Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #19

[SylviaC]

Staunch supporters of LE... stating that LE is honest, and etc.. some WSers theorize about possibilities the trio could be alive, or that the murderer could be someone different, or that there could be 2 murderers involved, and they are accused of saying LE are therefore incompetent and more. Now it is being asked if police were lying when they answered questions? It doesn't make sense.

Regarding the fire.. in the Tim Bosma case, it is believed he was incinerated beyond recognition, and first put through a 'chipper'.. but his wife still received a small box containing his remains. In this case there were no remains given and no statement from police that remains believed to be the trio were found. If LE can identify TB's remains, and if they can say the remains of all of these people burned were found, then they should also be able to state that the trio was found, if their remains were indeed found.

Could it be that the victims were indeed burned in a fire, but their remains (ashes, bone fragments, teeth, etc.) were removed from the fire pit and disposed of elsewhere? This would explain the comment about searchers not knowing what they were looking for. Perhaps trace amounts of DNA were found in the fire pit - enough to confirm that they must be deceased (not just from hair or fingernails) but not enough to say that the remains had been found. The search for remains continues, but without information about where to search, it becomes a very difficult endeavour. Seems like a plausible theory IMO.

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

Very true LL, we don't know what was being cleaned off the walls, could've been the purple finger print powder (or whatever it's called, I forget too!)

IIRC, with the McStay case, there was a half eat bowl of cereal (or food, something to that effect) so LE knew they left in a hurry, and it was suspicious. Could've happened here too if JO saw something that was out of character for her parents (a door open, open basement window, signs of struggle, etc.)

It is human nature not to call Police for every little thing... she wouldn't have known if they went for a walk or to a park... you eliminate all possibilities before calling Police. If someone was in "medical distress", then it becomes a little more obvious.

 

[Sillybilly]

I wonder how soon after DG's arrest that LE started looking into possibilities of him having any connection to the murder of Helena Mihaljevic. From what I can see, it was first reported in MSM July 24:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1472714/p...as-garland-has-links-to-other-violent-crimes/

This pic was taken July 15 outside the L home:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ge/I0000YsCJDO0CfQc+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Just wondering if CM knew the Ls personally or was there simply as a community member paying respects ... and whether she is related to Helena and knew that DG was also being investigated wrt Helena's murder.

 

[Sillybilly]

Very true LL, we don't know what was being cleaned off the walls, could've been the purple finger print powder (or whatever it's called, I forget too!)

IIRC, with the McStay case, there was a half eat bowl of cereal (or food, something to that effect) so LE knew they left in a hurry, and it was suspicious. Could've happened here too if JO saw something that was out of character for her parents (a door open, open basement window, signs of struggle, etc.)

IMO, the fact LE used the term 'violent' would indicate something more than the trio simply 'missing' was observed. JO was in the house just hours before and, even with the yard sale / moving activities, would have had a pretty good idea of how it looked those few hours earlier.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I wonder how soon after DG's arrest that LE started looking into possibilities of him having any connection to the murder of Helena Mihaljevic. From what I can see, it was first reported in MSM July 24:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1472714/p...as-garland-has-links-to-other-violent-crimes/

This pic was taken July 15 outside the L home:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ge/I0000YsCJDO0CfQc+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Just wondering if CM knew the Ls personally or was there simply as a community member paying respects ... and whether she is related to Helena and knew that DG was also being investigated wrt Helena's murder.

I did some minor sleuthing, and I found a sister for Helena who's name is Jasmine/Jasmin (I think it's Jasmin) but a different last name from Helena's (initials JP, same last name as movie star Brad P, and then add 'man'). Helena's son name was Kyle I think (same last name as her sister, the P last name). Her obit mentions only one sister, so must be JP. I can't find any Ls or Garlands on JP's FB friends list.

I'm curious to do more sleuthing of HM, as as you stated - I wonder if she knew the Ls? Maybe she's a link somehow between them other than the patent? Or maybe not, could be an interesting angle.

If it's believed the killer of HM kept the cell phone, sounds like they might've been obsessed or knew her personally.

 

[news.talk]

I did some minor sleuthing, and I found a sister for Helena who's name is Jasmine but a different last name from Helena's (initials JP, same last name as movie star Brad P, and then add 'man'). Helena's son name was Kyle I think (unsure of last name).

I'm curious to do more sleuthing of HM, as as you stated - I wonder if she knew the Ls? Maybe she's a link somehow between them other than the patent? Or maybe not, could be an interesting angle.

If it's believed the killer of HM kept the cell phone, sounds like they might've been obsessed or knew her personally.

I think Otto did a map of where she was found in relation to the Garland acreage. It was REALLY close IIRC.

The one criminology fact that keeps creeping into my blonde brain, is that murderers don't generally start off with a pre-meditated, triple murder that includes a very innocent child. They generally have a history of violent crime or at the very least, some indication of possible violent psychopathy. Everything we have uncovered does not correlate to such predisposition.

I am glad this other possible case has been re-introduced here... Perhaps it is a viable and productive angle to sleuth.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I think Otto did a map of where she was found in relation to the Garland acreage. It was REALLY close IIRC.

The one criminology fact that keeps creeping into my blonde brain, is that murderers don't generally start off with a pre-meditated, triple murder that includes a very innocent child. They generally have a history of violent crime or at the very least, some indication of possible violent psychopathy. Everything we have uncovered does not correlate to such predisposition.

I am glad this other possible case has been re-introduced here... Perhaps it is a viable and productive angle to sleuth.

Glad to know I'm not the only blonde on here

ITA, seems strange to go from drug/fraud crimes years ago to full blown, hardcore premeditated murder like you said. The Parkhill crime seemed so brazen and probably for a reason, he's done it before.

The fact that LE even mentioned HM's name publicly as a possible link to DG says a lot considering they've been semi-quiet about other things.

I think if HM and DG knew each other, it was either a chance meeting or he liked her from afar/maybe stalked her a bit or they were friends but not a friendship everyone knew about. We should definitely sleuth this angle, might turn up a undiscovered motive.

 

[news.talk]

Glad to know I'm not the only blonde on here

ITA, seems strange to go from drug/fraud crimes years ago to full blown, hardcore premeditated murder like you said. The Parkhill crime seemed so brazen and probably for a reason, he's done it before.

The fact that LE even mentioned HM's name publicly as a possible link to DG says a lot considering they've been semi-quiet about other things.

I think if HM and DG knew each other, it was either a chance meeting or he liked her from afar/maybe stalked her a bit or they were friends but not a friendship everyone knew about. We should definitely sleuth this angle, might turn up a undiscovered motive.

It's funny, I always pictured you as a blonde - not in the stereotypical way.
[emoji12]

Either someone on a desktop with faster searching capabilities or Otto himself can re-post that map showing where she was found. IIRC, there were other bodies found close by as well.

 

[news.talk]

It is human nature not to call Police for every little thing... she wouldn't have known if they went for a walk or to a park... you eliminate all possibilities before calling Police. If someone was in "medical distress", then it becomes a little more obvious.

If I walked in to a home where there were 'signs of a violent incident,' somehow the last thing I would presume, is that they went for a walk to the park. I would be on the phone to 911 pretty darned fast!

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

If I walked in to a home where there were 'signs of a violent incident,' somehow the last thing I would presume, is that they went for a walk to the park. I would be on the phone to 911 pretty darned fast!

I was responding to the quote above my part. She was speculating that maybe there was a cereal bowl, an open door, something amiss, etc... and my point was all of that doesn't really prompt a call to Police... blood does, but I didn't want to be morbid.

 

[deugirtni]

It is possible that DG may not have committed murder. He has been accused, but we don't know yet. Whenever a person is accused of a heinous crime, LE would be remiss if they didn't check out the possibility the accused may have been involved in other, yet unsolved, crimes, kind of like when the accused was arrested in the Hannah Graham case, they found that his DNA may be connected with another unsolved rape case, for which that accused has now also been charged. LE already has clues from previous unsolved crimes and they try to find links to the accused. We haven't since heard that anything was found to link DG to HM, or any other murder, which linking in other cases seems to happen quickly. The fact that DG seems to have kept his nose clean since his 1992 and 1998 charges around 2 decades ago, and that those charges were minor in comparison to the new charges, and that no violence was involved, does lead one to wonder, doesn't it.

I think Otto did a map of where she was found in relation to the Garland acreage. It was REALLY close IIRC.

The one criminology fact that keeps creeping into my blonde brain, is that murderers don't generally start off with a pre-meditated, triple murder that includes a very innocent child. They generally have a history of violent crime or at the very least, some indication of possible violent psychopathy. Everything we have uncovered does not correlate to such predisposition.

I am glad this other possible case has been re-introduced here... Perhaps it is a viable and productive angle to sleuth.

 

[deugirtni]

.... The fact that LE even mentioned HM's name publicly as a possible link to DG says a lot considering they've been semi-quiet about other things.

I also think it says a lot, but not in the same way that you are thinking.

 

[LoisLane]

I wonder how soon after DG's arrest that LE started looking into possibilities of him having any connection to the murder of Helena Mihaljevic. From what I can see, it was first reported in MSM July 24:

http://globalnews.ca/news/1472714/p...as-garland-has-links-to-other-violent-crimes/

This pic was taken July 15 outside the L home:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...ge/I0000YsCJDO0CfQc+&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca

Just wondering if CM knew the Ls personally or was there simply as a community member paying respects ... and whether she is related to Helena and knew that DG was also being investigated wrt Helena's murder.

I recall we discussed the person paying her respects and the same name when it was announced, you can google for the websleuth discussion.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-250769-p-3.html

 

[Lalalacasbah]

It's funny, I always pictured you as a blonde - not in the stereotypical way.
[emoji12]

Either someone on a desktop with faster searching capabilities or Otto himself can re-post that map showing where she was found. IIRC, there were other bodies found close by as well.

What? You didn't picture me as Sam Elliott?! I tried to be incognito for awhile, but…..now I've surrendered to my blondeness and figure I'd go with Daenerys Targaryen, I can identify with her more than Sam lol!

Speaking of stereotypical, this might sound stereotypical of me to say but, I think it's quite common for certain men who might have a criminal backgrounds, lack social skills (probably with women also I'm assuming) and maybe even lack close and intimate relationships with people in general to frequent prostitutes.

I wonder if Helena was briefly involved in the sex trade at all? I know she had a job but wasn't showing up at work. I don't want to sound crass or assume every woman with a drug addiction does this, that's not what I think, I am just trying to make a connection. I think she was using crack which can lead people down a downward spiral fast.

And IIRC, didn't someone say HM also worked in the Pharmaceuticals or chemicals industry? This could also be a connection. Just brainstorming...

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I was responding to the quote above my part. She was speculating that maybe there was a cereal bowl, an open door, something amiss, etc... and my point was all of that doesn't really prompt a call to Police... blood does, but I didn't want to be morbid.

And I was actually responding to LL's post about some of us jumping the gun and assuming that it was blood being cleaned off the walls when it could've been something else (like the purple stuff).

It was more of a speculation of what would trigger JO to call 911 if there was no blood or only a small amount of blood, not enough to think a crime happened. So that's when I tossed out some things that might trigger someone to know something's off.

I don't want you two lovebirds fighting, so settle down!

 

[OutOfTheDarkness]

And I was actually responding to LL's post about some of us jumping the gun and assuming that it was blood being cleaned off the walls when it could've been something else (like the purple stuff).

It was more of a speculation of what would trigger JO to call 911 if there was no blood or only a small amount of blood, not enough to think a crime happened. So that's when I tossed out some things that might trigger someone to know something's off.

I don't want you two lovebirds fighting, so settle down!

Yes... that is why I pointed out that human instinct initially is denial. If you've ever had a loved one not come home on time, you begin to think up excuses, and maybe phone around where they may be.

We don't know if she went through that phase, but my understanding is that LE was there in the morning. LE doesn't usually respond quickly to messed up homes, or something is amiss... it's harsh, but true.

 

[Lalalacasbah]

I recall we discussed the person paying her respects and the same name when it was announced, you can google for the websleuth discussion.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-250769-p-3.html

Thanks LL, so easy how we forget and how topics are easily revisited on here!

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Yes... that is why I pointed out that human instinct initially is denial. If you've ever had a loved one not come home on time, you begin to think up excuses, and maybe phone around where they may be.

We don't know if she went through that phase, but my understanding is that LE was there in the morning. LE doesn't usially respond quickly to messed up homes, or something is amiss... it's harsh, but true.

So true. I'm convinced there was blood there, we heard that from the neighbor and I read it on another forum too (so considered rumor). We just don't know how much and where it was (walls?) It doesn't really matter though, it was enough to get JO to call 911

 

[Sillybilly]

I recall we discussed the person paying her respects and the same name when it was announced, you can google for the websleuth discussion.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-250769-p-3.html

Thanks Lois ... sorry, I must have been asleep in class back then.

 

[Sillybilly]

What? You didn't picture me as Sam Elliott?! I tried to be incognito for awhile, but…..now I've surrendered to my blondeness and figure I'd go with Daenerys Targaryen, I can identify with her more than Sam lol!

Speaking of stereotypical, this might sound stereotypical of me to say but, I think it's quite common for certain men who might have a criminal backgrounds, lack social skills (probably with women also I'm assuming) and maybe even lack close and intimate relationships with people in general to frequent prostitutes.

I wonder if Helena was briefly involved in the sex trade at all? I know she had a job but wasn't showing up at work. I don't want to sound crass or assume every woman with a drug addiction does this, that's not what I think, I am just trying to make a connection. I think she was using crack which can lead people down a downward spiral fast.

And IIRC, didn't someone say HM also worked in the Pharmaceuticals or chemicals industry? This could also be a connection. Just brainstorming...

from:
http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=ea30b158-07ed-4c89-a7ce-dffa730d8c19

Mihaljevic was "known on the streets" in Calgary, Webb said, but it's too soon to say whether she was involved in the sex trade or drugs.

According to friends/family, she was known to be crack addicted. Not much of a stretch into street work, but ??

http://www.canada.com/story.html?id=991e3730-c59a-4bf0-9829-e5033683ac4a

A friend told Pittman that Mihaljevic's MSN Messenger account remained active and would often indicate she was online. Pittman sent her sister e-mail messages, but never got a response.

I don't recall the reference to chemical industry .. she had worked in secretarial, waitressing, and had taken a legal assistant course at SAIT in 2004.