thought, also from Source Energy), then comes the "link" (through that thing, brought about by the thought, and also from Source Energy). Everything is...just one great big link. Life the way we live it is just all about distraction (which btw, is the name of my book (in progress)...lol. Whether we believe it or not is really irrelevant and it doesn't make it less viable...after all, the Law of Gravity works whether we believe it or not, right? I'm pretty sure the Law of Gravity came before any publication of it...it was already there, waiting to be discovered. Just like the answer to this mystery is. It's here, just waiting to be discovered.

This is totally and completely, MOO and belief.

(I must read that book, it sounds like it was a great read!)

Thanks Stan!

 

[Tinkerbel1]

It's kinda true, so many things are connected in this world, especially through associations of people, it's freaky.

The more you seek, the more you shall find. I think Yoda said that….or maybe…not, can't remember lol

I believe the theory of there being only "6 degrees of separation" is true. Sure sounds like it from LL's connections!

 

[LoisLane]

What moniker? Dirk? Not I.

However, as far as that theory goes, yes...I agree with Dirk Gently totally. Everything is connected...and whether we discover this connection through coincidence, synchronicity (things that aren't really tangible) as well as all things that are material and tangible. It's all the same energy. All questions and all answers are contained within this energy, just like a wave of the ocean...it's a piece of the totality...whether you put a few drops of that wave in a glass, or it evaporates and later rains, its all the same thing...it's still the ocean, or part of it, no matter it's form...all part of Source Energy...the Higher Power...God...Fruit & Nuts...whatever you want to call it...has all the information....everything is created from It so absolutely, everything is undeniably connected. This theory is getting to be more and more studied and understood through the field of Quantum Physics, they're proving it. What are we doing here if not "connecting" the dots...looking for the "connections"?

Dirk forgetting a pizza topping could very well be his intuition pointing him in a direction, or perhaps that particular pizza topping is significant to him in some way...like he forgot to order pepperoni on his pizza...his mind is focused on the pepperoni...maybe the butcher shop where the pepperoni comes from is significant to the case...who knows? Abstract thinking, creative thinking not just "links" and "facts" put in writing somewhere, are all part of the whole process. I believe that the majority of extremely successful investigators use these tools to guide them through their investigations, knowingly or not. Gut feelings, hunches, something miniscule that was picked up subconsciously at the crime scene or through a conversation, or body language that sticks out in their minds like sore thumbs, are all Source Energy speaking to them and I believe, are what lead them to unravel the mysteries, besides the obvious things like forensic evidence, crime scenes, etc. Sherlock Holmes was extremely intuitive and followed up on those leads...famous detective. Strange techniques, but successful nevertheless.

First comes the thought (from Source Energy), then comes the thing (through that thought, also from Source Energy), then comes the "link" (through that thing, brought about by the thought, and also from Source Energy). Everything is...just one great big link. Life the way we live it is just all about distraction (which btw, is the name of my book (in progress)...lol. Whether we believe it or not is really irrelevant and it doesn't make it less viable...after all, the Law of Gravity works whether we believe it or not, right? I'm pretty sure the Law of Gravity came before any publication of it...it was already there, waiting to be discovered. Just like the answer to this mystery is. It's here, just waiting to be discovered.

This is totally and completely, MOO and belief.

(I must read that book, it sounds like it was a great read!)

Thanks Stan!

Wow! Thank you for this, I definetly needed this refreshment and grounding. I also believe that we are attracted here for a purpose and we have all grown and supported one another and this effort will all come to fruition and make perfect sense eventually.

 

[Sillybilly]

Sherlock Holmes was extremely intuitive and followed up on those leads...famous detective. Strange techniques, but successful nevertheless.

<rsbm>

Skip that ... Sherlock Holmes was a fictional character created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

 

[Tinkerbel1]

<rsbm>

Skip that ... Sherlock Holmes was a fictional character created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Fictional or not, he demonstrated Reality. In which case, his creator was brilliant!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

What moniker? Dirk? Not I.

However, as far as that theory goes, yes...I agree with Dirk Gently totally. Everything is connected...and whether we discover this connection through coincidence, synchronicity (things that aren't really tangible) as well as all things that are material and tangible. It's all the same energy. All questions and all answers are contained within this energy, just like a wave of the ocean...it's a piece of the totality...whether you put a few drops of that wave in a glass, or it evaporates and later rains, its all the same thing...it's still the ocean, or part of it, no matter it's form...all part of Source Energy...the Higher Power...God...Fruit & Nuts...whatever you want to call it...has all the information....everything is created from It so absolutely, everything is undeniably connected. This theory is getting to be more and more studied and understood through the field of Quantum Physics, they're proving it. What are we doing here if not "connecting" the dots...looking for the "connections"?

Dirk forgetting a pizza topping could very well be his intuition pointing him in a direction, or perhaps that particular pizza topping is significant to him in some way...like he forgot to order pepperoni on his pizza...his mind is focused on the pepperoni...maybe the butcher shop where the pepperoni comes from is significant to the case...who knows? Abstract thinking, creative thinking not just "links" and "facts" put in writing somewhere, are all part of the whole process. I believe that the majority of extremely successful investigators use these tools to guide them through their investigations, knowingly or not. Gut feelings, hunches, something miniscule that was picked up subconsciously at the crime scene or through a conversation, or body language that sticks out in their minds like sore thumbs, are all Source Energy speaking to them and I believe, are what lead them to unravel the mysteries, besides the obvious things like forensic evidence, crime scenes, etc. Sherlock Holmes was extremely intuitive and followed up on those leads...famous fictional detective. Strange techniques, but successful nevertheless.

First comes the thought (from Source Energy), then comes the thing (through that thought, also from Source Energy), then comes the "link" (through that thing, brought about by the thought, and also from Source Energy). Everything is...just one great big link. Life the way we live it is just all about distraction (which btw, is the name of my book (in progress)...lol. Whether we believe it or not is really irrelevant and it doesn't make it less viable...after all, the Law of Gravity works whether we believe it or not, right? I'm pretty sure the Law of Gravity came before any publication of it...it was already there, waiting to be discovered. Just like the answer to this mystery is. It's here, just waiting to be discovered.

This is totally and completely, MOO and belief.

(I must read that book, it sounds like it was a great read!)

Thanks Stan!

I love this realm of thinking, quite similar to my beliefs. There always seems to be a war between science (logic/proof/explanation) and the mystical (religion/spirituality/mystery), but I believe in both not one or the other.

What seems like 'hocus pocus' to some will eventually be proved by science, science just needs to catch up! There will eventually be a scientific explanation for the 'magic' in the world. And I don't necessarily mean religion really, could be light rays/sound waves or some undiscovered something.

They didn't know XRays existed in the 1700s, and sound waves only discovered in 1500 and to measure their speed took another 140 years in 1640... We have lots to discover still!

Just because you can't see it or prove it (yet) doesn't mean it's not felt or not there. JMO.

 

[Sillybilly]

Fictional or not, he demonstrated Reality. In which case, his creator was brilliant!

My fictional day consists of sitting on white sand beach in Maui, sipping Dubonet on the rocks with a twist, listening to Mozart.

My reality is I am sitting in a smoke filled room, slurping cold coffee, listening to the sound of my laptop's fan seizing up.

So I guess what I believe to be reality is irrelevant and I really am on that darn beach.

Aloha :biggrin: